Poll: Deadliest Warrior, Crap and Poor-Taste?

[Tehgnarr]

Wow, it's kinda sad that I registered here just to reply to this thread, but here goes =)

The problem with this kind of simulations is, that you can _never_ get even close to a "full" simulation. You'd have to account for such factors as weather conditions during the fight, terrain, fatigue of the fighters and many many more. There are programs used by the military to simulate big operations which use a lot of different parameters, but even those aren't (can't be) really accurate. Those results are just estimates. That's why I think, that the software they use is sufficient to make a fun tv-show, but can't be taken too seriously.

And of course they have to be biased towards the US-Forces, because it's a US show, for US people, funded by US ads. I was really surprised that Spetznaz won against the Green Hat dudes, but then again - it's Spetznaz and I have read some memoires of former Spetznaz operatives...

Also, there were some complaints about testing of the grenades in that episode - but keep in mind: those grenades were of different design and made for different purposes (I think they mentioned it on the show).

IRA vs Taliban episode...well, there was a time, when the Taliban were not the enemy, but an ally of USA used to keep USSR out of Afghanistan. So...no point in complaining about that, I guess. You create a monster and then it comes back - cause it always does ^^

"It's just a show, I should really just relax!" is a quote from MST3K opening theme =)

EDIT: I just re-read the opening post and this whole "WOW! HARDCORE!" stuff they say is really just that typical frat-boy-speak, that nearly all males (yours truly included) use when seeing something spectacular - for instance, expoloding pipebombs. No need to judge on that.

 

[Turigamot]

Yeah, I can't watch this show. I'm the type of guy that is incapable of watching shows based on historical events and mythology unless they are factual. You should of seen me when I was watching 'Clash of the Titans' and Hades was repeatedly said to be evil.

You know what that makes you? A pendant.

Know what's great about pedants? Absolutely nothing.

I'm a pendant? And here I thought I was an earring.

Proof. Though I admit I chuckled.

Then I am good for something and therefore disprove your previous statement of us pedants being good for nothing.

Son of a...

 

[WouldYouKindly]

The show is basically the manifestation of inane "what if" conversations. It's cheap fun with a little bit of(often bad) science and an occasional raping of history.

That being said, I would like to see them do this kind of thing with forces larger than a squad. I would like to see how a roman army would do against say a medieval army. Knights can be an undisciplined lot and tend to fight individually as opposed to part of a unit. What wins out? Individual valor and weight of arms or uncrushable discipline and effective tactics?

 

[CANofKAM]

who gives half a **** about historical accuracy or whatever you people can find a reason to complain about. All i want to see is a Pirate fight a knight or the Mafia fight the Yakuza, i don't care if the pirate really used a cutlass as apposed to a saber, I want to see two iconic bad-ass' duke it out with a lot of blood, guts, guns and swords along the way. The shows not supposed to be a documentary, its meant to be enjoyed with its mind numbing, stupid, pointless violence so just watch it, enjoy and stop complaining.

 

[headbanger97]

Here is what I think about the show. I think it was created so that people can quit with the who would win in a fight arguments. sure your right it is not perfect, but it is way more accurate than two drunk dudes arguing.

 

[Hides His Eyes]

They only compare weapons, never tactics, terrain or the intented enemies of the warriors weapons.

I have seen them compare tactics and weapons on every episode ive seen.

Now, I say that the IRA vs Taliban episode was in poor taste for a few reasons. Firstly because according to the show the IRA (Irish Republican Army, a group of terrorists trying to make Northern Ireland part of the Republic of Ireland) are "freedom fighters" fighting for "the freedom of Ireland". The show is incredibly sympathetic to them (but not to the Taliban of course) despite the fact that the IRA were terrorists, who killed innocents.

In fairness the IRA never did anything to america so why should they be treated the same as the taliban(who have done things to americans) by americans.

I want people clear that the IRA are terrorists, not freedom fighters, not oppresed liberators.[/qoute]

You obviously have none of the facts if thats what you think.

Alright, time to answer some objections it seems.

Objection 1) Well, what episodes have you seen? Because I have seen ninja's do one on one fights to the death with gladiators, individual pirates fight on land, the Vietcong fight in a straight up typical battle and a Roman Centurion fight on his own. As far as I've seen, they care little for tactics.

Objection 2) Does that give me an excuse, as British, the right to not care about the Vietcong, the Norway killer guy and the genocide of the Hutus by the Tutsis and treat them and the disasters they were involved in an insensitive and tactless manner?

Objection 3) Well, what are the facts then, because as far as I see it, the IRA *are* terrorists (they waged a campaign of terror in order to get what they want) against a democratic country in which the common man had decided not to agree with what the IRA stood for (read: not oppressed, not the common person's fighter).

First, ive seen basically every episode and until this tread had pretty much forgotten the simulated fights at the end, but those simulated fights have nothing to do with the test results except the outcome, they load the weapons strenghts and weaknesses into a computer which tells them which weapons are overall better. the simulated fight and their terrain and tactics have nothing to do with it its just for entertainment.

Second, Oh your british that explains our hatred of IRA, the people willing to fight against your governemts oprression of Ireland.

Third, The IRA are indeed freedom fighters giving that their goal is ultimately the freedom of Ireland from British rule. Id say the only people who dont agree with what the IRA truly stand for despite their "terrorrist" label is you british.

Mate, they may be freedom fighters, and yes, Britain has given Ireland raw deal after raw deal through the centuries and that sucks, but THEY HAVE BLOWN UP INNOCENT PEOPLE. They are terrorists. Sympathising with their cause is one thing, an admirable thing. But supporting them after some of the shit they've done? You're either badly informed or you just have no respect for human life.

I totally agree about the "wow hardcore" thing. Very bad taste and frankly offensive, and saying "it's light entertainment, don't take it so seriously" is not good enough in my opinion.

 

[Drizzitdude]

How about the fact a nija came right out and attacked a spartan and a samurai with no stealth element involved? How about the fact NONE of the fights are fair?

I remember a couple of contests that piss me off.

Samurai vs Ninja
Ninja Vs spartan
Knight Vs pirate

Honeslty they could have made more fair fights, Perhaps
pirate vs musketeer
Knight vs Samurai
Ninja Vs Zulu assassin (or whatever it was called that aired forevor ago)

Hell they even had a made up fight between sun tzu and vlad the impaler

 

[Hafnium]

It's a show of much wasted potential, I watch it because I like the weapons, but their "scientific testing" is just awful. They don't seem to take the most important factors of fighting into account, but instead watch what weapon maimed the pig most severely. If they were more serious and researched properly, it could be very good.

I'll give you a few examples, in the Joan of Arc vs William there were, suprise, numerous idiotic conclusion.

Firstly, they give the edge to William's sword over Joan's because he killed the pigs faster. That test was all about the knuckleheads they gave that sword to, the same person would have had similar results with both weapons. And of course swinging a sword against plate doesn't pierce it, what could happen is blunt trauma due to repeated blows. The Joan stand-in easily pierces the mail of William-pig with the tip as she thrusts it in with a polearm-grip (holding the blade with one gauntlet), but that isn't something you easily do to a big, strong man that fights back. It's very close range, predictable and easily swept aside when performed by a small, 17-year old girl, who was a farmer a few weeks ago. Yet in the live-action battle she kills Willaim with one-handed thrusts, fighting up a set of stairs, with no injury and little difficulty.

The X-factors add a new layer of stupidity in the way they use it. Even though they argued that William was a badass veteran and generally a strong fighter (200lbs), while Joan (125lbs) was a teenage girl with no combat experience, they gave William a physicality of 78 and Joan 64. What do you have to be to get a score of 40, triple-amputee?

Afterwards they rate them on battlefield experience, William has lots and gets 81, she has NONE, they even state that and then give her a 58. I facepalmed halfway out of my chair at that point..

It gets even more brilliant when they rate them on something as solid as intuition, giving Joan 84 and William 80, citing God's inspiration or "something else" as the source of that number.

 

[Flyingchciken93]

They only compare weapons, never tactics, terrain or the intented enemies of the warriors weapons.

I have seen them compare tactics and weapons on every episode ive seen.

Now, I say that the IRA vs Taliban episode was in poor taste for a few reasons. Firstly because according to the show the IRA (Irish Republican Army, a group of terrorists trying to make Northern Ireland part of the Republic of Ireland) are "freedom fighters" fighting for "the freedom of Ireland". The show is incredibly sympathetic to them (but not to the Taliban of course) despite the fact that the IRA were terrorists, who killed innocents.

In fairness the IRA never did anything to america so why should they be treated the same as the taliban(who have done things to americans) by americans.

I want people clear that the IRA are terrorists, not freedom fighters, not oppresed liberators.[/qoute]

You obviously have none of the facts if thats what you think.

Alright, time to answer some objections it seems.

Objection 1) Well, what episodes have you seen? Because I have seen ninja's do one on one fights to the death with gladiators, individual pirates fight on land, the Vietcong fight in a straight up typical battle and a Roman Centurion fight on his own. As far as I've seen, they care little for tactics.

Objection 2) Does that give me an excuse, as British, the right to not care about the Vietcong, the Norway killer guy and the genocide of the Hutus by the Tutsis and treat them and the disasters they were involved in an insensitive and tactless manner?

Objection 3) Well, what are the facts then, because as far as I see it, the IRA *are* terrorists (they waged a campaign of terror in order to get what they want) against a democratic country in which the common man had decided not to agree with what the IRA stood for (read: not oppressed, not the common person's fighter).

First, ive seen basically every episode and until this tread had pretty much forgotten the simulated fights at the end, but those simulated fights have nothing to do with the test results except the outcome, they load the weapons strenghts and weaknesses into a computer which tells them which weapons are overall better. the simulated fight and their terrain and tactics have nothing to do with it its just for entertainment.

Second, Oh your british that explains our hatred of IRA, the people willing to fight against your governemts oprression of Ireland.

Third, The IRA are indeed freedom fighters giving that their goal is ultimately the freedom of Ireland from British rule. Id say the only people who dont agree with what the IRA truly stand for despite their "terrorrist" label is you british.

Mate, they may be freedom fighters, and yes, Britain has given Ireland raw deal after raw deal through the centuries and that sucks, but THEY HAVE BLOWN UP INNOCENT PEOPLE. They are terrorists. Sympathising with their cause is one thing, an admirable thing. But supporting them after some of the shit they've done? You're either badly informed or you just have no respect for human life.

I totally agree about the "wow hardcore" thing. Very bad taste and frankly offensive, and saying "it's light entertainment, don't take it so seriously" is not good enough in my opinion.

I never said i supported them though it may have sounded that way, i just dont view them as terrorrists the same as the taliban, now thats probably just my bias but what can you do. I meant the virtual fight is light entertainment not the wow hardcore thing thats completely disrespectfulll of that guy buy it was probably just a slip of the tongue.

 

[Rawne1980]

If I wanted to watch something for historical accuracy i'd watch the history channel. If I want to watch a collection of over excited folks hack a pigs corpse up with a katana i'll watch deadliest warrior.

Do I think it's in poor taste?

No, I very rarely take anything I watch on TV seriously. I very rarely take anything seriously for that matter.

 

[Pyramid Head]

The target audience is MMA fans who know fuck all about actual martial arts, military tactics, philosophies, and who probably think professional wrestling isn't scripted. What the fuck did you expect, genuine effort?

 

[BloodSquirrel]

Also, Deadliest Warrior-related: why do the guys who claim to be total badasses always seem to be complete and utter dickheads? I seriously doubt any true professional is going to strut around, bragging and arguing because he's placed all his faith in the outcome of a notoriously idiotic virtual fight just to prove how big his dick is. Where the hell do they find these guys, and who decided to let them near deadly weapons?

True professional? "Guy who trains to use ancient weapons and fighting style" isn't generally a profession. Most of the experts are hobbyists, perhaps with a related job- meaning that most of them are fanboys, with varying degrees of fanboyish behavior attached. The most entertaining thing I've seen on the show was the Scottish guys taking the piss out of the Zulu expert.

 

[IronicBeet]

You can't really expect too much from a Spike TV show. It's incredibly inaccurate a lot of the time, but it's entertaining to watch. That's the main point of it.

The games are pretty neat, too.

 

[Duskwaith]

Now, I say that the IRA vs Taliban episode was in poor taste for a few reasons. Firstly because according to the show the IRA (Irish Republican Army, a group of terrorists trying to make Northern Ireland part of the Republic of Ireland) are "freedom fighters" fighting for "the freedom of Ireland". The show is incredibly sympathetic to them (but not to the Taliban of course) despite the fact that the IRA were terrorists, who killed innocents. You may say why worry, but I say that there is a strange amount of IRA sympathism in America already, and while people are entitled to opinions, I want people clear that the IRA are terrorists, not freedom fighters, not oppresed liberators.

The other reason is about an event that happened for a split second, but disgusted me. While watching a video of an IRA bombing (which killed civilians) the main host went, "WOW, HARDCORE!" I wonder what he did when he watched the videos of 9/11, did he say HARDCORE then? Seriously, what a moment of utter tastelessness.

One Mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. T.A.L

And the bombing they showed didnt kill anyone it blew up an old telecom exchange in Belfast they didnt just happen to film a random bomb going off without know one knowing since the IRA left warnings for such devices.

Its a tv show, not an direct scientific study of two opposing forces based on technicalities that would be far too boring people why else would every fight take part in a carpark?

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

You're missing the point by taking the supposed purpose of the show way, way too seriously. The whole "WE WILL DECIDE ONCE AND FOR ALL WHO THE GREATEST WARRIOR IS" pretext is just their way of marketing the real purpose of the show: manly, gory, morbid weapon porn. Let's face it, the most entertaining part of a truly scientific and objective approach to a "who would win" show would still be the part where they beat the everliving shit out of ballistic dummies with weapons; SpikeTV was smart enough to trim the fat and make the show entirely about how badly a certain era of weapons would fuck someone up, and even included a doctor to give clinical diagnoses on how badly the surrogate body's day just got ruined.

They then tie each episode of weapon porn together quite neatly with a theme, a goal, and a sense of competition that pretty much guarantees that its viewers are going to have a favorite from the get-go (case in point: I'm pretty sure most of the ire directed at the show comes from people that saw their favorite side lose and go "BULLSHIT THAT WOULDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE [INSERT UNACCOUNTED-FOR TECHNICALITY HERE]").

The point of Deadliest Warrior isn't to provide a realistic depiction of what would happen if samurai and vikings ever did face off and then provide a concrete, scientific verdict; the point of the show is to say HEY VIKINGS AND SAMURAI ARE PRETTY BADASS HUH HEY LOOK AT WHAT THEIR SWORDS CAN DO TO A PIG OH MAN OH JEEZ IT COULD CUT LIKE A HUNDRED PEOPLE IN HALF WITH ONE SWING THATS SO FUCKING COOL, DUDE DID YOU KNOW THAT A VIKING THROWING TWO SPEARS AT ONCE CAN PIERCE A LOG AT 1500PSi OHMUHGAWD... and really, it's an admirable goal that it delivers on in spades. It's like Mythbusters with all the boring science shit and speculation cut out, and based entirely on killing people. And then they cap it off with a live-action fight between a pirate and a knight in a fucking suit of armor dueling to the death. What are you complaining about?

 

[Hitokiri_Gensai]

i think its an interesting concept, but i also believe we cannot compare warrior across history accurately. There are far too many variables to be considered and combat is all part luck as well, so no one can garuntee an outcome. Numbers alone hardly consititute human interaction in any medium.