Poll: Capitalism or Communism?
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Capitalism. Or rather a mix of the Capitalism and Socialism. In pure socialist countries the people may not be starving. However, Eastern Europe was a continent of people who had no hopes, dreams or aspirations.
Workers with dreams and goals work harder than workers whose sole purpose it is to work. Even if the dream is only an illusion. Of course, with pure capitalism we encounter the same problems as eventually large companies will dominate and the average Joe won't stand a chance of competing.
Workers with dreams and goals work harder than workers whose sole purpose it is to work. Even if the dream is only an illusion. Of course, with pure capitalism we encounter the same problems as eventually large companies will dominate and the average Joe won't stand a chance of competing.
Not many Capitalist countries either. Oligarchies, Monarchies and Republics, but no Capitalist societies.Jak23 said:
Very few people have, if any. Technically, Russia was Stalinist, not Socialist, not Communist. China is Capitalist, not Socialist, not Communist, Cuba was just as Fascist as Communist, and not a single European state owned by Russia was Communist. They all call themselves communist to pacify the working population.Jak23 said:
If the communism that was on that above poll was TRUE Communism- which hasnt ever existed yet -then i would vote for that.
Unfortunately, True communism is impossible, and would never ever work in a modern world. Ever.
If it would, i would be all for it, though.
Capitalism is a horrible, horrible system, but its all we got.
Communism NEVER EXSISTED...and NEVER WILL.... What people confuse with Communism they comfuse it with Socialism.... Not the same really. Communism=Utopian Society with no goverment...Sounds Sexyon paper by never worked though it did in Really Small Communities.....
I'm more into a Market Driven Economy...Supply and deman and what not..
I'm more into a Market Driven Economy...Supply and deman and what not..
It would be interesting to retry communism sense we now have supercomputers that could micro-manage every aspect of the economy. I'd still go for capitalism because in its current state, it works well enough.
Capitalism; where the rich get richer, and the poor get richer.
but seriously. Property rights are pretty damn important.
but seriously. Property rights are pretty damn important.
The problem with most modern political theory is that we seem to be determined to say "x or y, nothing in between". This wild fluxuation between extremes does not work - if you look at the current economic situation in the United States right now, for example, where the wealth of 96 million Americans is equal to the wealth of a grand total of 6 members of the Walton family, you see a continuing pattern of poverty caused by accumulation of wealth and power at the top. Without government regulation and (horrors!) socialist policies, that accumulation continues ad infinitum.
On the other hand, go too far in the socialist bent (specifically, fly right into communist territory) and you end up with a system that is a: incredibly easy to manipulate and b: results in the stagnation of society, due to a lack of incentives to work or advance culture, science, art, etc, on the individual level. Pure government control does not and cannot work as well as allowing some level of independence - the question is how much is too much, how little is too little.
So, my long answer to the poll is, I refuse to answer the poll as it only propagates this idea of x or y, and damn the compromise position that may work better if only because is cannot be easily quantified in a single sentence.
On the other hand, go too far in the socialist bent (specifically, fly right into communist territory) and you end up with a system that is a: incredibly easy to manipulate and b: results in the stagnation of society, due to a lack of incentives to work or advance culture, science, art, etc, on the individual level. Pure government control does not and cannot work as well as allowing some level of independence - the question is how much is too much, how little is too little.
So, my long answer to the poll is, I refuse to answer the poll as it only propagates this idea of x or y, and damn the compromise position that may work better if only because is cannot be easily quantified in a single sentence.
In a nutshell.Kopikatsu said:
Democratic socialism is like a middle ground. Just ask the Scandinavians. They live in real democratic socialist countries and they're the richest and most developed (culturally) countries in the world. They actually have internet as human right in Sweden! How awesome is that?
Well, seeing as how I was raised in a capitalistic country, I sort of feel inclined to vote for capitalism.
Communism is great in theory. Too bad people are bastard covered bastards with bastard fillings.
Communism is a good ideal to have, but compared to capitalism it's incredibly weak, and flimsy. It can take just one man to act out of line, or try to be ambitious for communism to come crumbling to it's knees. See Russia. China has only succeeded through questionable social experiments and embracing capitalism as a quite integral support beam.
Capitalism itself is great for the individual. It works for the worthy, and the ones who know how the system works. Which sounds a good deal in theory, why shouldn't the ones who deserve it get what they want right?
Well, it WOULD make sense, until you figure out that not everyone can get worthy, no matter how worthy they actually are. And capitalism needs middle classes and lower classes, they are absolutely essential to making a capitalist country work, yet they get so much schtick for being either less intelligent, less well off or even less ambitious. Capitalism is basically an astronaut poking his air supply with a blowtorch. He needs it if he wants to survive, but he can never forgive it for sleeping with his wife... Wait...
Basically capitalism is extremely divided. You have massive winners, and massive losers. With communism, if you've done it right, which seems unlikely, means that everyone will correlate somewhere in the middle of the 'content' zone.
Communism is a good ideal to have, but compared to capitalism it's incredibly weak, and flimsy. It can take just one man to act out of line, or try to be ambitious for communism to come crumbling to it's knees. See Russia. China has only succeeded through questionable social experiments and embracing capitalism as a quite integral support beam.
Capitalism itself is great for the individual. It works for the worthy, and the ones who know how the system works. Which sounds a good deal in theory, why shouldn't the ones who deserve it get what they want right?
Well, it WOULD make sense, until you figure out that not everyone can get worthy, no matter how worthy they actually are. And capitalism needs middle classes and lower classes, they are absolutely essential to making a capitalist country work, yet they get so much schtick for being either less intelligent, less well off or even less ambitious. Capitalism is basically an astronaut poking his air supply with a blowtorch. He needs it if he wants to survive, but he can never forgive it for sleeping with his wife... Wait...
Basically capitalism is extremely divided. You have massive winners, and massive losers. With communism, if you've done it right, which seems unlikely, means that everyone will correlate somewhere in the middle of the 'content' zone.
I voted Capitalism, simply because eventually a few philanthropists will give back what they had taken, but is impossible in a "Communist" (the governmental form, not the economic theory) society.
The thing is, I much prefer Socialism, because, while I like being able to advance up the ladder at my own pace, I also want to start off on an even footing with my neighbor, with his neighbors, etc. Basic Socialism is different from basic Communism, however, you simply cannot have a pure economic system. You cannot have a purely Capitalist system, as eventually our human compassion will kick in and we'll say "Protect the workers!" or a purely Communist system, as eventually our human competitiveness will kick in and we'll say "Give me more shit I don't need so I can show off!" Socialism makes sure to provide all with the basic means to start off. As in, a poor person need not stay poor simply because he was born so. The government is tasked with paying for housing, utilities, education, and healthcare. That doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that they'll pay for it forever. Just until you don't need it anymore. That doesn't mean you won't still pay taxes, you'll just have a larger house of your own.
What we have here in America is far similar to Socialism that it is to Capitalism, however, it's not great, or even good, as some people still think we're Capitalists, and refuse to pass any laws that make us "Communist" (See: Healthcare, Education), and refuse to raise taxes, even though the potential revenue is just the windfall we need to get the government back on its feet.
Side Note: Eff you, you ARE going to pay taxes anyway. Better your tax money go to furthering human progress than lining a politician's back pocket, eh?
The thing is, I much prefer Socialism, because, while I like being able to advance up the ladder at my own pace, I also want to start off on an even footing with my neighbor, with his neighbors, etc. Basic Socialism is different from basic Communism, however, you simply cannot have a pure economic system. You cannot have a purely Capitalist system, as eventually our human compassion will kick in and we'll say "Protect the workers!" or a purely Communist system, as eventually our human competitiveness will kick in and we'll say "Give me more shit I don't need so I can show off!" Socialism makes sure to provide all with the basic means to start off. As in, a poor person need not stay poor simply because he was born so. The government is tasked with paying for housing, utilities, education, and healthcare. That doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that they'll pay for it forever. Just until you don't need it anymore. That doesn't mean you won't still pay taxes, you'll just have a larger house of your own.
What we have here in America is far similar to Socialism that it is to Capitalism, however, it's not great, or even good, as some people still think we're Capitalists, and refuse to pass any laws that make us "Communist" (See: Healthcare, Education), and refuse to raise taxes, even though the potential revenue is just the windfall we need to get the government back on its feet.
Side Note: Eff you, you ARE going to pay taxes anyway. Better your tax money go to furthering human progress than lining a politician's back pocket, eh?
I wouldn't agree with this. I mean sure there are plenty of issues with the system and I'm no politician but the bottom line comes down to I and pretty much everyone I know lives in a capitalist society and we like the majority of how it works. Even if there are flaws, if the majority of people like how a country is being run I would say the system is working.trooperpaul said:
Actually, they don't. They have no corporate income tax, a downright regressive income tax (Working and middle class wages are stable over time. The wealthy's are not owing to multiple fluctuating income streams. With the huge income stream and planning needed to administer a welfare state, it falls to the regular working stiffs to pay their own way) less regulation than we have here in the states and the highest national average scores on the individualism index.Adam Jensen said:
Back in the 1850s Sweden was a barely developed peasant state before they embraced capitalism and then they embraced it with a zeal and fervor rarely seen and they developed rapidly. In the seventies and eighties a large tide of social democrat sentiment swept the country and when the economy slowed down in the nineties, they threw them out of office and it shows. Currently, they're privatizing the fuck out of their healthcare system (with 25% of clinics and emergency facilities privately owned because, surprise surprise, the government is not the most efficient service provider.)
Even in their last parliamentary election, the socialists ran on the platform of throwing out the recent market liberalization reforms that were put in place. They got spanked.
Well communism is the only way forward as a society. We will know we are in the "future" when communism is able to work as intended. However capitalism works better now for obvious reasons and eventually we'll be able to look back at this part of history with a mixture of sympathy and respect for those who built empires and wonders under it's rule.