Poll: Do instant-kill knives/melee need to go?

[PROXYCB]

I believe they need to go, just because that they seem to have replaced firearms as the killing weapons. If I was to stab someone in the neck, let alone the chest or back, they would still be alive long enough to shoot me or even to make a full recovery in the hospital before coming back to the fight a couple months later. But if you shoot someone virtually anywhere, you're likely to kill them just from the shock and damage to the nerves or blood-loss, or the fact that their brains are on the wall behind them. Now knives have their uses in combat roles, but by modern standards, they are outdated. Honestly, the odds of actually ever employing a knife in ANY sort of combat situation would be your final resort after your puny pistol is out of ammo.

Edit: A alternative would be by making melee a 'Skill' and not a instant killing tool overused by everyone in games like COD. I'd like to see a game where characters can only sprint for VERY short distance, and normal movement speed is slowed down realistically. That way knifing people would be a challenge, you'd be required to actually sneak or outflank people with skill and stealth. Rather then the hundreds of people who can sprint for a unlimited time and crank their sensitivity so high that they can literally run up and knife you in the face.

Listen to this guy

To put it simply, in the multiplayer setting, it is about bragging rights, not realism.

This is especially the case in BF: BC2 as you get a copy of the knife victims' dog tags upon successfully killing them with your knife.

and also some games like cod can get too chaotic and crazy to sneak around slowly, plus i find that the number melee kills on shooting type games (for lack of a better term) already pale in comparison to gun kills that melee insta kills ain't a issue for most games.

 

[crazypsyko666]

I think there should be something of a compromise. Knives should kill instantly, because they're more likely to perforate kevlar, but the main melee attack should be smacking someone with your gun. Don't get me wrong, it should be lethal, but not so immediately. Smacking someone in the face should do MASSIVE damage, but smacking them in the arm or body shouldn't do as much. There are a lot of unexplored aspects of melee combat, too, like smacking someone in the gut to bend them over, smacking them in the arm to throw off their aim, that would be cool.

 

[sneakypenguin]

It keeps combat at acceptable ranges as one or both parties don't want to enter a kill zone. In games without a good meleee you get that funky mating dance as two parties run around each other. Its like a fight reset keeping engagements at ranges intended.

 

[VonBrewskie]

I think it should be considered whether or not taking the close-combat, instant-kill mechanic would hurt gameplay. If it's just a question of specific animations eg: knives don't usually kill instantly with one swipe at close range but a shotgun can blow a hole through you, then maybe just what weapons are used during an "instant-kill" sequence needs to change. What do you all think? (This question seems to be geared to we, the FPSers, yes?)

 

[theguitarhero6]

Well, it does take a little bit of skill and/or stealth to pull off these kinds of kills generally. Take CoD: BlOps, Getting inclose for the kill and needing good reflexes are nececsary for instant kills, and projectile instants take significant skill with both timing and accuracy. So I suppose if a player can pull it off successfully, why not let them be rewarded with an easier kill?

 

[Jfswift]

I don't mind instant kills with knives although I feel that gun damage should be adjusted higher, to more realistic levels tbh.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

they should stay. they give an important element to gameplay and a real soldier would know where to stab for insta-kill knives in cod are a very fun thing to use and before knives are taken out i beleive snipers in that game are more unbalanced and if anyhting they should be taken out before knives.

 

[JourneyThroughHell]

This. Melee is the one thing Reach did right (I know that an assassination is an instant kill in every other Halo, Reach just has the cool animations. ).

How often do people both drop dead at an istant after meleeing each other?

According to Reach, all the time.

OT: No, I don't have a problem with it. I just thing there should be no lunge.

 

[Nazulu]

I say no. It depends, I saw my brother constantly killed by someone with a GIANT blade in Reach and I find that reasonable because you don't start of with the weapon and stabbing someone in a fast paced FPS isn't that easy. However, if they did start of with it then I would find it annoying when some of the guns kill you in 8 shots. I say it was best in Counter Strike, you could only kill other players in one shot by stabbing them in the head which seems fair, no?

 

[VonBrewskie]

I think it is reasonable to a point, like many people have said, back kills would be good, but face to face, it should take a couple hits. And it should
so be only if you're close up, none of that jumping knife kill bullshit they do now

Good point, IMO. Do you think that the arcadey (yes. I am using points from my artistic license to use the non-word "arcadey") nature of a quick game like COD would suffer from your suggested game mechanic?

 

[bl4ckh4wk64]

I think they should implement some sort of a thing where if you're knifed anywhere but your neck or head, you should simply fall on the ground and bleed out. Kind of like Last Stand. If you're knifed in the heart or lung areas, you bleed out quicker. If you're knifed in the head or neck, you should be killed.

Then again, I've also been a major supporter of having area specific death sequences and damages. For example, if you're shot in the arm, you drop your weapon and automatically switch to a secondary. If you then pick up a main weapon your accuracy drops tremendously because you're not able to use that arm anymore. If you're shot in the leg, you walk/run slower. If you're shot in the head, you're screwed. Heart shots kill you. Lung shots make you bleed out while your screen flashes white and red to portray the pain your character is feeling. If you're shot in the groin, you automatically die from embarrassment and shame that you had just been castrated by a bullet.

 

[crazy_egyptian]

I believe they need to go, just because that they seem to have replaced firearms as the killing weapons. If I was to stab someone in the neck, let alone the chest or back, they would still be alive long enough to shoot me or even to make a full recovery in the hospital before coming back to the fight a couple months later. But if you shoot someone virtually anywhere, you're likely to kill them just from the shock and damage to the nerves or blood-loss, or the fact that their brains are on the wall behind them. Now knives have their uses in combat roles, but by modern standards, they are outdated. Honestly, the odds of actually ever employing a knife in ANY sort of combat situation would be your final resort after your puny pistol is out of ammo.

Edit: A alternative would be by making melee a 'Skill' and not a instant killing tool overused by everyone in games like COD. I'd like to see a game where characters can only sprint for VERY short distance, and normal movement speed is slowed down realistically. That way knifing people would be a challenge, you'd be required to actually sneak or outflank people with skill and stealth. Rather then the hundreds of people who can sprint for a unlimited time and crank their sensitivity so high that they can literally run up and knife you in the face.

We have a genius right here folks.
Or instead of it being a 'skill' make it your secondary in place of your pistol, so that people are limited to their primary for everything that isn't a meter or 2 away (3-6ish feet)

 

[NightHawk21]

I think all of this would be fixed if they had a separate button to pull out your knife. Do it like killzone 2 did it. If you hit the melee button with your gun out you rifle-butt/ pistol-whip the enemy (depending on your gun), but it takes like 2-3 hits to kill them this way. However, if you are going into a corridor and you know that there will be melee fighting you can hit a button on the d-pad and pull out a knife, which you can then use to attack and it does more damage. That way no can just push the "insta-kill button" and have everyone in front of the die, since if you want a quicker kill you have to invest the time necessary to actually draw your knife. Honestly though, I want to meet the guy that reasoned and convinced the development team that it was a good idea to add an instant melee kill button that homing lunges at people.

FYI, it is a shit ton better in Black Ops than it was in MW2. MW2 is still the only game FPS game I have played where I could do just as well if not better running around with a fucking butter knife as opposed to shooting people, even though just about every gun was overpowered.

P.S. I have no problem with the knifing kills where the character swipes the knife across the screen, because while they are unrealistic the character at least doesn't lunge at you during which time he's invincible and immune to bullets(yes I know its a videogame, I don't need to hear about how it doesn't need to be or shouldn't be realistic).

P.P.S. If not the killzone way than I also vote to do the way they did it in Reach.

 

[Choppaduel]

worked ok in BF2, so long as theres not much lag.

 

[sylekage]

snip

Good point, IMO. Do you think that the arcadey (yes. I am using points from my artistic license to use the non-word "arcadey") nature of a quick game like COD would suffer from your suggested game mechanic?

I think people would be pissed, especially the younger crowd, but the gamers, like they always do, will work around it and become crazy good with it again

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

I think that the front melee kill shouldn't kill that fast (essentially it's a last hope weapon) and that the attack from behind should be a bit longer, but should instant-kill (as you've snuck up on them you can slit their throat or do something else unpleasant like that). This means that the "charge the enemy and knife them" strategy really wouldn't work as it wouldn't kill them and would mean that close range weapons like shotguns and pistols would rightfully rule again (rather than the teleporting knifers). But at the same time it would keep it so that the knife could still be a very deadly, and silent, weapon if you can sneak up on the enemy and get that back-attack.

This seems like a pretty good way of going about with the whole thing.

Edit: I also like the idea of the melee weapon (should you not be using the knife) being a seperate weapon that you have to take out to use. Otherwise you just hit them with whatever gun you are using (which would do less than the knife, but would take less time to get ready).

 

[SimuLord]

I'm still dying to know how anyone kills a Deathclaw with a melee weapon in New Vegas. If ever a game needed an Instant Death Stabby Slashy Thingy, that game is it.

 

[Hader]

Excuse me, but the riot shield in MW2 took two bashes to kill.

But otherwise, no, if its a damn knife it is going to cause enough damage to incapacitate at the very least. If someone gets close enough to knife you in the first place then you are a shit shot or don't watch your back enough and you deserve to be instantly killed.

 

[Jaime_Wolf]

Video games are not real life.

Melee attacks are fun and making them less useful than guns would mean that no one would use them, so removing them would make games less fun.

They add a nice humiliation factor and some variety to a genre that often has trouble finding ways to inject variety.

Insta-kill knives bother me, mainly because there is no counter to it. If there was a parry mechanism, or a dodge mechanism, or some counter to it then perhaps it wouldn't bother me so much. I don't mind sneak kills, ala Team Fortress 2s' spy back stab mechanic, but for frontal attacks, there should be something you can do to prevent it.

Shoot them.

 

[NightHawk21]

[/quote]Shoot them.[/quote]

Problem is people become invincible to bullets at that point.