Poll: Are you religious?

[Torrasque]

Nope. I used to be a Lutheran until I started thinking for myself as a teen.
Been an atheist ever since.

 

[matoasters]

Speaking as an agnostic, an atheistic worldview doesn't prevent any of the shit that atheists seem to think only religion causes. Stalin, Mao... those names ring a bell?

The God Delusion? Ring a bell? Oh, that's because you haven't read it. Read it before mentioning redundant arguments like Stalin and Mao.

My point is simply that religion isn't the only thing that causes people to oppress other people, and a god isn't necessary to drive people to hate each other. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't make them any less capable of committing the same acts that have been committed by people of pretty much every belief system throughout history.

 

[eternal-chaplain]

Snip

Ohhhhhh i only read the first sentance before i posted..... am sorry, should i even post this? I guess i will but please no harm am not mad i guess am just an idiot and this hostile thread has me on tilt... again ssorry.

Hey that's quite alright. Admittedly I was a little bothered at first (that is, before your last paragraph), but when I saw that you had just misread my post I was fine again!

 

[Gibboniser]

I figure someone had to write the laws of physics, but I'm not Christian or any other "established" belief.

 

[matoasters]

My point is simply that religion isn't the only thing that causes people to oppress other people, and a god isn't necessary to drive people to hate each other. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't make them any less capable of committing the same acts that have been committed by people of pretty much every belief system throughout history.

Atheism isn't the solution in and of itself. Rational thinking is.

As (I think) I've told you before, and you've failed to reply, both Stalin and Mao had a completely irrational following based on them being more than men (indeed, gods among men). In the case of Stalin, of which I've read up much more about so I'll refrain from commenting on Mao further, his regime was completely - completely - the same in its principles as any theocracy ever to be established. Unchallengeable rule, witch hunts, miracles, the whole works.

Any destructive idea can be a problem so long as there are people stupid (whether by their own or by other people's doing) enough to follow it. Just so happens that most religions are at least in some ways just that.

You're right, I was trying to make the point that just because someone is an atheist does not mean that they are by any means a rational thinker.

 

[matoasters]

Speaking as an agnostic, an atheistic worldview doesn't prevent any of the shit that atheists seem to think only religion causes. Stalin, Mao... those names ring a bell?

The God Delusion? Ring a bell? Oh, that's because you haven't read it. Read it before mentioning redundant arguments like Stalin and Mao.

My point is simply that religion isn't the only thing that causes people to oppress other people, and a god isn't necessary to drive people to hate each other. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't make them any less capable of committing the same acts that have been committed by people of pretty much every belief system throughout history.

So your point is we should stop picking on religion, because there are plenty of other causes for genocide, murder, etc. Why single out religion. Is that your argument?

Religion isn't the only one, and God isn't necessary. That is entirely beside the point. Religion allows people to do crazy, unjustified things in the name of God - whichever one they happen to believe in. It isn't a defense of this to say 'oh but there are other beliefs that do this too!'.

As for atheism, why does everyone expect atheism to PREVENT things, or PROVE that things don't exist? You have it all backwards. Atheists don't have to prove a goddamn thing.

What atheists do need to prove is that atheism doesn't allow people to do the exact same shit as theism does, otherwise they should stop complaining about the fact that some people think differently than they do, and criticize religion based on genuine logic, as it should be, instead of pretending that not believing in a god makes you a better person. Most atheists I know don't do this, but the ones who do annoy me to no end.

 

[Fenn]

What a shocker, the vast majority said no. Would you expect anything else from an internet forum?

 

[cheese_wizington]

Nope. The world makes much more sense without religion.

 

[poleboy]

No.
I'm interested in mysticism, but dogmatic religion really, really, really rubs me the wrong way. And the combination (and unholy trinity) of nationalism, capitalism and organized religion sometimes makes me want to pick up the nearest sharp object and stab until there's no more soft things to stab.

 

[matoasters]

Speaking as an agnostic, an atheistic worldview doesn't prevent any of the shit that atheists seem to think only religion causes. Stalin, Mao... those names ring a bell?

The God Delusion? Ring a bell? Oh, that's because you haven't read it. Read it before mentioning redundant arguments like Stalin and Mao.

My point is simply that religion isn't the only thing that causes people to oppress other people, and a god isn't necessary to drive people to hate each other. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't make them any less capable of committing the same acts that have been committed by people of pretty much every belief system throughout history.

So your point is we should stop picking on religion, because there are plenty of other causes for genocide, murder, etc. Why single out religion. Is that your argument?

Religion isn't the only one, and God isn't necessary. That is entirely beside the point. Religion allows people to do crazy, unjustified things in the name of God - whichever one they happen to believe in. It isn't a defense of this to say 'oh but there are other beliefs that do this too!'.

As for atheism, why does everyone expect atheism to PREVENT things, or PROVE that things don't exist? You have it all backwards. Atheists don't have to prove a goddamn thing.

What atheists do need to prove is that atheism doesn't allow people to do the exact same shit as theism does, otherwise they should stop complaining about the fact that some people think differently than they do, and criticize religion based on genuine logic, as it should be, instead of pretending that not believing in a god makes you a better person. Most atheists I know don't do this, but the ones who do annoy me to no end.

No part of Atheism says that you can't go on a crazy genocide. What it doesn't let you do is find a justification for your war/atrocity/genocide in itself.

Yes it does. The whole view of religion as the root of all evil, can and has been used as a reason to attempt to wipe out religion in several countries, for the sake of cleansing the "evils" of religion from the nation. And I'm not saying religion is any better. It's just that neither is atheism, in that regard.

 

[Chelsizzle]

Messianic Jew here.

Pretty laid back about my beliefs though.

 

[KrisKing]

What Ricky Gervais says

 

[brom0220]

I stared out somewhat skeptical of the whole "divine being crated the universe from nothing on a whim" but then the fact that most of the science types I've asked about the origin of the universe can never come up with anything any more reasonable for the origin of matter or the origin of life has (among other things) caused me to follow the same path as my parents and be a christian, plus I figure there's always Pascal's Wager so its a win-win for me. The irony is that so many people here say that they don't like religion because its followers are pushy I have only ever had the opposite experience, I had several atheists rant at me and tell me i'm a moron if I don't agree with them but the church types have never been anything but nice.

The ignorance (as in, lack of knowledge, often confused for stupidity, it is possible to not know about something yet still be quite intelligent after all,) of a few people does not mean that it is reasonable to believe in a god without evidence to support its existence. Also, you are very lucky if you have only met the nice church types, but don't let that fool you into thinking that the pushy types don't exist. The history of mankind is riddled with atrocities committed in the name of religion. And for every atheist that condemns religious people as complete morons, there are many more that are just fine with people believing what they want to believe, provided they don't try to force others to agree with and accept their beliefs. Also, the sheer number of different religions makes Pascal's Wager pointless. What if when you die you meet Buddha or Vishnu instead of God?

1. since the "ignorant" have failed to enlighten me what is your theory on the origin of matter that make so much more sense than than a divine being (not trying to demand you see things my way just curious)
2. I think that I've met more pushy atheists because there are more of them, how many times have you seen a news story about atheists wanting legal action because they saw something vaguely religious and it "offended" them? how many times have you seen that same story reversed?
3. the history of man is also full of atrocities committed in the name of man, and of those committed in the name of religion were often little more than evil men using their own manipulated version of a religion as at tool to get what they want
4. I mention Pascal's Wager because out of all the religions I've studied Christianity is by far the one with the most evidence of being the truth

my captcha was Hickey ofaining O_O somehow that sounds nasty

1. I am, sadly, not far enough in my studies to count myself as an authority on the creation of the universe, so until evidence proves otherwise, I believe the Big Bang Theory is correct. As for what happened before the Big Bang, I am not knowledgeable about "M" Theory, (or in other words I am ignorant concerning "M" Theory ) so I would suggest you read up on it if you have the time, which I sadly don't. As a recently declared physics major, it will probably come up in one of my classes a few years from now. Before you ask me what evidence there is in support of the Big Bang, I will leave you a few links to some videos of Neil deGrasse Tyson, one of the world's top astrophysicists, a man far more enlightened than me, and far from ignorant on the matter, spelling out some of the evidence science has collected over the years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSU3SK7UFQM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TZR84Xs_z4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDghQjuqLnI&feature=related

Turns out the Big Bang Theory is only a theory in the same sense gravity is. The same could be said of evolution. I guess my point is, if you don't know something, ask someone who does, if no one does, try to figure it out on your own. You may have just ended up asking the wrong scientists after all.

2. I have seen stories of people wanting legal action because of religious symbols, but the reason I've seen used most often is that the symbols would offend people of other religions as well as atheists. I haven't even heard of stories like that in a long time though. Now, I mostly get wind of stories about people protesting that schools aren't teaching creationism in science class or something like that. Which brings me to your second question. I've seen the reverse quite a bit, but I've never even heard of atheists picketing or protesting outside of a church or synagogue or other religious institution. Most of the atheists I've heard of mainly want to keep religion separated from science and politics. And when you consider all of the hatred projected towards Islam and its followers over the last couple of years, that's a good idea. Maybe there are just more pushy atheists in your area, but when you consider that there are less atheists than religious people overall, I doubt you would find that there are more pushy atheists in the world than pushy religious people in the world.

3. Touche, salesman. Human nature means atrocities will be committed with or without religion, and like science or knowledge in general, religion can be used for good or evil. Personally, I find religion unnecessary for morality, as you don't have to be religious to do good or bad in the world. This does not change the fact that religion is still a terrifyingly effective tool for manipulating people into doing evil. To quote one of my favorite fictional characters: "There's nothing worse than a monster that thinks he's right with God." I suppose the same could be said of science, maybe, but science does more good for the world, and whatever good religion does (charities, preaching tolerance and love, etc.), it is entirely possible to accomplish without praying to a god, dividing people into believers and non-believers, or going to a place of worship on a weekly basis. While removing religion wouldn't stop every war or atrocity in the world, it would lessen the overall suffering and death of the human race by quite a bit, or at least remove a very effective tool used for evil from the hands of evil men and make sure they have a harder time getting what they want. Removing science on the other hand, would be very bad for the world, and would bring back the Dark Ages. I guess the main problem I have with religion is that most of its various tenets can be reduced to "Don't be a dick." and "If you don't believe in the same imaginary friend I do, you will burn for all eternity regardless of how wonderful a person you are and how much good you did for the world." The first one is basic human decency, which you don't need any god for, and the second one just makes whatever deity is in charge look like a dick, which clashes with the loving, just, understanding, merciful God I used to hear about growing up. And let's face it, if there is a God, and he is a dick, he doesn't deserve worship, he deserves to be held accountable for his misdeeds and should atone for them.

4. I am curious as to what evidence you have of Christianity being closest to the truth. Science has disproved much of the Bible, which contradicts itself on many occasions, and even if you are not supposed to take the Bible literally, shouldn't the foundational document for billions of people worldwide be a lot less flawed? I guess you didn't watch the videos I left either, because as the guy who makes them points out, Pascal's Wager is basically like taking out a fire insurance policy on your soul, and wouldn't an all-knowing God know you were just playing it safe instead of truly believing in him?

I'm sorry if I've come across as hostile or insulting at all. I have been giving this topic a lot of thought lately and I am very curious as to what evidence there is to prove any of Earth's current religions right. I don't mean to offend.

On a different note, do you know how to embed videos? I'm getting tired of just copy/pasting links.

Wow, last time I looked at this thread it had only 6 pages.

 

[matoasters]

Speaking as an agnostic, an atheistic worldview doesn't prevent any of the shit that atheists seem to think only religion causes. Stalin, Mao... those names ring a bell?

The God Delusion? Ring a bell? Oh, that's because you haven't read it. Read it before mentioning redundant arguments like Stalin and Mao.

My point is simply that religion isn't the only thing that causes people to oppress other people, and a god isn't necessary to drive people to hate each other. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't make them any less capable of committing the same acts that have been committed by people of pretty much every belief system throughout history.

So your point is we should stop picking on religion, because there are plenty of other causes for genocide, murder, etc. Why single out religion. Is that your argument?

Religion isn't the only one, and God isn't necessary. That is entirely beside the point. Religion allows people to do crazy, unjustified things in the name of God - whichever one they happen to believe in. It isn't a defense of this to say 'oh but there are other beliefs that do this too!'.

As for atheism, why does everyone expect atheism to PREVENT things, or PROVE that things don't exist? You have it all backwards. Atheists don't have to prove a goddamn thing.

What atheists do need to prove is that atheism doesn't allow people to do the exact same shit as theism does, otherwise they should stop complaining about the fact that some people think differently than they do, and criticize religion based on genuine logic, as it should be, instead of pretending that not believing in a god makes you a better person. Most atheists I know don't do this, but the ones who do annoy me to no end.

Atheists do not need to prove that Atheism doesn't allow people do to terrible things. Atheism isn't a means by which to live your life - it's merely a statement which says I Do Not Believe In God. It is for Theists to prove that their way of living is better - and it is not.

Examples - in what way does atheism say:

- you cannot be homosexual (Christianity, Islam, etc)

- women should be stoned to death if they contradict their husbands (Islam, etc)

- people who do not believe in your god can and should be killed (Christianity, Islam, etc)

- if you kill people for your god you will be rewarded in heaven (Islam)

- women should have their genitals cut during their youth in order to reduce sexual pleasure and in some cases make sex painful (Islam, African religion/culture, etc)

and so on, and so on?

The answer is: it says none of those things. Logical enough for you?

Yes it does. The whole view of religion as the root of all evil, can and has been used as a reason to attempt to wipe out religion in several countries, for the sake of cleansing the "evils" of religion from the nation. And I'm not saying religion is any better. It's just that neither is atheism, in that regard.

Source.

So you're saying religion is the root of all evil and should be wiped out? Hey, you sound like the Spanish Inquisition talking about non-Christians. Bet you weren't EXPECTING that, eh?
As for source, look up the cultural revolution. Most communist regimes weren't particularly friendly to religion.

 

[GundamSentinel]

Technically I'm agnostic, but in practice that mostly boils down to being an atheist.