Poll: Console Syndrome

[Vrex360]

I don't really think it would be that hindered by console controls. I mean granted less buttons means less things that can be mapped to various buttons but the core mechanics of the game should still function the same way.
I mean Bioshock was both a console and PC game and because both versions were developed at around the same time they controlled perfectly on both. So if Crysis 2 found some way to get around a shortage of buttons then I see no way in which the game would be in any way compromised by being on the PC.

 

[Sebenko]

Consoles, obviously. There is a huge market for console owners. PC games make up only a fraction of total game sales. Still, I wish PC was more prevalent since it is my favorite system for gaming. Luckily, there are still some developers that adamantly support PC and will not drop it any time soon.

We love you Valve!
y'know, if you're watching. Stay awesome.

Also, Bioware are pretty good.
And THQ seem to be doing the publishing for a lot of RTS games.
And of course, GSC Game World.

 

[Petromir]

Consoles.

Besides, consoles offer ease of use on the side of the consumers. Push a button and play. No updates, installations (unless you count the PS3, but shut up, my point still stands), not to mention a lack of any need for major console DRM.

Lets see;

Updates, present on all 3 current gen consoles.

Installs for disc based games, present on the 360 and ps3 (ps3 include manditory installs.

DRM present on all 3 current gen consoles. And if bricking your console as a punishments not a major response, I'm not sure what is. Console DRM just affects less innocent byestanders, and almost all of them brought a modded console unknowingly.

Developing on the PC eads to the need to cover more hardwear types yes, but that more affect bugs, as pc arhitechture is fairly uniform, and instruction tend to go through standerdised instruction sets like directx anyway.

The PS3 is no easy beast to program on, partially as its noticiably different in archtecture to anything else on the domestic market, especially if you want to use it to its fullest advantage.

Console games are really easier to make as they are often less complex than pc games. This has become less so recently, but is still true. The disparity in FPS games certainly has, but stratagy, there are more complex flash game than console stratagy games!

No installs for Uncharted 2, Killzone 2 and God of War 3.

But you're right, they're just pretty flash games

Where did i say they were. I was talking about console stratagy games, none of the games you mentioned are stratagy games, were talking RTS games, and turn based stratagy games like civ (the console version of civ is alot simpler than the pc version, certainly there are as deep flash and html games out there).

The comlpexity of a game has little to do with the need for an install on the console, its usually graphical issues that take care of that. The reason behind a them is struggling to get data off the storage media, and discs, bluray in particular is bad at this particular issue.

At no point did I link the comlpexity of the game to the requirement of installs.

 

[Tethalaki]

I work in a gaming store. You pit the new releases for consoles against the pc there is no competition. It's a fact, unfortunately PC is not in it's prime. We have one tiny rack with pc games, and every wall coated with console ones.

That's something I've always found moderately funny. I STOPPED going to my local EB Games to buy games simply because there was no real selection anymore, it was mostly just new-ish games that I had no desire to buy, and maybe 10 or so random games from the past 5 years. Due to that I've completely stopped going to EB, hell, even living in Australia with dodgy Internet I prefer to buy online now.

 

[Linkassassin360]

Why isnt there a both option :/

 

[e2density]

Well almost any game that consoles get also come to PC...and PC gets a few extras.

 

[Catalyst6]

Well almost any game that consoles get also come to PC...and PC gets a few extras.

Not really, there are many, many games that are console exclusive, although they could be easily ported to PC. Final Fantasy, Killzone, Halo 3, etc.

Well, you couldn't port the Wii, but let's face it no one like the Wii anyways.

 

[Vivace-Vivian]

I work in a gaming store. You pit the new releases for consoles against the pc there is no competition. It's a fact, unfortunately PC is not in it's prime. We have one tiny rack with pc games, and every wall coated with console ones.

That's something I've always found moderately funny. I STOPPED going to my local EB Games to buy games simply because there was no real selection anymore, it was mostly just new-ish games that I had no desire to buy, and maybe 10 or so random games from the past 5 years. Due to that I've completely stopped going to EB, hell, even living in Australia with dodgy Internet I prefer to buy online now.

It's true, big company looks for big market. But I wouldn't say the PC market isn't big so I don't know their thinking. I suppose since my PC is a pile of crap I don't even look online for games so I'm not really aware of what's out there on the interwebs, just in my own company.

 

[The Rockerfly]

I should have said "better, or at least equal to" but I'm referring to any aspect of a game; graphics, gameplay, controls, etc. There isn't a single area where a console wins out in my view. I don't buy into your premise that control schemes can't be considered better or worse than others and they are just "different", there's a reason why the pro FPS gamers on the PC don't use pads.

I'm fully aware that a console and a PC are almost fundamentally the same in terms of hardware, but you make it sound like differences such as "controls and access" are completely trivial when they aren't. While I don't doubt that developers try their hardest to use the console controls to the fullest, ultimately all the good design in the world can't make the limitations of a console controller go away.

Did you just say no game pad?

Spoiler

I know for a fact there are several, I work in a video game retailer

Also you guys have to have joysticks as well, console gamers don't. Plus for accuracy it's no different, I play both PC and Xbox games and they are about as accurate as the other. Lets look at the speed of the controller both console and mouse have adjustable speeds.

All the pro gamers use a PC mouse and pad, I disagree.
The Halo 3 MLG 360: http://gamebattles.com/xbox360/halo3/
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare MLG 360: http://gamebattles.com/xbox360/call-of-duty-4/
Gears of War 2 MLG 360: http://gamebattles.com/xbox360/gears-of-war-2/

These are the 3 tournaments with the highest prize money

There is a reason there no specific mouse and keyboard ports for the 360 aside from ones that have a USB connection , people don't want one.

You should tell that to HG131, he's the one making, frankly, ridiculous claims with no reasoning.

You are the one saying "You're just wrong" and won't accept reasonable arguments

 

[D_987]

Most piracy on consoles is from people getting their console chipped then buying the games off the person that did it. Yes it is as rampant as PC piracy if you really think that it is not there you are just being an ostrich. It is there and it is as bad.

Oh, so you're one of those people that, despite all the figures, despite all the facts, despite the much large player-base consoles have, (if consoles had the same piracy levels the ratio of pirate to normal gamer is still dramatically lower) you'll come up with an inarguable point, because there is no way to prove your point - therefore it's complete bullshit. If anything you're being an "Ostrich" in that you refuse to see just how massive PC piracy is - instead you try to hide behind made-up "facts".

You could easily look on the internet and find out how to do or pay someone to do it and they aren't hard to find. Then the games would be bought off siad person at a fraction of the cost so it looks like piracy is less with less downloads. If you really don't think it is as bad you need to get your head out of the sand.

Why don't you show me some statistics then- because just looking up how to do it on the internet won't give you the tools, necessary know-how or means to do so. Plus you'll always run the risk of getting banned from XBL or PSN. Again, stop talking complete garbage and prove your points using statistics (aka reasoned argument) stop coming out with stuff you just made up (i.e that it's somehow just as high as the few PC torrents I posted earlier).

If console piracy was that high, there'd be a crisis - Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo would be frantically trying to stop them. As it stands, although the companies do crack-down on piracy, it's obviously not their chief concern because it's not as high as on the PC where it's incredibly easy to pirate. Anyone can pirate a PC game - so far your options for pirating on consoles have been:

. Use torrents (which as the statistics show is merely a small fraction of the numbers on PC)
. Happen to know someone who sells illegal games, and can chip your console for you (you know, they're everywhere...)

Not as easy, nor as safe. The statistics don't lie.

 

[AlanShore]

Did you just say no game pad?

Spoiler

I know for a fact there are several, I work in a video game retailer

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension as I didn't say that there aren't any pads for the PC. In fact I have previously used the fact that there ARE pads available and you have the choice to use different controls on the PC as one of its strengths.

Also you guys have to have joysticks as well, console gamers don't. Plus for accuracy it's no different, I play both PC and Xbox games and they are about as accurate as the other. Lets look at the speed of the controller both console and mouse have adjustable speeds.

All the pro gamers use a PC mouse and pad, I disagree.
The Halo 3 MLG 360: http://gamebattles.com/xbox360/halo3/
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare MLG 360: http://gamebattles.com/xbox360/call-of-duty-4/
Gears of War 2 MLG 360: http://gamebattles.com/xbox360/gears-of-war-2/

These are the 3 tournaments with the highest prize money

There is a reason there no specific mouse and keyboard ports for the 360 aside from ones that have a USB connection , people don't want one.

You are the one saying "You're just wrong" and won't accept reasonable arguments

Again, reading comprehension has let you down here. I said pro gamers on the PC don't use pads, so why have you listed Xbox games as a counter-argument? Of course they're going to use pads, they have no choice! Take games like Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament for example, pro gamers on the PC could choose to use pads but they don't, they use a mouse. If a pad was better do you not think they would all be using them? Even if they were just equal in performance surely some of them would? So, I don't know about you, but that says to me that they aren't equal at all.

I'll listen to any reasonable arguments when I see them, all I've seen is "controllers are just as accurate for FPS as a mouse" with nothing to back it up, which is clearly not true.

 

[The Rockerfly]

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension as I didn't say that there aren't any pads for the PC. In fact I have previously used the fact that there ARE pads available and you have the choice to use different controls on the PC as one of its strengths.

Again, reading comprehension has let you down here. I said pro gamers on the PC don't use pads, so why have you listed Xbox games as a counter-argument? Of course they're going to use pads, they have no choice! Take games like Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament for example, pro gamers on the PC could choose to use pads but they don't, they use a mouse. If a pad was better do you not think they would all be using them? Even if they were just equal in performance surely some of them would? So, I don't know about you, but that says to me that they aren't equal at all.

I'll listen to any reasonable arguments when I see them, all I've seen is "controllers are just as accurate for FPS as a mouse" with no explanation.

Your argument is just as valid to a counter point. Whilst there are USB mouses and keyboards, to use on the PS3 and 360 people and professional gamers choose not to use them. Almost identical to the fact that there are controllers for the PC but they choose not use them

I listed them because are considered the largest competitions, PC games have the smallest prize money (bar the Wii but the day that there is an MLG for the Wii I will eat my shoe)

Okay lets look at it completely logically, what makes a good controller? It needs to be accurate, comfortable, durability, costs and extra features

We have already addressed accuracy but I think we can agree both are as accurate as the other due to adjusting speeds, use of auto lock ons and aiming cross heads

Next is comfortable, I personally think that pads are more comfortable because you can just play with your hands on your lap and you don't need a hard surface to use it or a mouse mat. However with a mouse mat and keyboard I have found you need to sit in a certain position otherwise you can gain a lot of strain

Durability is third, I find that due to the small size and lack of buttons on a controller to be slightly better but with a keyboard it matters what brand and how much you spend on them

Costs again it depends how much you want to spend. Lets look at a gaming mouse, you can spend up to £100 but for the sake of this I went for the cheapest gaming mouse I can find is about £20 along with a gaming keyboard also the cheapest I can find it £20 so that comes to $40, while a wireless 360 controller is £25 (all of these prices are from Amazon). So a PC set comes to £40 while a 360 controller is £25 so this goes to the 360 controller

Finally best extra features, for pc hotkeys and for the 360 rumble feature. I personally find hotkeys to be invaluable and the 360's major let down however the rumble feature is really good for immersion

So from looking at this logically the 360 has 4 and the pc has 3.

EDIT: Woo 3000 posts

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Most piracy on consoles is from people getting their console chipped then buying the games off the person that did it. Yes it is as rampant as PC piracy if you really think that it is not there you are just being an ostrich. It is there and it is as bad.

Oh, so you're one of those people that, despite all the figures, despite all the facts, despite the much large player-base consoles have, (if consoles had the same piracy levels the ratio of pirate to normal gamer is still dramatically lower) you'll come up with an inarguable point, because there is no way to prove your point - therefore it's complete bullshit. If anything you're being an "Ostrich" in that you refuse to see just how massive PC piracy is - instead you try to hide behind made-up "facts".

You could easily look on the internet and find out how to do or pay someone to do it and they aren't hard to find. Then the games would be bought off siad person at a fraction of the cost so it looks like piracy is less with less downloads. If you really don't think it is as bad you need to get your head out of the sand.

Why don't you show me some statistics then- because just looking up how to do it on the internet won't give you the tools, necessary know-how or means to do so. Plus you'll always run the risk of getting banned from XBL or PSN. Again, stop talking complete garbage and prove your points using statistics (aka reasoned argument) stop coming out with stuff you just made up (i.e that it's somehow just as high as the few PC torrents I posted earlier).

If console piracy was that high, there'd be a crisis - Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo would be frantically trying to stop them. As it stands, although the companies do crack-down on piracy, it's obviously not their chief concern because it's not as high as on the PC where it's incredibly easy to pirate. Anyone can pirate a PC game - so far your options for pirating on consoles have been:

. Use torrents (which as the statistics show is merely a small fraction of the numbers on PC)
. Happen to know someone who sells illegal games, and can chip your console for you (you know, they're everywhere...)

Not as easy, nor as safe. The statistics don't lie.

Actually I believe there was a news post on this very website of 1mil 360s being banned and for that matter I know of few people who can get a hold of people who can do this and who sell pirated games and that is the difference between console pirating and pc pirating. Console pirating has much more hidden figure because one person has the game downloaded and puts it on DvD and sell them to other people. Also by that merits anyone can pirate a console game. There is no way to prove your point either yes you can look at torrent sites but it still doesn't account for people selling pirated games that have only been downloaded once which are the source for most console pirating I know of.

Just because you don't know anyone who is capable of this doesn't mean that they aren't out there. I don't know anyone who pirates PC games does that mean the PC has no pirates of course it does. So you're one of those people who decide to use they "concrete" facts provided by downloads which is not all of piracy. Yes while 90% of PC pirating is done by downloading cracked games console pirating is not. If don't agree with my point you don't have to be a dick about it. I never said it was protionally as bad I said it was as bad and it is. Saying it is harder doesn't make it so neither does me saying it make it easier make it easier. If you want to do it it can be done. So don't go spouting these facts when there is nothing to back them up besides a number on a website when there is plenty of pirating that can't be accounted for.

 

[AlanShore]

Your argument is just as valid to a counter point. Whilst there are USB mouses and keyboards, to use on the PS3 and 360 people and professional gamers choose not to use them. Almost identical to the fact that there are controllers for the PC but they choose not use them

As far as I'm aware, the Xbox 360 doesn't support mouse and keyboard officially for gaming and while the PS3 does, I'm only aware of UT3 that takes advantage. But if you know something I don't I'd be glad to hear your thoughts.

I listed them because are considered the largest competitions, PC games have the smallest prize money (bar the Wii but the day that there is an MLG for the Wii I will eat my shoe)

I'm still not sure why money is being brought into this. I know pro console players exist, I never argued otherwise.

Okay lets look at it completely logically, what makes a good controller? It needs to be accurate, comfortable, durability, costs and extra features

We have already addressed accuracy but I think we can agree both are as accurate as the other due to adjusting speeds, use of auto lock ons and aiming cross heads

But that's exactly my point, a controller can't win purely on its own merits, it needs all of these extra "player aids" to make the game playable. I could play TF2 with an Xbox pad and install an aim-bot, that doesn't mean that the control scheme is more accurate. Plus even with all the extra assistance, a pad wouldn't be capable of pulling off things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPfaQJuWGvU&feature=fvw

Next is comfortable, I personally think that pads are more comfortable because you can just play with your hands on your lap and you don't need a hard surface to use it or a mouse mat. However with a mouse mat and keyboard I have found you need to sit in a certain position otherwise you can gain a lot of strain

Personally, I disagree and find that for anything longer than 30 minutes the Xbox and PS3 pads start to make my hand and thumbs hurt, while I could play for hours with a mouse and keyboard. But this is all just personal preference.

Durability is third, I find that due to the small size and lack of buttons on a controller to be slightly better but with a keyboard it matters what brand and how much you spend on them

Costs again it depends how much you want to spend. Lets look at a gaming mouse, you can spend up to £100 but for the sake of this I went for the cheapest gaming mouse I can find is about £20 along with a gaming keyboard also the cheapest I can find it £20 so that comes to $40, while a wireless 360 controller is £25 (all of these prices are from Amazon). So a PC set comes to £40 while a 360 controller is £25 so this goes to the 360 controller

Finally best extra features, for pc hotkeys and for the 360 rumble feature. I personally find hotkeys to be invaluable and the 360's major let down however the rumble feature is really good for immersion

Again, this is really down to personal preference and I really don't care about rumble and I've never found a use for hotkeys.

So from looking at this logically the 360 has 4 and the pc has 3.

EDIT: Woo 3000 posts

Depends on how heavily you weight the categories. I would think that the main reason people would chose a control scheme would be for accuracy and speed with the other categories being secondary. After all, what use is a controller that makes it hard to play the game!

Gratz on 3k!

 

[Delusibeta]

Consoles. Largely because there's probably a larger market for them.

That said, it's not necessarily bad thing for the PC to get a console port (see: Psyconauts).

 

[SomeBritishDude]

Consoles. With piracy rate who can blame them?

It's not a "syndrome" for me at least. I've been a console gamer for many years now.

 

[The Rockerfly]

As far as I'm aware, the Xbox 360 doesn't support mouse and keyboard officially for gaming and while the PS3 does, I'm only aware of UT3 that takes advantage. But if you know something I don't I'd be glad to hear your thoughts.

I'm still not sure why money is being brought into this. I know pro console players exist, I never argued otherwise.

But that's exactly my point, a controller can't win purely on its own merits, it needs all of these extra "player aids" to make the game playable. I could play TF2 with an Xbox pad and install an aim-bot, that doesn't mean that the control scheme is more accurate. Plus even with all the extra assistance, a pad wouldn't be capable of pulling off things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPfaQJuWGvU&feature=fvw


Personally, I disagree and find that for anything longer than 30 minutes the Xbox and PS3 pads start to make my hand and thumbs hurt, while I could play for hours with a mouse and keyboard. But this is all just personal preference.


Again, this is really down to personal preference and I really don't care about rumble and I've never found a use for hotkeys.

Depends on how heavily you weight the categories. I would think that the main reason people would chose a control scheme would be for accuracy and speed with the other categories being secondary. After all, what use is a controller that makes it hard to play the game!

Gratz on 3k!

I think it does support keyboard that have usb connections but I couldn't say for the mouse

However, we are not pro gamers, I never want to play professionally and I just want to play for fun, however I have see where you are coming from but I respond that a lot of people on consoles need them but I have never found I have except for a cross head it was ever necessary.
For anyone buying a gaming system, cost is a massive impact. Especially for a university student like myself

I think again on comfort we will have to agree to disagree, I'm fairly sure if we used the other eventually we would get used to it however for the time being it is more comfortable for you

I don't think the controller is a deciding factor when someone buys a controller though. Though it should be, I have never found anyone consider the controller a deciding factor and I've worked in video game retailers for 2 years
If it isn't comfortable or cheap then a lot of people will not want to use the controller

However I think the best thing to do is agree to disagree and both walk away with more than before we started debating

Oh and thanks