Poll: Do you think I stand a chance?

[Slayer_2]

Not to be a downer, but likely not. It's worth a shot, though, and the fact that you're trying to change some thing is great. You can't win if you don't play, as I always say.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

No you haven't got a snowball's chance in a thermonuclear reaction detonated on the Sun while being sucked in a blackhole's chance of getting this through. It is a private school and like al private schools they will do as they please. Regardless of equality and fairness all that jazz this one thing really shoots the whole thing in the foot.

Not to be pessimistic but given that it is a private school I would put good money on this petition doing nothing.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

Why do so many people think asking on the internet is going to provide some magical power that will make everything all better? If you've gone to the trouble of getting a petition, why not just follow through with it? See if you can get some parents and/or teachers to agree to sign it as well (teachers are a bit iffy though as they might be worried about getting fired).

The worst the school can do is say no. Asking around on the internet isn't going to get you anywhere.

 

[Batou667]

But the uniform doesn't need to be bought in the first place: the person in question has clothes already. Clothes that aren't limited to where one can wear them. And it wasn't a non sequitur. Uniforms were implemented in schools just like they were implemented in the military: Conformity through uniformity. It's a method of attempting to break-down individuality, but is far less effective in this age of self interest almost starting at birth. It's archaic, unnecessary, and adds an expense where there need not be one.

And I resent the implication of that second paragraph. It has nothing to do with what I typed.

There are clothes, and then there are clothes. Sure, a kid might have plenty of casual clothes, but when they know they're going to be in an environment where they're with their peers (not to mention that girl/guy they have a crush on) then they're going to want to a) look good and b) not wear the same outfit every day. Like I already mentioned, when a lot of young kids see designer labels and sports brands as the baseline standard, this can be very financially demanding for the parents and segregates the kids into the haves and have-nots. It's financial hassle that the parents don't need, and yet another social stumbling-block for the children.

If your opinion of school uniform is that it's a tool of dehumanisation and drains children of individuality then I'm afraid I've got to flat-out disagree. I went to schools that had compulsory uniform from the age of 5 to 16 and I never noticed these ill-effects, either on myself or my classmates. More recently, I've spent the last 5 years of my adult life working in schools and with children outside of school. The vast majority of these kids wear uniform on a day-to-day basis. They are most definitely not unthinking hivemind drones with no personalities (if they were, my job would be a damn sight easier).

To summarise, as I feel I'm repeating myself; school uniform might seem a strange, old-fashioned or even oppressive idea, but if you feel this way chances are you never wore school uniform and are just making uninformed guesses. Here in the UK at least, school uniform is seen as completely normal. It doesn't control or homogenise children in the slightest, except on the very most superficial, surface level of physical appearance - saying a child's uniform straight-jackets their actions, creativity or individuality is like saying they are similarly restricted by their skin or hair colour. School uniform also eliminates from education an aspect of the culture of consuming and acquisition which is sadly prevalent here. It's egalitarian, long-wearing and in the vast majority of cases really quite inexpensive. In the UK at least, uniform is the most correct and sensible choice of schoolwear.

No need to get bent out of shape by my tl;dr. It was meant light-heartedly, but nonetheless I do get the impression that you think school uniform is a vestigal remnant of stuffy tradition - which it isn't.

Take your daily dose of Fukitol

That is brilliant and I'm going to steal it.

 

[zxvcasdfqwerzxcv]

Unless you get staff (and to a lesser extent parents, but only if its LOTS of parents) signatures then you don't have a chance in hell. Private schools can have their own set of rules!

Also I'm not sure about your reasons being all that valid. Sure it would be of benefit to those of indeterminate or ambiguous gender, but I doubt the school would see that as a valid point, considering the numbers of students would be so low. What IS a gender neutral uniform anyway? A burlap sack? Because I don't think everyone in trousers (or skirts) is the way forward! Plus, imo, men and women, masculinity and femininity are fundamentally different. They should be treated with equal dignity but otherwise are very different!

 

[AngloDoom]

This thread is just another example of people going too far when fighting for a theoretically good cause. And things like that are beginning to be frequent lately.

Yes, it is wrong to discriminate one of genders, claim one of them is superior, but we have to remember, that men and women are different. You can scream and shout all you want, but it won't change the fact that men and women are built bit differently, and we have to take these things in account. You can't just pretend like girls don't have breasts and men don't have penises, and even if you could, what's the point? Most people like who they are, and if some don't, well, they should try to work on themselves not try to bend everyone to their vision of society.

Also, I never got the point of school uniforms existence. In my country we don't have them and nothing bad happens because of it.

I can understand why you feel like that to some degree, but this isn't about understandable differences: this is about boys and girls being told they can and can't wear certain things because of their gender. If a guy wants to wear a skirt then he should be able to: there's no biological barrier preventing them.

Also, school uniform is a great way to squeeze money out of parents. "Oh, you want to join our school? You have to buy our uniform off of certain retailers for many times the price of a similar shirt, who will then give us a cut of the profits."

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Where do you live because we did this and we used the 'We are freezing to death every winter so we would like to wear pants please' excuse. I think that's probably more effective as you get the worried mums on board too.

It will be harder to get them to allow boys to wear skirts though...

I hated wearing school uniform mostly because I was big girl and it never fit me properly. It was so much better in 6th form where I could wear my own clothes and be comfortable and not feel anxious about the way I looked.

 

[Radelaide]

There is so much wrong with this thread I can't even put it into words.

1st: A gender-specific uniform isn't sexist or discrimination. That's just stupid.
2nd: Putting the girls in skirts and the boys in pants isn't dividing the two. That's hormones.
3rd: Gender-neutral students are going to have issues anyway.

That's what I can put up with so far.

 

[Penguin_Factory]

In the primary and secondary school I went to (a small Irish private school, so there are some parallels), the girls just started wearing trousers one year when they got fed up with the skirts in winter. In both instances the schools himmed and hawwed for a few weeks and then just accepted it. The same thing happened with students wearing their school jumpers in Summer. Hell, by sixth year my class had managed to stop wearing ties.

I think organizing some sort of mass "wear trousers" day will be a lot more effective than a petition. The school can (and probably will) ignore your petition, but if a load of girls come in wearing the same uniform as the boys there's nothing they can really do. You need a lot of people to do it though, they'll just give a handful of people detention.

If you really want to play the rebel, try getting the local media involved somehow. This could be your ace in the hole, as there have been several instances in the past where schools have caved on this sort of thing once the public eye turned on them.

While we're on the subject, I get the purpose of uniforms and I don't have a problem with the basic idea, I just never got why they had to be so uncomfortable. I really think wearing a formal shirt and tie effects student's ability to concentrate.

 

[surg3n]

Herp a derp.

Sorry, that seems to be the only fitting comment. I'm worried about the sheer volume of transgender people at your school, or sexually confused - to the point where a girl wearing a skirt and a boy wearing trousers is an actual problem. I'm not sure how your school would take to the idea of making it easy for transgender etc to experiment. You do realise your at bloody school don't you?

Frankly, it sounds like a bad episode of Glee, and your the little gay guy trying to enforce your awkwardness onto other people. Maybe people should keep the cross-dressing for after school, maybe having a sexually confused boy wearing a hastily assembled mixture of boy and girl clothes is a bad idea. Maybe I'm being to generous with the maybes, in other words it sounds like a pretty arrogant things to come up with, as if everyone has the same issues as you. Like it or not, YOU have to comply with society, you are not in a position to change things that most people simply do not want changed. North Korea are looking for a dictator... ''You will all wear these valour unisex jumpsuit uniforms, designed by me, the cape is optional''.

Snap out of it, it's almost christmas - you have a good couple of weeks of being festive, no need to take it out on your classmates. I mean, why not ask for leniency in the uniform rules, so people can express themselves or wear clothes that they are more comfortable in. Or ask for new options, like sweatshirts instead of jumpers which can easily be unisex. Call me a sexist if you like (I really don't care) - but all those girls in short skirts got me through high school.

 

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

But the uniform doesn't need to be bought in the first place: The person in question has clothes already. Clothes that aren't limited to where one can wear them. And it wasn't a non sequitur. Uniforms were implemented in schools just like they were implemented in the military: Conformity through uniformity. It's a method of attempting to break-down individuality, but is far less effective in this age of self interest almost starting at birth. It's archaic, unnecessary, and adds an expense where there need not be one.

And I resent the implication of that second paragraph. It has nothing to do with what I typed.

There are clothes, and then there are clothes. Sure, a kid might have plenty of casual clothes, but when they know they're going to be in an environment where they're with their peers (not to mention that girl/guy they have a crush on) then they're going to want to a) look good and b) not wear the same outfit every day. Like I already mentioned, when a lot of young kids see designer labels and sports brands as the baseline standard, this can be very financially demanding for the parents and segregates the kids into the haves and have-nots. It's financial hassle that the parents don't need, and yet another social stumbling-block for the children.

If your opinion of school uniform is that it's a tool of dehumanisation and drains children of individuality then I'm afraid I've got to flat-out disagree. I went to schools that had compulsory uniform from the age of 5 to 16 and I never noticed these ill-effects, either on myself or my classmates. More recently, I've spent the last 5 years of my adult life working in schools and with children outside of school. The vast majority of these kids wear uniform on a day-to-day basis. They are most definitely not unthinking hivemind drones with no personalities (if they were, my job would be a damn sight easier).

To summarise, as I feel I'm repeating myself; school uniform might seem a strange, old-fashioned or even oppressive idea, but if you feel this way chances are you never wore school uniform and are just making uninformed guesses. Here in the UK at least, school uniform is seen as completely normal. It doesn't control or homogenise children in the slightest, except on the very most superficial, surface level of physical appearance - saying a child's uniform straight-jackets their actions, creativity or individuality is like saying they are similarly restricted by their skin or hair colour. School uniform also eliminates from education an aspect of the culture of consuming and acquisition which is sadly prevalent here. It's egalitarian, long-wearing and in the vast majority of cases really quite inexpensive. In the UK at least, uniform is the most correct and sensible choice of schoolwear.

No need to get bent out of shape by my tl;dr. It was meant light-heartedly, but nonetheless I do get the impression that you think school uniform is a vestigal remnant of stuffy tradition - which it isn't.

It's not the actual effect of a uniform that's a problem, it's the desired effect. Schools with uniforms either openly, or subtlety, look down on their students. They need to be kept in line, or prevented from coming to school in loin cloths. In reality, it doesn't affect students very much from a psychological standpoint, but it's part of a larger issue of education not respecting those being educated.

And the whole brand-name peer-pressure thing can be solved by simple parenting.

 

[JesterRaiin]

By starting your petition you do something admirable and good - you fight for what you believe is right. Your points on the other hand are among most wrong i witnessed this year.
Let me elaborate.

1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
2) Sex-specific uniform discriminates against transgendered pupils and forces them to conform with their birth-assigned sex.
3) To deny certain clothing to some pupils because of their random event at their birth, is discriminatory.

1. Sexist this, sexist that. It's too politically correct for my taste. Both genders are different and they should be treated differently. Trying to disprove this simple and obvious fact leads us closer and closer to blurred future populated by androgynous, indeterminated human-things that feel offended by "women" and "man" labels.
2. How many transgender people are in your school ? Isn't that a little "Don Quixote"-ish ?
3. No, in the case of children/students it isn't. I fail to see any discrimination in this.

Also :
- What is students generall opinion on your crusade ?
- Uniforms are right thing. They introduce some basic form of "there are some rules to adhere to" system.

So. Good luck with your endeavor, i hope you'll have good fun with that, learn something about organizing events, fighting for what you consider just and such. Actually it may be one of most valuable lessons you'll learn. In the same time i hope you won't succeed.

 

[Phasmal]

1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.

1. Sexist this, sexist that. It's too politically correct for my taste. Both genders are different and they should be treated differently. Trying to disprove this simple and obvious fact leads us closer and closer to blurred future populated by androgynous, indeterminated human-things that feel offended by "women" and "man" labels.

Thats a bit overdramatic, dont you think?
Yeah, women and men are different, but what exactly about my reproductive organs mandate that I must wear a skirt?

I went to an all girl school where skirts were (almost) mandatory. There were trousers but they were so ugly very few girls wanted to wear them, but at least they had the option. Wearing skirts in winter is pretty horrible.

 

[JesterRaiin]

1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.

1. Sexist this, sexist that. It's too politically correct for my taste. Both genders are different and they should be treated differently. Trying to disprove this simple and obvious fact leads us closer and closer to blurred future populated by androgynous, indeterminated human-things that feel offended by "women" and "man" labels.

Thats a bit overdramatic, dont you think?
Yeah, women and men are different, but what exactly about my reproductive organs mandate that I must wear a skirt?

I went to an all girl school where skirts were (almost) mandatory. There were trousers but they were so ugly very few girls wanted to wear them, but at least they had the option. Wearing skirts in winter is pretty horrible.

We live in world and times of global dramatic changes. And almost all of them started with something simple, almost trivial. By accepting small changes, "lesser evils" we end someday in surroundings we don't like. It's simple as that. Overdramatic ? If you think so.

As i stated before, by wearing uniforms children are introduced into "system". There are plenty of things we can't do in life because our culture, society or any other "system" forbids us to do. Sooner we learn about this, about the way we can deal with it, about cons and pros, the better. For some it will mean accepting "good bevavior", for other - becoming rebels. "Each to his own" - either way is fine with me.

My point is : I'm not against "options". Simply, i think that understanding the way world works is most valuable experience that school can deliver, much more valuable than math, physics, biology geography or whatever schools teach nowadays. And yes, such things as uniforms are part of it.

 

[Phasmal]

1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.

1. Sexist this, sexist that. It's too politically correct for my taste. Both genders are different and they should be treated differently. Trying to disprove this simple and obvious fact leads us closer and closer to blurred future populated by androgynous, indeterminated human-things that feel offended by "women" and "man" labels.

Thats a bit overdramatic, dont you think?
Yeah, women and men are different, but what exactly about my reproductive organs mandate that I must wear a skirt?

I went to an all girl school where skirts were (almost) mandatory. There were trousers but they were so ugly very few girls wanted to wear them, but at least they had the option. Wearing skirts in winter is pretty horrible.

We live in world and times of global dramatic changes. And almost all of them started with something simple, almost trivial. By accepting small changes, "lesser evils" we end someday in surroundings we don't like. It's simple as that. Overdramatic ? If you think so.

As i stated before, by wearing uniforms children are introduced into "system". There are plenty of things we can't do in life because our culture, society or any other "system" forbids us to do. Sooner we learn about this, about the way we can deal with it, about cons and pros, the better. For some it will mean accepting "good bevavior", for other - becoming rebels. "Each to his own" - either way is fine with me.

My point is : I'm not against "options". Simply, i think that understanding the way world works is most valuable experience that school can deliver, much more valuable than math, physics, biology geography or whatever schools teach nowadays. And yes, such things as uniforms are part of it.

Women wearing pants= arrmageddon? <- That is a joke, in case I need point it out.

Kay, that would be an argument against the abolishment of uniforms altogether. But it doesnt really work with sex-specific uniforms. In life, even in our `systems` women can wear trousers. And some men even wear skirts.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Personally, I think you are a pedant, but whatever. I doubt the school or anyone else really cares, so you'll probably fail.

 

[Kriptonite]

You could have all 800 signatures, but without their parent's checks behind them, and a well-organized presentation as well, you're getting nowhere.

 

[JesterRaiin]

1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.

1. Sexist this, sexist that. It's too politically correct for my taste. Both genders are different and they should be treated differently. Trying to disprove this simple and obvious fact leads us closer and closer to blurred future populated by androgynous, indeterminated human-things that feel offended by "women" and "man" labels.

Thats a bit overdramatic, dont you think?
Yeah, women and men are different, but what exactly about my reproductive organs mandate that I must wear a skirt?

I went to an all girl school where skirts were (almost) mandatory. There were trousers but they were so ugly very few girls wanted to wear them, but at least they had the option. Wearing skirts in winter is pretty horrible.

We live in world and times of global dramatic changes. And almost all of them started with something simple, almost trivial. By accepting small changes, "lesser evils" we end someday in surroundings we don't like. It's simple as that. Overdramatic ? If you think so.

As i stated before, by wearing uniforms children are introduced into "system". There are plenty of things we can't do in life because our culture, society or any other "system" forbids us to do. Sooner we learn about this, about the way we can deal with it, about cons and pros, the better. For some it will mean accepting "good bevavior", for other - becoming rebels. "Each to his own" - either way is fine with me.

My point is : I'm not against "options". Simply, i think that understanding the way world works is most valuable experience that school can deliver, much more valuable than math, physics, biology geography or whatever schools teach nowadays. And yes, such things as uniforms are part of it.

Women wearing pants= arrmageddon? <- That is a joke, in case I need point it out.

Kay, that would be an argument against the abolishment of uniforms altogether. But it doesnt really work with sex-specific uniforms. In life, even in our `systems` women can wear trousers. And some men even wear skirts.

It's not about women.
It's not about girls.
It's about misguided rebellion against things that aren't completely useless.
It's about wrongly used "it's sexist" card.

 

[JSDodd]

I like the idea but since it's a private school they'd likely only change it if people threaten to stop paying,

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

I like the idea but don't hold your breathe.