Poll: Do we nice guys still stand a chance?

[artanis_neravar]

I might be a little too young to throw in my $0.02, but I'll go ahead and do it.

I've been "nice" pretty much most of my life. I've have what some people might call, a kind heart, I help my friends out vigorously, even if it means sacrificing my own time or money, all that kind of things. I've also been called sweet, by a bunch of other girls as well. But I've been completely puzzled by this as well. I see people who treat women/girls with disrespect actually have girlfriends of their own.

I'll tell you a story. I used to like this girl in middle school (last year, actually). I made it pretty obvious that I liked her, I even told her quite a few times (by text messages). In the beginning of when I liked her, she told me that she might hurt me emotionally. I didn't really care. I was trying to be especially nice for her. She told me that she liked somebody else. I didn't mind, rather, I tried to help her with him. Even though I didn't even know the guy, I wanted to just be good friends with her. This had worked the last time I did this for a girl, and I thought this would work with her. She mentioned that her parents wouldn't let her go out with anybody, which I could understand. So I end up being a great motivational speaker, telling her what I think she should do, and being there for her when she needed help, trying to be a great friend. In about a month or maybe two to three weeks, she tells me saying that we can't be friends anymore. Why? Because apparently we're total opposites. She tells me that she was a cynical b-tch, and that she didn't really want to be friends with me through high school (we were separating at this point). I tried to make amends with her, as best as I could, and it was to no avail. She even went so far as to not talk to me, and she severed all ties with me. I was furious at the time, but now I'm a better person for it. And last August, I sent a message to her Facebook after she deleted me from her friends list (not something that's a major offense, but it's pretty bad)about the entire situation and what was going through my mind. She ends up blocking me from Facebook and having her dad threaten me. In the middle of all of this, she said something about one of the people in our middle school, and about him being an asshole, but he had a sweet side apparently... from what I heard, she's going out with him.

That's my story. I'm a much better person for what she did though, and much more cautious to people like that again.

Can you clear up a few things for me? What exactly is middle school? and how did her dad threaten you?

Middle school is the school after elementary school and before high school. So this is from 8th grade. And her dad told me never to talk to her again, not sure if he threatened me with pain though.(I deleted the message like straight afterwards). What's funny is my mom was friends with her mom... I don't know if they ever talked about this though.

Ok it makes more sense now (When I read middle school I think 4,5,6th grades) but I agree with you, you are better off now

 

[artanis_neravar]

I might be a little too young to throw in my $0.02, but I'll go ahead and do it.

I've been "nice" pretty much most of my life. I've have what some people might call, a kind heart, I help my friends out vigorously, even if it means sacrificing my own time or money, all that kind of things. I've also been called sweet, by a bunch of other girls as well. But I've been completely puzzled by this as well. I see people who treat women/girls with disrespect actually have girlfriends of their own.

I'll tell you a story. I used to like this girl in middle school (last year, actually). I made it pretty obvious that I liked her, I even told her quite a few times (by text messages). In the beginning of when I liked her, she told me that she might hurt me emotionally. I didn't really care. I was trying to be especially nice for her. She told me that she liked somebody else. I didn't mind, rather, I tried to help her with him. Even though I didn't even know the guy, I wanted to just be good friends with her. This had worked the last time I did this for a girl, and I thought this would work with her. She mentioned that her parents wouldn't let her go out with anybody, which I could understand. So I end up being a great motivational speaker, telling her what I think she should do, and being there for her when she needed help, trying to be a great friend. In about a month or maybe two to three weeks, she tells me saying that we can't be friends anymore. Why? Because apparently we're total opposites. She tells me that she was a cynical b-tch, and that she didn't really want to be friends with me through high school (we were separating at this point). I tried to make amends with her, as best as I could, and it was to no avail. She even went so far as to not talk to me, and she severed all ties with me. I was furious at the time, but now I'm a better person for it. And last August, I sent a message to her Facebook after she deleted me from her friends list (not something that's a major offense, but it's pretty bad)about the entire situation and what was going through my mind. She ends up blocking me from Facebook and having her dad threaten me. In the middle of all of this, she said something about one of the people in our middle school, and about him being an asshole, but he had a sweet side apparently... from what I heard, she's going out with him.

That's my story. I'm a much better person for what she did though, and much more cautious to people like that again.

Can you clear up a few things for me? What exactly is middle school? and how did her dad threaten you?

not trying to sound offensive, but where do you live where there is not a middle school?

just curious. i know other countries call it differently, but if you are in the U.S. i am in utter shock.

Middle school for me is 4,5,6 and Junior High School is 7,8. However I know that other places have different grades in middle school so I try to clarify. This make more sense knowing its a 15-16ish year old rather than a 9-12 year old

EDIT: I am from the US, I was raised in Maine

 

[La Barata]

Let me give you a bit of an analogy. Remember the story about The Grasshopper and the Ant? How while the ant spent all his time working hard, making sure he was well provided for, being responsible while the grasshopper dicked around and did whatever he felt like? Then, winter came, and the grasshopper's completely fucked. So he comes crawling to the ant, who, depending on the version of the story, either took him in or said "go die in a hole". The grasshopper is a woman, and the ant is a nice guy. The women run about doing whatever and whoever the fuck they feel like while the nice guy does his best to be productive and prepare for the future. Then, all of a sudden, winter will come. The woman will realize she's gotten older, or her douchebag boyfriend will break up with her, or something like that. Then where does she turn? She comes crawling back to the nice guy, who, being a nice guy, will be there for her, be comforting, let her ***** and moan about her ex, or how much everything sucks for little old her. He'll take it and he won't complain, because he's a nice guy. At this point, one of two things will happen. Either she'll finally realize it's a bad fucking idea to date douchebags and assholes and might get together with him (this usually only happens after age 30) or she'll friend zone him so hard his balls fall off, then run off again next spring (new douchebag or old one takes her back), only to do it all over again the next year.

That just sounds like some kind of wishful thinking 'karma' story for some person who felt entitled to a girl's affection since he was being 'nice' (manipulative) and didn't get it.

That was rather unfair and uncalled for. Entirely so. You don't particularly agree with something I've said, so you immediately begin to try and brush it all off by saying I must be a manipulative person who feels entitled to having people's affection? That's really quite petty of you.

I'm basing it off of the way the thing is presented. She comes crawling back? The whole scenario practically seems to imply that she somehow wronged the guy. But all she did was date someone else. I'm not sure how that's gonna work out unless he was somehow entitled to her affection.

Hm, I see your point. I can definitely see how it'd come off that way, I suppose. I probably should have worded that differently. And yes, while I HAVE been in several bad relationships (the stories I could tell...) none of them were like that. I merely meant to say how some girls tend to use legitimately nice guys who make it very clear that they're interested in them on a regular basis, leading them on between dating jerks. Because you have to admit, that happens far more often than is fair.

 

[Zaik]

Not unless you have obscene amounts of cash or a nice enough body that you can get women regardless of your attitude.

If you're just nice, they can get what they want(attention) from you without needing to initiate a relationship. Why should they?

As many a 25 year old has said before, why buy the milk when the cow is free? It works the other way too.

Edit: Wow I screwed that up. I think I was trying to say "Why buy the cow when the milk is free". I think. I'm still not sure.

 

[mikev7.0]

This question is for all the ladies (especially the Dutch ones):
Are girls still interested in nice guys or is there really no more hope for us?

It has recently (past 17 years) come to my attention that a lot of men act like jerks in front of women, and the women seem to be enjoying it. Which leads me to think that women nowadays are attracted to complete douches.

(Un)fortunately, I don't belong to that specific group, and I consider myself to be a nice and confident guy.
In fact, my last date said it wasn't gonna work out because I was too nice.
Now I've tried to be a jerk, but I don't like myself anymore when I do that.
And neither do other people, so it would seem I am doing something terribly wrong.

Is there still any chance for us? We are just regular guys, except for that we aren't complete douches.

Also I've noticed that especially city girls are attracted to jerks, please comment on that too

Ok, I've read the replies and I'd like to delve deeper in the "some do like nice guys, some like jerks" thing. Now I believe that. Problem is I can't seem to find the ones that like nice guys. I just run into jerk-loving girls OR girls that already are in relations with other nice guys.

From personal experience and having a lot of friends who are "nice guys" I can tell you that yes, psychologically speaking it is easier to attract women not if you are a jerk, but if you don't act as if they hung the freakin' moon. Just be your normal, nice self and don't act as if whether she says yes or no matters so damned much okay? Just go up, ask her out and remember some do, some don't, so what? There's only like 5 billion of them anyway....

Also (again from occasionally painful experience) most girls who go for jerks are either issue or baggage laden and you don't want to attempt to persue anything meaningful with them anyway.

Best of wishes in your (and others) search, and so long as your looking in the right places just remember something that we all learn from our beloved video games: Panic Fire Works. In other words? If you can't aim? Shoot LOTS.

 

[Zaverexus]

Actually, as a nice (to nice girls) guy I can say I usually don't have too much trouble with girls I like. For the main reason that I don't like the kind of girl who likes jerks. The thing is that dating is never easy, no matter who you are you will have some issues, just relax about it.
That said, I acknowledge that there are some girls who like jerks, but they aren't the girls you want to go out with.

 

[La Barata]

Let me give you a bit of an analogy. Remember the story about The Grasshopper and the Ant? How while the ant spent all his time working hard, making sure he was well provided for, being responsible while the grasshopper dicked around and did whatever he felt like? Then, winter came, and the grasshopper's completely fucked. So he comes crawling to the ant, who, depending on the version of the story, either took him in or said "go die in a hole". The grasshopper is a woman, and the ant is a nice guy. The women run about doing whatever and whoever the fuck they feel like while the nice guy does his best to be productive and prepare for the future. Then, all of a sudden, winter will come. The woman will realize she's gotten older, or her douchebag boyfriend will break up with her, or something like that. Then where does she turn? She comes crawling back to the nice guy, who, being a nice guy, will be there for her, be comforting, let her ***** and moan about her ex, or how much everything sucks for little old her. He'll take it and he won't complain, because he's a nice guy. At this point, one of two things will happen. Either she'll finally realize it's a bad fucking idea to date douchebags and assholes and might get together with him (this usually only happens after age 30) or she'll friend zone him so hard his balls fall off, then run off again next spring (new douchebag or old one takes her back), only to do it all over again the next year.

That just sounds like some kind of wishful thinking 'karma' story for some person who felt entitled to a girl's affection since he was being 'nice' (manipulative) and didn't get it.

That was rather unfair and uncalled for. Entirely so. You don't particularly agree with something I've said, so you immediately begin to try and brush it all off by saying I must be a manipulative person who feels entitled to having people's affection? That's really quite petty of you.

I'm basing it off of the way the thing is presented. She comes crawling back? The whole scenario practically seems to imply that she somehow wronged the guy. But all she did was date someone else. I'm not sure how that's gonna work out unless he was somehow entitled to her affection.

Hm, I see your point. I can definitely see how it'd come off that way, I suppose. I probably should have worded that differently. And yes, while I HAVE been in several bad relationships (the stories I could tell...) none of them were like that. I merely meant to say how some girls tend to use legitimately nice guys who make it very clear that they're interested in them on a regular basis, leading them on between dating jerks. Because you have to admit, that happens far more often than is fair.

From what I have seen, if a dude thinks a girl is "leading him on" for a long period of time,

A) (most likely) it's all in his head
or
B) she's not actually into him - she's into attention

Either way, the answer is to move on.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make, that some girls are just so wrapped up in themselves that they need to leech as much attention as they possibly can from the people around them, it doesn't matter who they hurt.

 

[RaikuFA]

besides. isnt it a double standard? girl is androphobic shes awarded for being courageous in a "male dominant society" a guy has gynophobia and hes considered a freak

No, she's concidered to be a vicious man hating straw feminist and hated by both men, liberarians, and true feminists.

I'm sure that if you looked hard enough you could find people that sympathise with misogynists, but they're all just in hiding.

yeah but theyre as rare as a shiny chansey

 

[La Barata]

Let me give you a bit of an analogy. Remember the story about The Grasshopper and the Ant? How while the ant spent all his time working hard, making sure he was well provided for, being responsible while the grasshopper dicked around and did whatever he felt like? Then, winter came, and the grasshopper's completely fucked. So he comes crawling to the ant, who, depending on the version of the story, either took him in or said "go die in a hole". The grasshopper is a woman, and the ant is a nice guy. The women run about doing whatever and whoever the fuck they feel like while the nice guy does his best to be productive and prepare for the future. Then, all of a sudden, winter will come. The woman will realize she's gotten older, or her douchebag boyfriend will break up with her, or something like that. Then where does she turn? She comes crawling back to the nice guy, who, being a nice guy, will be there for her, be comforting, let her ***** and moan about her ex, or how much everything sucks for little old her. He'll take it and he won't complain, because he's a nice guy. At this point, one of two things will happen. Either she'll finally realize it's a bad fucking idea to date douchebags and assholes and might get together with him (this usually only happens after age 30) or she'll friend zone him so hard his balls fall off, then run off again next spring (new douchebag or old one takes her back), only to do it all over again the next year.

That just sounds like some kind of wishful thinking 'karma' story for some person who felt entitled to a girl's affection since he was being 'nice' (manipulative) and didn't get it.

That was rather unfair and uncalled for. Entirely so. You don't particularly agree with something I've said, so you immediately begin to try and brush it all off by saying I must be a manipulative person who feels entitled to having people's affection? That's really quite petty of you.

I'm basing it off of the way the thing is presented. She comes crawling back? The whole scenario practically seems to imply that she somehow wronged the guy. But all she did was date someone else. I'm not sure how that's gonna work out unless he was somehow entitled to her affection.

Hm, I see your point. I can definitely see how it'd come off that way, I suppose. I probably should have worded that differently. And yes, while I HAVE been in several bad relationships (the stories I could tell...) none of them were like that. I merely meant to say how some girls tend to use legitimately nice guys who make it very clear that they're interested in them on a regular basis, leading them on between dating jerks. Because you have to admit, that happens far more often than is fair.

From what I have seen, if a dude thinks a girl is "leading him on" for a long period of time,

A) (most likely) it's all in his head
or
B) she's not actually into him - she's into attention

Either way, the answer is to move on.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make, that some girls are just so wrapped up in themselves that they need to leech as much attention as they possibly can from the people around them, it doesn't matter who they hurt.

But to be fair there are plenty of dudes like that too. Human beings in general love us some attention.

Oh god yes. Tying into what I said, there are god knows how many douchebags out there who want one thing and one thing only, and willing to do and say whatever they need to to get it.

 

[ultrachicken]

The notion that girls only like jerks or that they don't like nice guys is bullshit. Everyone has their own taste in personality.

 

[XzarTheMad]

"Nice guys" are more often than not guys with no real balls. Main thing you gotta realize is, girls are human beings. They can't read your mind. If you want more than the friend zone, you need to speak up. If you have the hots for someone, tell them. Yes, you might get rejected. The first couple of times you probably will. But the odds of someone liking you back is a lot better this way than you staying silent. Overall, though, have a personality. If you're a geek, don't hide it. Yes, many of the popular girls won't understand or like it. You might get mocked. But truthfully, you want someone who you can be yourself around. And only someone who shares your interests will do in that regard. So, have some balls, be yourself, talk to girls who you like and don't be afraid of asking them out, even if they reject you.

This is from a guy who's been with the same, nerdy girl for 7 years now. I found out that pining for her wasn't doing the trick. I made a move. Now I live with her. And she even likes me for me. How about that.

As a last note, don't call yourself a "nice guy". To most people, this puts you in a very specific box of being a self-centered, sexist-without-realizing-it, overly horny and underwhelmingly attractive (by any standards, sexually and personality-wise), entitled social retard who blames women for hating "good guys" without realizing that the only thing those 20 women they wanted to hump had in common was knowing the same "nice" guy.

 

[_observer_]

I agree. It's not so much that we like jerks, it's that we notice them more because they're a little flashier. They're also more likely to come up and ask us out than the nice guy who, as far as we know, just genuinely wants to be friends. Try being a little more forward. If you really are a nice guy, you probably have some space before you turn creepy. This doesn't mean being someone you hate - just be a little clearer that you're interested in more than friendship. You'll get turned down sometimes, yes, but if you're nice about asking we'll usually try to set you down gently if we're not interested. The obvious exceptions to this are bitches, and they're best left to the assholes anyway.

 

[Commissar Sae]

As a man who was once in this position, there is hope since i found a wonderful girl. But yeah you have to be confident and assertive as well. Not looking desperately for a girlfriend is also helpful, since when you pretty much stop looking at each girl as a potential date and more like an actual person you act more natural.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

This question is for all the ladies (especially the Dutch ones):
Are girls still interested in nice guys or is there really no more hope for us?

It has recently (past 17 years) come to my attention that a lot of men act like jerks in front of women, and the women seem to be enjoying it. Which leads me to think that women nowadays are attracted to complete douches.

(Un)fortunately, I don't belong to that specific group, and I consider myself to be a nice and confident guy.
In fact, my last date said it wasn't gonna work out because I was too nice.
Now I've tried to be a jerk, but I don't like myself anymore when I do that.
And neither do other people, so it would seem I am doing something terribly wrong.

Is there still any chance for us? We are just regular guys, except for that we aren't complete douches.

Also I've noticed that especially city girls are attracted to jerks, please comment on that too

Ok, I've read the replies and I'd like to delve deeper in the "some do like nice guys, some like jerks" thing. Now I believe that. Problem is I can't seem to find the ones that like nice guys. I just run into jerk-loving girls OR girls that already are in relations with other nice guys.

I'm not a lady and I'm not Dutch. Also, what I have to say has probably been said already somewhere in the 6 pages of this thread. But fuckit, I'll say it anyway.

Firstly, Freud was right, or at least close. All that fuck mummy kill daddy stuff was not far off the mark. What I'm getting at here is that most girls look for a guy who is somewhat like their father. Yeah, I know it's kinda fucked up, but there you go. If their dad was a jerk then they will like jerks.

But I don't think that many girls had dads who were jerks. The rest of them are not attracted to jerks because they are jerks, they're attracted to them in spite of it. It's the confidence that they find attractive. And can you blame them? Confidence is the most important factor in how well a man will do at work, in a crisis, in bed, and so on. There's an old saying: "it's not the size of the dog in the fight that matters; it's the size of the fight in the dog". Women know this. They also know that when the chips are down, they'd rather have an asshole who can get them out of the shit than a wuss who can sympathise with how they feel about being in the shit. But ideally, what they'd really like is a guy who can do both.

Edit
And another thing...
Keep in mind when reading your answers here that this is a multinational forum and this sort of thing really does vary a lot from one country to another. For example:
I'm British, and in Britain - as a general rule - the guy has to chase the girl. But I also spend a lot of time in the US (I'm employed by a company based in the US) and it's very different there. The US society is more male-dominated, people are much more materialistic, and there's no real safety net for people who find themselves down and out. As a consequence the idea of the male as a provider/protector is much stronger there, which shifts the balance of power between the genders (at least in comparison to Britain). The result is that women in the US are much more forthright in showing interest in a man, and what they're interested in has as much to do with practicality as personality.
So, take the answers from non-Dutch people (including me) with a grain of salt.

 

[joshthor]

the answer: yes. not at 17 though. until they have dated around and figured out what they want, girls are just that - girls. they will date douchey guys who are assholes. when they get older though - and realize they dated a bunch of assholes, they will warm up to nice guys. cause... well.. they arent girls anymore - they are women. for now though, if you wanna be a nice guy it wont be easy. randomly slap them on the ass. thats what i do.

 

[Leole]

17 years of being nice paid off.

I agree with what most of these guys say, girls don't go for nice because it's predictable and boring, so they'd rather get her heart broken by a jerk who does SOMETHING, than a nice guy who would only do her bidding.

I've been nice, chivalrous for the past 17 years, like my parents taught me. But I didn't stopped there. I am smart, so jokes come easy on me, and I play by that, I tell jokes or funny situations, I am good at gaming and I enjoy doing it, I am weird to some extent and I don't mind that, I yell, I run, I do things people usually wouldn't, etcetera.

I hanged with girls who happen to enjoy some of the things I like, and it was just a matter of time before one of them got interested in my geeky-ness. We hit it off, and now I'm dating her. (Not to imply you must wait for her to do the first move)

The trick is to not wait for love, and keep living live as happy as you can. Love will come naturally to you. Call it fate, karma, chaos or coincidence, whatever, it just happens.

Pro-Tip: I hate going out, or to "PAR-TEY", or whatever, human interactions still elude me, I don't like meeting new people, I'm not that good looking, and the girl I'm dating is just WAY out of my league. Like I said, IT JUST HAPPENS.

 

[Death God]

I've seen this thread a million times but I'll answer anyways. I'm also 17 and, sadly, at this age, no. Girls our age are usually looking for the bad boy. Wait a few years and nice guys like us will usually get the girls. All I can say man.

 

[Lerasai]

Girls say they like "nice and funny guys" and go for jerks the same way guys say they like "sweet and down-to-earth" girls and go for the bitchy ones. Which is to say, it is mostly in your head and the rest of it is just shallowness on their part or a need for petty excitement in their lives.

When I get frustrated that even "nice" guys treat me like I'm a piece of furniture, despite the fact that I probably have more in common with them interest-wise than the air-headed girls they keep flocking to, I just tell myself that it is their loss and I'm probably not missing out on anything special anyway. And then I laugh because I suck at lying to myself, have some Lindor truffles, and attempt to get my breast size to increase by sheer force of will.

 

[tjs09]

Want bitches? Get money.

Words to live by. XD

 

[i7omahawki]

Nice guys don't get girls, and I think that is deserved, depending on your definition of 'nice'.

All the guys I know who self-identify as nice, and indeed are labelled as such by others, are usually jerks in hiding. They are people who lack the power or confidence to be jerks, so they are nice out of self-preservation rather than geniune compassion.

Now, I consider myself a good person, but that doesn't mean I'm nice to everyone, or anyone on certain days. Especially when it is not even in that person's interest. People can get themselves into cycles that depend on another person being 'nice' to them, and the cycle can only continue if they exist, otherwise they have to pull themselves together to get through it.

For me, nice guys are weak guys, or at least you'll present yourself as being weak. Showing self direction, and challenging somebody else in their values or goals shows that you have strength, but do so considerately and you'll also show you're compassionate. You don't have to be a jerk to not be a nice guy, and I don't think you can be either if you want to be a good guy.