Poll: Captain America: Civil War -- Choose your side!

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JohnnyDelRay

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mduncan50 said:
JohnnyDelRay said:
I'd go with Iron Man simply for that fact that it'd be more interesting. I know this probably doesn't have much bearing on anything, but just going for the goody-two-shoes is kind of too expected. Just going from Stark's issues in Ultron, I mean...he was basically the villain of that movie. And his higher intelligence and overcompensated reasoning in protecting the human race just always ends badly. So I'd like to see where he goes with it.
No such thing as a bad reason. I love seeing people's different motivations for choosing one side or the other. I've seen everything from which actor is cutest to which side would actually win in a fight. If it gets you into the struggle of the movie then who's to say that one reason is better than any other.
True, I mean that's the nature of man and sports, right? Any competition, from MMA to downhill skiing you may want a certain character/personality to win for just reasons, whatever they are. And that's what makes it entertaining.

In the recent Bats vs. Supes it was an easy choice for me, because Supes was boring and Bats would have to think of a functional approach. Even though here I believe Iron Man has the upper hand, the downside for him is if anything goes wrong or interferes with his suit he's done for.
 

Extra-Ordinary

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Iron Man for Black Panther and Spider-Man.

Really though, it's because I have a friend who's strictly Team Cap and it's not so much I want Iron Man to win, I just want her to lose.
 

VVThoughtBox

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I believe that superheroes should be held accountable for their action, and be registered with the government. As for Bucky, he should stand trial and own up to his crimes. The Winter Soldier is an adult and should be treated as such, we can't keep letting superheroes off the hook on some contrived reasons. Superheroes aren't to be trusted and Civil War is Proof. Instead of going to court and letting the justice system handle Bucky: Iron Man and Captain America are going to get into a pointless fist fight and cause billions of dollars in property damage, which will in turn give people a reason to hate superheroes. How am I supposed to trust these heroes if they cause more destruction than save lives?
 

mduncan50

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VVThoughtBox said:
I believe that superheroes should be held accountable for their action, and be registered with the government. As for Bucky, he should stand trial and own up to his crimes. The Winter Soldier is an adult and should be treated as such, we can't keep letting superheroes off the hook on some contrived reasons. Superheroes aren't to be trusted and Civil War is Proof. Instead of going to court and letting the justice system handle Bucky: Iron Man and Captain America are going to get into a pointless fist fight and cause billions of dollars in property damage, which will in turn give people a reason to hate superheroes. How am I supposed to trust these heroes if they cause more destruction than save lives?
Bucky may be an adult, but he was also tortured, brainwashed, and mind-controlled. Not what I would call a contrived reason. It could be fair to say that he should still stand trial and let a military tribunal decide whether or not he should be held responsible, with the expectation that the general public knows that this is a possibility, but also remember that this is a world where people would not accept the idea that Kilgrave existed.
 

VVThoughtBox

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mduncan50 said:
VVThoughtBox said:
I believe that superheroes should be held accountable for their action, and be registered with the government. As for Bucky, he should stand trial and own up to his crimes. The Winter Soldier is an adult and should be treated as such, we can't keep letting superheroes off the hook on some contrived reasons. Superheroes aren't to be trusted and Civil War is Proof. Instead of going to court and letting the justice system handle Bucky: Iron Man and Captain America are going to get into a pointless fist fight and cause billions of dollars in property damage, which will in turn give people a reason to hate superheroes. How am I supposed to trust these heroes if they cause more destruction than save lives?
Bucky may be an adult, but he was also tortured, brainwashed, and mind-controlled. Not what I would call a contrived reason. It could be fair to say that he should still stand trial and let a military tribunal decide whether or not he should be held responsible, with the expectation that the general public knows that this is a possibility, but also remember that this is a world where people would not accept the idea that Kilgrave existed.
Something tells me that this is all going to be rendered moot and pointless when HYDRA, or someone from HYDRA show's up at the last part of the movie for the Avengers to fight against.
 

PunkRex

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mduncan50 said:
PunkRex said:
I do think it's a little hypocritical how people call out Iron Man for being kind of far sighted in that he can't see the problems in front of the solution when Cap is always committing the other extreme.

We can't be registering heroes because then my friends will get screwed over!

Errrrrr Cap, as much as I respect your loyalty, they're YOUR friends. Mine was that dude Bucky chucked into a jet engine in the last film.
Can you really blame Bucky for that? He was under the control of a government agency...which is exactly the situation that Cap is trying to prevent for everyone else.
Cap wants power to remain in the hands of individuals, that just won't work. Bucky may have been brainwashed so I suppose he gets a pass but Loki wasn't, neither was Hulk, Magneto, or Deadpool.

Regardless, it's gonna be a interesting movie, and I still love Cap.
 

mduncan50

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PunkRex said:
Cap wants power to remain in the hands of individuals, that just won't work. Bucky may have been brainwashed so I suppose he gets a pass but Loki wasn't, neither was Hulk, Magneto, or Deadpool.

Regardless, it's gonna be a interesting movie, and I still love Cap.
Well Magneto and Deadpool aren't part of the MCU, so they don't count yet. And I would imagine that the Winter Soldier is the representation to Cap of the potential result of government control. Loki is a god from another galaxy, so I am doubtful he would give a crap what any government on Earth says he needs to do. As for Hulk, other than when he was being controlled by Scarlet Witch (another superpowered being that was under government control) the only time he was causing major damage is when the military would attack him.
 

happyninja42

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pookie101 said:
people with powers so overwhelming they could probably level an entire city in an afternoon, yeah that needs to be registered and controlled.
Same here. Not knowing the level to which the comics or the movie are going to take the registration concept, I can't speak. But if the only thing required was "You will register with the government so we can have a database of known powers, in case something crazy happens", seems reasonable to me. We require people who purchase firearms (in the US anyway), to register them, and we expect them to obey the laws everyone else obeys. Beyond that, there isn't anything they are required to do. But, if we find someone dead by a bullet, and it happens to match the registration of a gun, well now we have a place to start investigating.

Seems the same to me with powered people. "Ok, so we have a crime scene, where someone with ice powers went crazy. How many registered ice users do we have? Ok, lets go talk to them for alibies, and start looking for any unregistered ones." That's hardly slavery, that's just prudent criminal investigation.

"But happyninja42! We don't require people to register themselves in our society!" Right, but we also don't have people who are walking, breathing Weapons of Mass Destruction. But when an actual WMD is involved, amazingly, the world takes serious notice. Because of the scale of damage possible. So yeah, to have a setting where you stuff the destructive powers of global scale weapons into human beings, and then say the governments don't have a right to be concerned about these ambulatory WMD's, is trying to have your cake and eat it too in the comic book world. You don't get to make them a global level threat, and then hide behind "I've got personal rights! You can't do things to me!" Well sorry, but yes, yes we can. We can at the very least know you have these powers, and what they do in case something happens later that points to you. If you obey the rules, and just live your life like normal, fine, go for it. But the second we find a town vaporized in an electrical storm, you better believe we're going to look at the registered lightning powers first. Just like a registered gun. You might not be the culprit, but we certainly need to ask you some questions.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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Non-superheroes should not be registered as no one should be registered just for existing. Unlike buying a gun it isn't a choice, all they've done is be alive and be born.

Superheroes should be registered regardless of power or lack thereof. If they are taking a legal role they should be expected to have higher standards placed on them.

Anyone who commits a crime with a power should also be registered for obvious reasons
 

mduncan50

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And we're sitting at 60% Team Cap to 40% Team Iron Man. Tony's definitely leading the Confederate Avengers, but still much closer than I originally thought it would be.
 

JUMBO PALACE

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Tayh said:
I'm on whatever side Captain 'murica is not.
Mostly because I can't stand that guy and what he represents.
Bravery, loyalty, self-sacrifice, and protecting as many people as possible? Yeah what a jerk.

OT: Team Cap all the way. I just think Cap is a more interesting character and I prefer his heroism to Tony's snarky drinking habit. Plus, my name is Steve and I'll be making my own Team Steve shirt if someone else doesn't.
 

Something Amyss

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mduncan50 said:
"But happyninja42! We don't require people to register themselves in our society!" Right, but we also don't have people who are walking, breathing Weapons of Mass Destruction.
I just want to point out that right now, in the US, there is popular support for a dude who wants Muslims to have identification of such.

Honestly, I don't find superhuman registration all that culturally unlikely.
 

Something Amyss

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mduncan50 said:
Hope they don't mind nuking some more cities to keep trying to defeat them.
Yes, and my original post had been lambasting this and other government body decisions as a bad idea. Even the quote you would have pulled this from was responding to someone rationalising it.

Another excerpt from my original comment:

This does not tell me anyone in the MCU is capable of responsible oversight, so it's hard to call it an argument for accountability. It seems like it's an argument for letting the biggest screwups have the most dangerous toys.
A plan to nuke New York was one case of that.

Speaking of....

LifeCharacter said:
If you'd like to change it to government agencies being responsible for lots of things you're welcome to, but that's not what was originally said.
Not what you originally quote mined, at least. I don't know what the deal is here, but given the rest of my message, and the response that was in keeping with the rest of that message, it would seem like this isn't actually my thesis. I'm not particularly sure what cherry picking one line and ignoring anything else I said accomplishes, except to make sure I don't read further replies.

I will not be modifying my statement.
 

mduncan50

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Something Amyss said:
I just want to point out that right now, in the US, there is popular support for a dude who wants Muslims to have identification of such.

Honestly, I don't find superhuman registration all that culturally unlikely.
But equally as reprehensible.
 

Something Amyss

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mduncan50 said:
But equally as reprehensible.
Not so much my point, though. Ninja's imaginary opponent said we don't do this sort of thing in the real world.

I kind of imagine we would do exactly this if we had Supermen or Iron Men in the real world.

Well, no, not Iron Men. Tony Stark would be a rugged individualist who was exercising his second amendment freedoms or some such. And he would have moved all his holdings to an island offshore anyway.
 

PunkRex

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mduncan50 said:
Well Magneto and Deadpool aren't part of the MCU, so they don't count yet. And I would imagine that the Winter Soldier is the representation to Cap of the potential result of government control. Loki is a god from another galaxy, so I am doubtful he would give a crap what any government on Earth says he needs to do. As for Hulk, other than when he was being controlled by Scarlet Witch (another superpowered being that was under government control) the only time he was causing major damage is when the military would attack him.
Well, my point was not that any individual hero would give up their freedom but whether or not they should.

Both sides have their points, I'm super hyped to see what the film says.
 

Something Amyss

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Zeconte said:
The thing I take away from Tony Stark is that, yes, he's a fuck up who's constantly making mistakes, but he also realizes he's a fuck up who constantly makes mistakes, and so, when he realizes he fucked up and made a mistake, he finds a way to fix that mistake.
The problem is Tony's like a guy who keeps hitting his wife and then feeling really bad about it afterwards.

I won't be at all surprised to find Mr Accountability breaking the rules within Civil War. He'll say we need to be held accountable and then do something that flies right in the face of that. He practically can't help himself. And then he'll sober up, look at the bruises, and be all "my god, what have I done?" again.
 

mduncan50

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Zeconte said:
The thing I take away from Tony Stark is that, yes, he's a fuck up who's constantly making mistakes, but he also realizes he's a fuck up who constantly makes mistakes, and so, when he realizes he fucked up and made a mistake, he finds a way to fix that mistake. Ultimately, he wants a peaceful world with the ability to defend itself from anyone or anything that might threaten that peace, and he sees people who have superpowers as a potential threat, so people need a way to keep track of them and know that they exist and what they're capable of, and they need to be held accountable if they use their powers in a way that causes problems, just like anyone else needs to be held accountable for such actions.

So, this is his solution to that. Is it perfect? No, of course not, nothing humans do ever is, but he's got to try something, and if it goes wrong, if it gets abused for someone's twisted ends, he'd be among the first to stand up and say "no, this is wrong" and try to fix his mistake. And that kind of proactive, long term approach is going to benefit humanity far more than Cap's "let's just brute force our way through whatever comes our way whenever it comes" approach. And the thing is, he's done a lot that worked and worked well, it's just that all we see, all that makes for good storytelling, is his fuck ups.
I don't think anyone doubts that Tony's heart (well, arc reactor) is in the right place, but he has shown a history of stubbornly continuing along a chosen path even after, as Cap says, things start going south. Is it understandable to want to know who is out there and what they can do? Sure. Should the government be able to tell people when and where to use their powers? Hmmm, highly debatable, but I can understand the viewpoint of those who believe so. Should an underwater supermax prison be built to contain anyone that doesn't use their powers as the government tells them? What, no! That's just... Should Iron Man and company engage in super-powered battles, putting the public at risk, in order to bring in those "criminals"? Well now you're just actively causing the situations that you were ostensibly working to prevent.
 

Elfgore

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I've always been kind of iffy on the matter, mostly because I tend to always bring in my real life ideals. A big ideal is power corrupts for me. So I would not trust people who can level cities in minutes to be roaming around free. If a few lower level heroes have to suffer for it, I don't see why not. So IRL, Iron Man.

But, if we're going by comic book logic and heroes are infallible beings of good. I'd say Cap. Just mostly because he doesn't release bloodthirsty villains to hunt down those opposing him... or release an unstable Thor android.

Movie wise, I don't have the full idea of why. So I'll be withholding judgement for now.
 

mduncan50

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Just a silly/goofy/cool little thing I found. Apparently if you respond to the tweet shown in the article below, you will receive a short personalized video response from one of the members of that team, welcoming you by name.
http://collider.com/captain-america-civil-war-cast-twitter/

One of these days Marvel will surely do something that isn't the perfect way to promote their movies, but today is not that day!