Poll: Do you fear death?
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Wait, what's the logic there? If there's no point in finding greater meaning because it's not logical, and we should just try to enjoy what little we have to the fullest, then following a happy delusion is a great idea.OmniscientOstrich said:
Anything that makes you happier in your short life is a good idea. Considering, like you said, all you can really do is live your life to the fullest by being as happy as possible.
Why would contradict that by saying people should choose logic over happiness? I'm an Atheist, too. An outspoken Atheist, at that. But I'm tired of Atheists saying things like this. It seems completely illogical.
The logic that being logical is good, because it benefits society, is sound. But saying that people should be logical about spirituality, because it's a waste of short human life that should be spent being happy, and then telling people, right after saying that since there is no afterlife, people should do what makes them happy, that they should choose a mentality that makes them less happy, because it's logical, in their short life, is contradictory. Incredibly so.
If life is so short that people should use ever bit to be as happy as possible, then a delusion of God or the like is a great way to spend it. It may not be good for society if you spread that unproductive delusion. But it is comforting to the self. Which again, if the goal is happiness, spiritual delusions, God, spirits, afterlife, all that, is a great way to improve happiness.
Logically, the only thing that not having a delusional belief in the afterlife gives me, is the desperate hope and willpower to work towards extending my life as long as possible.
I want to say no, but the way my personality is it has to be yes. Its probably caused by the fact that I have no comfort zone with death other than possibly dying next to someone I love so I could die in comfort. The whole heaven thing just doesn't strike me as realistic.
I would have to say I have been running into that same wall for a while now. The thought of nothing, which does not exist in our universe, is absolutely mind bending. It is like trying to look into a place that can not be seen. As far as some kind of after life, I am of two minds. On the one hand, the more reasoned and scientific, I know that every idea ever conceived about the soul can be explained by the presence of the brain. This means that when my brain ceases to function, so will I. On the other hand, there is a part of me that is reluctant to think that I am going to miss out on the rest of this great experience we call life. If there were to be some sort of "afterlife" I do not believe it would be in the sense of any of the religions have come to perpetuate. I am sure it would be beyond our current understanding. Again, there is a very likely chance that there is not such a form of existence.
There is one escape method popular among animists and pantheists, and that's the idea that the electrons firings of the brain that create the consciousness, are able to essentially "escape", or rather culminate into the different waves and frequencies common on our planet. Thus creating a "ghost" of sorts that exists within the waves.silvermorning624 said:
Of course, this is just wishful thinking. There is no proof of even the memories of human beings that weren't directly recorded while they were alive, existing within the frequencies. Or even whether waves are beefy enough to even be able to contain something as big as a consciousness. Therefor it is illogical to believe that ghosts exist within the waves in our planet. It is, at least, a hypothesis that doesn't seem to have a lot of contradictory findings. And is generally not contradictory to most established scientific theories. Or at least ones that I am educated on. Which I get the feeling it is and I've just never heard it. I'd certainly like to hear how this hypothesis is already debunked or could be tested if it is not already.
It's surprising how many fellow atheists have never heard of such a common religious hypothesis as this, though. Sure, it's not as common as Christian "God is bigger" thinking. But it is an incredibly common hypothesis among the Pagan community. And such logic as this and Gaia hypothesis and other spiritually inspired kinds of hypothesis, are a leading cause of religious conversion to Animism and Naturalist Pantheism instead of Atheism.
Sneaking religious ideas into their belief, based upon nothing other than a apparent lack of evidence against it. Which isn't logical. Being merely an unfounded hypothesis of wishful thinking(Paganism), that slips in the cracks of what science has absolutely disproven. Which is a call for scientists to provide new evidence to disprove religious ideas that have slipped through the cracks, or provide already existing ideas that disprove varying Pagan types of hypothesis.
Yes, I fear death. But I also have faith and confidence in life after death. It's a door one can only go through once, though, and it's natural to fear dying before you can do everything in this life that you want to do.
So is suffering.Rnr1224 said:
And what does it matter if one goes out in a boring on an interesting fashion? You won't be around to enjoy the fireworks of your passing.
I wouldn't call it unknown, it's a pretty high likelihood that death means losing everything.
And by high likelihood, I mean like dropping a ball and expecting it to hit the floor/ground beneath you.
And by high likelihood, I mean like dropping a ball and expecting it to hit the floor/ground beneath you.
That's not what I'm saying. If someone believes in a deity(s) or afterlife because that is the most logical conclusion they draw and that conclusion subsequently comforts them, then fair enough. But if they are willfully ignoring their own sense of logic solely on the basis that they find it 'comforting' or it makes them 'happy' then that is retarded and moreover it's god damn soft. No, following a delusion is never a fucking good idea, if people's only reason for rejecting nihilism is because the thought upsets them, then that is fucking pathetic. I'm just saying that peolpe should follow whatever seems most logical to them and not abandon or ignore their sense of skepticism just because it makes them happy. 'If ignorence is bliss, then knock the smile off my face.'LilithSlave said:
And if that's what your frame of logic has lead you to believe then fair enough but I hope your not just dismissing nihilism because you find it bleak, but rather because you find it illogical. As I said earlier follow what seems most logical to you, not which makes you happiest. I'm not saying they can't be one in the same, I'm saying don't sacrifice the former to achieve the latter.DRes82 said:
Sometimes I go through phases of being terrified of death, as if I'm being chocked and trapped into it and there's no escape.
Most of the time I try not to think about it.
But I'd rather believe there's a possibility of an afterlife than not, even if there isn't, if it meant peace of mind.
Maybe that's shallow but so what?
Most of the time I try not to think about it.
But I'd rather believe there's a possibility of an afterlife than not, even if there isn't, if it meant peace of mind.
Maybe that's shallow but so what?
Ha! Yeah, kind of ironic that I fear death, yet have an album cover by the band 'Death' as my avatar. I guess it's the same kind of subconscious thing about watching black comedies, being able to laugh at death makes one more comfortable with the thought of their own inevitable demise. Or maybe I'm just overthinking it and people just love to see violence.Kris015 said:I don't fear MY death. I fear the death of my girlfriend though.
Haha, awesome avatarOmniscientOstrich said:
And what's wrong with being soft? A subjective human sentiment?OmniscientOstrich said:
Happiness is a soft, weak thing.
The fate of our lives are pathetic.OmniscientOstrich said:
Nothing logical about that. It's illogical if the truth is that life is short and the subjective goal in mind is to derive the maximum pleasure out of it.OmniscientOstrich said:
Logic is a tool, and it constantly goes against our own subjective happiness.
If people should be happy, then people should use logic in a logical fashion, and only use the tool when it suits their own personal happiness.
I do support people using logic many times over what makes them happy. But that's mostly an ethical perspective, that their displeasure benefits society.
LilithSlave said:
You can't just abandon your own logical framework whenever it's convenient for you, that's the same kind of cherry picking bullshit that Fundamentalist Christians operate by. You can't just shy away from logically approaching something just because you'd be happier if you're oblvious, that's not confronting the issue, that's just waltzing through life with a fucking blindfold on. It's only going to do more harm to the person if they're willing to lie to themsleves for the sake of their own happiness, rather than actually be willing to confront their feelings of doubt and confliction.
Where in your entire rebuttal have you provided a logical reason. Instead of just saying things like "that's bad because that's what bad Christians do" or "that's weak and hiding" or something like that.
People can do whatever makes them happy if being happy is what people should be. Being happy is what people should be, or it isn't. It's illogical to just back out of it like that, and just looks like a ill argued agenda against religion.
Since, logically, life is short and pointless, why should people do things that aren't convenient for them? Why should people confront an issue if it means wasting their short life on something unhappy? What's wrong with waltzing through life with a blindfold on? How is it going to do more harm to them if it makes them happy?
The good of society is the only reason. Personally, I believe in this reason. I support logic above happiness because I think that supporting the inverse of that is selfish and hurts society. But if I believed that people should just be happy, even if it's selfish and doesn't fit hedonism/utilitarianism, then I would support believing in delusions all the way.
People can do whatever makes them happy if being happy is what people should be. Being happy is what people should be, or it isn't. It's illogical to just back out of it like that, and just looks like a ill argued agenda against religion.
Since, logically, life is short and pointless, why should people do things that aren't convenient for them? Why should people confront an issue if it means wasting their short life on something unhappy? What's wrong with waltzing through life with a blindfold on? How is it going to do more harm to them if it makes them happy?
The good of society is the only reason. Personally, I believe in this reason. I support logic above happiness because I think that supporting the inverse of that is selfish and hurts society. But if I believed that people should just be happy, even if it's selfish and doesn't fit hedonism/utilitarianism, then I would support believing in delusions all the way.