Poll: Best fighting game franchise?
- Thread starter Odysseous2
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I love Super Smash Bros. because it's simple to play yet surprisingly deep. However, lately I've been gravitating toward Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and my latest obsession is Touhou Hisoutensoku. I played Hisoutensoku for many hours so far today.
Firstly i have read all of your posts on this thread and to be quite honest you are coming across as a bit of a dick (no offence intended). for example, when you were talking about the so called fighting game 'experts'. so basically if someone plays a game at the very high levels then whatever their opinion is of games in the genre is absolute fact. well i guess that means that stuff i say about fps' is fact then (so basically cod is a pos). this is obviously not fact because it is simply my own opinion.Dreiko said:
on to what makes games the so called 'best' of the genre. like i said in my previous post quality of games is purely subjective. everyones idea of what makes the best game of a genre and what game is closest to that will be different. it doesnt make people wrong for thinking a more obscure title is that or if the think a vastly popular game does that. so it is not fair for you to be discrediting peoples opinions when they say that "Mortal Kombat which actually is probably one of the deepest games...atleast story wise." and then you just say that they are wrong and basically imply that what they are saying means nothing at all. which i beleive is totally unfair because the point of discussions like this is to state your own opinion on the subject matter.
also if you can point me to a place where i can get these games which you think are the best relatively cheaply then i will see just how good these games are.
black_knight1337 said:
You're confusing me expressing opinions with me stating facts.
Fact: Japanese game makers invite expert players to play experimental versions of their games and then change their games depending on the things these experts tell them.
Considering the above fact, how can you come to any OTHER conclusion? What would be your thought patter if you did? I'm legitimately curious here. My logic and common sense drove me to what I said, not my opinion.
As for the story element, simply put, the comment was about storymode as it relates to "content", a finite thing which can be measured and tallied. A simple mathematical observation reveals the content of blazblue's storymode as being considerably denser, more complex and varied. I stated as much, personal opinion was never any part of it thus I wasn't actually being in that unprovable state of potential correctness or not of people expressing opinions. It was merely a factual statement.
Blazblue:Continuum Shift should be $18 on gamespot new, guilty gear xx:accent core+ (the most up to date version) is relatively old and you should get the ps2 version but I wouldn't know where to go to find it offline, you should be able to order it online on amazon or something though.
I actually like the latest Mortal Kombat despite having a huge collection of fighting games that are considered to be much superior on the competitive scene to MK. And that's mainly due to the accessibility for complete fighting game newbies. The combos are easy to pull as well as the X-Rays and Fatalities. However the persistent gore ruin the aesthetics of the game, though I don't mind clothes getting torn apart, specially on the ladies (>.>).
UFC 2010 is pretty fun as well, mainly for some cheap laughs. Heh, two men ... hugging each other ... and changing positions ... a lot ... > . >
UFC 2010 is pretty fun as well, mainly for some cheap laughs. Heh, two men ... hugging each other ... and changing positions ... a lot ... > . >
yes that is a fact however that still does not make their opinion law. in these testing groups the developers ask for their opinions and based on these opinions make minor alterations to their game. it does not mean that whatever they think of the genre they are so called experts of is absolute fact.Dreiko said:
as for the part about the story mode it wasn't to do with the amount of content it was about depth. just because a game has a short story mode does not mean that it does not have depth. and once again it was that person's opinion of it. if they had of said that it had the longest story or the most content in a story then fair enough but they didn't they said that it was deep.
i might have a look around and see if i can grab a copy of them.
It was an expression, it wasn't meant to be taken literally. The point of it was to prove that there IS a hierarchy of opinions, that some DO matter more than others and that due to that the other things I have been saying which other people's "opinions" disagreed with were still correct.black_knight1337 said:
I didn't say it was "longer", I said it was "denser and more complex", the difference being that something denser may have an equal length as something else but in the same time-span it presents more ideas, more elements, more events, more theories, more possibilities, in general more content. I never said that the story just drags on and on, only that it's much more packed with cool stuff, which again is something you can tally and is what depth stems out of.
Perception of depth is something I purposefully never touched upon, I never stated that the person didn't THINK MK's story was deep, I'm positive that he thought as much otherwise he wouldn't have said so, I just said that it wasn't the deepest by presenting him with an alternative which I was pretty sure he had not actually tried out. Not as to override his statement but to simply help him supplement it through experiencing the other one too.
I don't think there's a best really. I had to pick my favourite, that's more likely what it's gonna come down to anyways. I'll just stick to giving my opinions on 3 games instead.
For a competetive fighting game experience, I would say street fighter. This is because it's popular and easy to get into, but with enough complexity and balance for it to remain a competetive fighting game. Sure, it's a lot easier to defend yourself now (focus attacks, reversals) and there are some bouts of imbalance (yun and fei long come to mind currently), but honestly, no fighting game is perfect, and street fighter has a nice aesthetic and doesn't go heavily into the anime artstyle that most extremely competetive fighters have. It's a great game for the western playerbase as well as the eastern one (of course). This is the one I voted for.
SSB is probably the best casual fighter out there. You can't really say that it's not a fighter. It has the core rule that every fighting game has, which is to fight the opponent. They had to greatly sacrifice balancing, and the game definately has core problems with its design that causes major imbalance (in ALL of the games, the main one would be attack priorities), in competetive play, but that doesn't matter in casual play anyways, because they play what they want, these imbalances don't matter in low level play.
MK I definately think is worth mentioning too, it's definately good for what it does, providing visceral play. I think it's worth a mention because I think that's the only thing it's got going for it. Sorry, it's just a poorly designed fighter. I mean, UMK3 was a high point (IMO), and then the creators of MK just made crap over and over again. The only community within the game was online. MK9 has tried very hard to change that. They did make a lot of changes, pretty much all of them for the better, but I personally think it only barely made it to be a competetive game. At least when it first came out that was the case. There have been several patches to fix the gameplay, but will it be enough? Or will the game sink back to having a online only community again?
The other fighting games have their merits, I don't feel like giving my opinion on them though, I think I have said too much already. However I don't think there really is a best game, because certain people want certain things in fighting games.
However I think games that strive for competetive gameplay (especially offline tournaments) inherently have an advantage over other fighters, save for ones that give party elements. This is because there is the option for serious play AND competetive play.
For a competetive fighting game experience, I would say street fighter. This is because it's popular and easy to get into, but with enough complexity and balance for it to remain a competetive fighting game. Sure, it's a lot easier to defend yourself now (focus attacks, reversals) and there are some bouts of imbalance (yun and fei long come to mind currently), but honestly, no fighting game is perfect, and street fighter has a nice aesthetic and doesn't go heavily into the anime artstyle that most extremely competetive fighters have. It's a great game for the western playerbase as well as the eastern one (of course). This is the one I voted for.
SSB is probably the best casual fighter out there. You can't really say that it's not a fighter. It has the core rule that every fighting game has, which is to fight the opponent. They had to greatly sacrifice balancing, and the game definately has core problems with its design that causes major imbalance (in ALL of the games, the main one would be attack priorities), in competetive play, but that doesn't matter in casual play anyways, because they play what they want, these imbalances don't matter in low level play.
MK I definately think is worth mentioning too, it's definately good for what it does, providing visceral play. I think it's worth a mention because I think that's the only thing it's got going for it. Sorry, it's just a poorly designed fighter. I mean, UMK3 was a high point (IMO), and then the creators of MK just made crap over and over again. The only community within the game was online. MK9 has tried very hard to change that. They did make a lot of changes, pretty much all of them for the better, but I personally think it only barely made it to be a competetive game. At least when it first came out that was the case. There have been several patches to fix the gameplay, but will it be enough? Or will the game sink back to having a online only community again?
The other fighting games have their merits, I don't feel like giving my opinion on them though, I think I have said too much already. However I don't think there really is a best game, because certain people want certain things in fighting games.
However I think games that strive for competetive gameplay (especially offline tournaments) inherently have an advantage over other fighters, save for ones that give party elements. This is because there is the option for serious play AND competetive play.
^
Why exactly a fighting game being "too anime" is a bad thing as far as "the west" is concerned? Anime isn't only liked in Japan and most fighter fans do like the anime-aspect of the games.
Hell, Akuma turned super saiyan in Arcade Edition, id's say a demon with blue aura and hovering beads around him smashing you with evil energy that makes Japanese letters appear is as close to "anime-like aesthetic" as you can get really.
I mean look at him, they even gave him the electricity currents from Super Saiyan 2 lol.
Why exactly a fighting game being "too anime" is a bad thing as far as "the west" is concerned? Anime isn't only liked in Japan and most fighter fans do like the anime-aspect of the games.
Hell, Akuma turned super saiyan in Arcade Edition, id's say a demon with blue aura and hovering beads around him smashing you with evil energy that makes Japanese letters appear is as close to "anime-like aesthetic" as you can get really.
I mean look at him, they even gave him the electricity currents from Super Saiyan 2 lol.
Depth, complexity, highly competitive drive, an interesting story and uniqueness.AngloDoom said:
So Sub-zero running around hitting other people(what he does in MK), isn't a proper MK game, but a game merely featuring characters that do absolutely nothing of what they do in their main franchise is a proper fighting game? I'm confused.Dreiko said:
OT: Soul Calibur is boss, cuz as wonderful as most of the list is (SF bores me now), SC takes a severe break within it's own format. In my experience, there's only so different a feel between different kinds of kicks and punches. Wheres SC's makes everyone very different(minus the clones) and throws in the fantastical stuff, like Cervantes teleporting and all that. The result is deep, with lots of fun and variety and good pacing, but not feeling ridiculous, aside from Voldo of course. He literally attacks you with his junk on several occasions, which is never a good start to the day. ; ;
Reading comprehension fail.Silenttalker22 said:
The dead or alive game mention was a reply to his challenging me to find a fighting game without any fighting in it. Need that context man.
Oh and hitting people in a 2D sidescroller game like Castlevania isn't the same as doing that in a fighting game, even if all the sprites are copied and pasted and all the moves are the same.
King of Fighters is my favorite franchise, but Arcana Heart for the PS2 is probably my favorite fighting game. So much depth and customization.
For 3D fighting games, Dead or Alive has a spectacular combat system built around natural, cinematic combos and reversals. It looks great and feels great, and screw those who see DoA as softcore porn (and by that, I also mean "screw Team Ninja, those morons who thought a cheesecake beach volleyball game was a good use of the DoA characters.")
King of Fighters '98 was a really cool game. It had environments that changed based upon what round of the battle you were fighting. That was a really nice touch, and more games should do that.
For 3D fighting games, Dead or Alive has a spectacular combat system built around natural, cinematic combos and reversals. It looks great and feels great, and screw those who see DoA as softcore porn (and by that, I also mean "screw Team Ninja, those morons who thought a cheesecake beach volleyball game was a good use of the DoA characters.")
King of Fighters '98 was a really cool game. It had environments that changed based upon what round of the battle you were fighting. That was a really nice touch, and more games should do that.
I have never been a fan of fighters, but I have always loved the gameplay found in the Guilty Gear series. Almost chaotic. Favorite fighter from the past several years has most definitely been BlazBlue, even more than Continuim Shift.
The only other series to waste a great deal of my time was DarkStalkers. And yes, I do enjoy the occasional Marvel vs. Capcom, but it's not quite the same. If I had to choose a fighter that is easily found at any retail store right now, I would definitely grab MvC 3.
The only other series to waste a great deal of my time was DarkStalkers. And yes, I do enjoy the occasional Marvel vs. Capcom, but it's not quite the same. If I had to choose a fighter that is easily found at any retail store right now, I would definitely grab MvC 3.
Please expand on depth, because I don't quite understand what you mean by that.Dreiko said:
Complexity - I think completely making a different way to fight, including items, team-battle, point-scoring battles, boss-battles, and still giving you the option to fight like in other fighting games with hit-points is a lot more complex than most games I've played of the genre. Added to that characters with certain rules that affect them (I fall faster, I get stronger as I get damaged, most of my attacks rely on chance, I can take other's abilities) and it's a lot more complex...and then you have the ability to turn off half the rules I mentioned to change your game to fight exactly how you want.
Complexity I don't quite understand either. I don't see how many fighting games are 'complex' with he exception of games that give you lengthy combos from a drop-down menu, rather than your own creations you make up on the spot.
Highly competitive drive is a weird thing to argue. My friends and I play the game endlessly and enjoy it, racking up hours of gameplay a day most times me play it. Other people won't.
Interesting story I've not actually encountered on a fighting game. I actually found the story scene in Brawl to be a lot more entertaining than any other fighting game I've personally encountered. Karate-man out for revenge/ultimate weapon/ultimate life-form seems to be the theme of many other fighting games.
Uniqueness? I honestly can't think of a fighting game with much more uniqueness. Half the time I can't tell if people are playing Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Street Fighter or sometimes even Mortal Kombat until someone burps a fireball.