Poll: Are you a feminist?

[Ryotknife]

That's what lgbt's thought in California. Then Prop 8 happened.

not a gender issue

Short of said near extinction event, how?

actually in an extinction level event men would go back to the pre-feminist movement status extreme (which is a bad thing for humanity). So the only way men are ever going to be empowered in gender related issues is....for most of us to die.

Well that is freakin depressing.

And yet...."Be a man" is still a compliment. "You think like a man". Still a compliment. "Man up". Compliment.

Most of those are INSULTS. Specifically to shame another person. "you think like a man" is still not a compliment, its either taking pride in having compromised judgement or welcoming a woman as part of their group (even then it depends HEAVILY on context). It is like having pride in only having one leg, not quite a compliment.

if i walk up to a random woman and say "you think like a man" one of four things will happen:

1. she will be confused
2. she will walk slowly away
3. slap me
4. kick me in the balls

hmm....doesnt sound like the normal reaction to a compliment to me. okay, what about for men? if some random person came up to him and said that, he would either be confused or just walk away.

Oh, and masculine traits in the business and political world? THAT"S what's praised. Just a few campaign commercials at all levels proves that.



And I can find you articles that explain how a shooting of women at a trade school was a revolutionary action done to liberate men. You want to play stupid article vs. stupid article with me? Really? We can go there if you want, buddy...

Alright, where is that article located? Is it on a major network? Because i highly doubt even Fox news, as sickeningly biased as they are, would touch such an article. I suppose it is possible, afterall my opinion of that network is so low that it has passed through the earth's core and is now coming up on the opposite side of the world.

Except for 4chan and a good deal of the Xbox live populance. I can even show you some blog communities that are never short of members to agree. Just for an example, go google the "Vox Popoli" blog. Tell me that there's no young/middle aged who are insistent on revoking women's rights after that.

4chan and xbox live is also full of racists, anti-seminites, bigots, and people who hate babies. You can not point to it when those locations universally hate any and all things that are considered holy or good.

There are probably as many young/middle aged men who are insistent on revoking women's rights as there are neo nazis. You are seeing enemies in the middle of a graveyard. All major opponents to women's rights are either dead, have one foot in the grave, or are ghosts who would never publicly say anything in real life because they dont have the guts.

Is gender a hot topic here? yes, because it is the internet. Try to bring up a thoughtful gender debate in real life and men will either flee in terror or say whatever the one side wants them to hear regardless if they feel that way or not. In fact, you are more likely to see feminazi men in those debates than feminazi women because we feel that in gender debates we have to admit that we are universally horrible people who deserve to die a slow and painful death (and it is only through the good and merciful grace of women that our lives are spared and indeed given any sort of meaning) because THAT is the politically correct stance.

Who said you had to feel this way in gender debates? Seriously, i want names, I want laws, ect. You accuse ME of giving too much credence to the crazies, yet you're willing to give more than just creedence to the brain diseased Valerie Solanis school of thought.

actually, one of the biggest "revoke women's right to vote" is a major syndicated talk show host, Neal Boortz. He says it in public with no problemo.

Just because enemies, by the way, are in a graveyard, doesn't mean you don't fight them or fear what they can do if they ever get out.

points to every law that favors women over men.

points to ALL of the mainstream media that glamorizes women and demonizes men.

Never heard of Neal Boortz. Had to google him. Oh look, someone with one foot in the grave. Sadly, i doubt anyone that i know has ever heard of him either.

Ive heard you mention the Tea Party in "people who start shit and something happens." Pretty bad example as the Tea Party has done more damage to their OWN party and causes than who they are fighting against. One reason why Obama will get an easy re-election. Tea Party is the big reason why i have cut all ties to the republican party even though i was a moderate republican.

The Tea Party is probably the best thing to happen to the Democrats.

 

[Sindaine]

That's just what I've been told by the campus feminists.

Name em and quote em.

Nooope. Not touching that with a pole ten miles long, thanks.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt here, does that still mean a few mush headed misandrist dips=feminism?

If that's the case, then I can attribute your school of thought to Dick Masterson, who's followers number far more than some college wymyn group idiots.

Don't know their names, and I did quote 'em. And I'm just calling out the real world application of feminism as I've seen it.

 

[Ryotknife]

points to ALL of the mainstream media that glamorizes women and demonizes men.

Yet is still the same media where masculine traits are held up as glorified, and feminine traits are villified.

Tell me who gets more crap from society; a boy who dresses like a girl, or a girl who dresses like a boy.

Never heard of Neal Boortz. Had to google him. Oh look, someone with one foot in the grave.

And has an audience in the MILLIONS.

Ive heard you mention the Tea Party in "people who start shit and something happens." Pretty bad example as the Tea Party has done more damage to their OWN party and causes than who they are fighting against. One reason why Obama will get an easy re-election. Tea Party is the big reason why i have cut all ties to the republican party even though i was a moderate republican.

The Tea Party is probably the best thing to happen to the Democrats.

Explain the latest congressional elections then.

Explain why NO candidate openly identifies as a liberal.

how many politicians actively speak against womens rights? How many times in the past....say...DECADE...has there been ANY type of political movement against already established womens rights that reaches the house or senate? I cant think of a single event.

The ONLY opposition to women's rights has a LITTLE bit of power in the corporate world, whom do NOT have any power to take away your rights. They NEED politicians for that and if none of them are on board now, they will never be as it will only get more difficult to defend their position as time rolls on as the newer generation grows up. Not to mention corporations are not exactly endearing to the public right now.

As for the Tea Party, why do you think both conservatives and moderates are both pissed off at Mitt Romney? If it wasnt for Obamacare, Mitt would have literally zero chance of winning with his party that is so divided that the two sides hate each other almost as much as they hate the democrats or liberals. There is a small chance that Mitt might win, a very small chance, due to people believing that striking down obamacare might be worth electing in a terrible candidate for four years.

You say you are fighting a defensive war, but that implies that there is someone to defend against. Your opposition is completely defenseless. At best, AT THE VERY BEST, they can DELAY any more changes for a few years and even THAT is in the realm of science fiction. To overturn the changes is literally impossible at this point for them as they dont have any power left. If your opposition is in full retreat (hell not even, they have fully capitulated), then you are not in a defensive war.

Nearly every show, every movie in the past 7-10 years shows women as the superior gender. Now, go back a decade ago and a lot of shows showed the genders in equal light. That is what really irks me. In terms of women's right we are going forward at a good clip, but in terms of gender equality we are going BACKWARDS from where we were 10 years ago.

Seriously, at this point its either going to take a nuclear war, a zombie apocalypse, a giant rock smashing into earth, or the damn Illuminati throwing their support fully behind people like (scrolls up) Neal Boortz for women to have any legitimate worry about their rights that they have fought for being taken away.

There is not much you can do about the first three, but if you are worried about the Iluminatti possibly springing up and taking away your rights then start banging out a plan to create an Adina Jensen. Bam, crisis averted.

 

[Victoly]

"I shouldn't have to specify that I'm not a racist, because there shouldn't be racism, so instead I identify as a racist."

What the fuck?

Binary thinking at its best.

IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE ONE OF US YOU MUST BE ONE OF THEM!

Seriously?

I'm fairly confident you missed my point.

I'm not saying that anyone here is sexist because they refuse to identify as a feminist. I'm saying the logic being used to avoid identifying as a feminist is flawed. They think they shouldn't HAVE to fight for equality, so they're not going to. That doesn't make a lot of sense when you really think it through.

If that was your point, you're right I did miss it, sorry. I guess I was primed by reading moopig's odd arguments

On your actual intended point: Frankly fighting for it works anymore in the West, other parts of the world certainly still have opposition that needs genuine fighting but that's separate. I'm not so naive as to pretend that everyone is treated equally by everyone else but, to be honest you'd probably go a long way to solving current issues with sexism or racism by waiting a bit so that the older generations who were raised on this stuff to die off.

Most of what I see done under the banner of feminism is trivial (feel free to prove me wrong) and I don't think I'm alone in having a seriously bad impression of the movement as a whole.

I said earlier in the thread, in it's general sense feminism is a movement with a good cause but it can't/won't detach itself from a century's worth of bad press and one of the worst names you could possibly give to a movement attempting to promote equality.

To be fair, my original post was very sardonic, so it's partially my own fault that my point was missed.

I agree that the label "feminism" has gotten a bit of a bad wrap, but A) this thread gave us a definition to use for the poll and ensuing discussion, and that definition was a very broad/general one (unhindered by those negative connotations - which are fair to discuss, but they're a separate issue), and B) a bad connotation doesn't mean the phrase can't be reclaimed by good actions.

To re-iterate, what I took issue with was the following statement: "I believe I shouldn't have to specify that I want the sexes to be equal. It should be the default position." This is in response to a thread that is not "asking why/why not you are/are not a feminist; that topic has been overdone already." This was meant to be a fairly simple poll based not on alternative interpretations, but rather on the dictionary definitions posted, relating to advocating women's rights on the basis of equality of the sexes. So the very first response ignores the original text of the poll and proceeds to try to explain things away with some idealistic notions about what we "should" have to do in an ideal fairy-tale world.

Furthermore, not only was the response off-topic, it was also completely fucking ignorant. In the real world, believing in equality is not the default position - not by a fucking long shot - so it IS something you have to specify. Seeing a great number of people agree with that sort of statement frightens me, as it implies quite strongly that a lot of people are blind to the oppression women face both afar and in the "developed" world. It might be worse in the middle east, but that doesn't mean that there aren't also serious, pervasive problems in North America and Europe as well.

 

[afroebob]

I don't want all women and men to be treated as the same, but I still want all women to be able to have the choice to be treated the same as men. That means they should have every oppertunity and every (dis)advantage we have if they choose because that's what feminism is about, have the choice. The problem is that lots of people (self describing feminists included) think that for there to be equal rights everyone has to be on the same playing field, which is bullshit. Everyone should have the choice on what field to play on.