agreed, try and get as much media attention as possible. innocently insult the schools transgender policies and explain the petition to the public. if there is one thing a private school truly fears, it is bad publicity.Pearwood said:If it doesn't go well I'd recommend going to a local newspaper about it, schools are absolutely terrified of any bad publicity at all and this is the kind of thing that might get attention.
Batou667 said:I don't understand your reasoning here. Linking uniform to Victorian-era schooling is a non-sequitur, and if your point was that uniform is expensive, I'm afraid that's simply not the case: buying a varied and modern summer/winter wardrobe for your child is a damn sight more expensive. The shoes alone could cost you more than an entire schol uniform outfit. Particularly poor families often buy second-hand school uniform, and in families of boys/girls many articles can become hand-me-downs.KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life said:Unless there's a school-wide problem with people almost violating indecent exposure laws, school uniforms are asinine. Back in the day when it was encouraged to whoop students' asses and force copious amounts of memorization of rote facts, it was a tool to encourage conformity. Now it's not only that, but a method of gauging the students' families as well.
You'd have a hard time persuading me that getting rid of the whole idea isn't the way to go.
tl;dr: we don't have school uniforms just to endulge our Victorian/Harry Potter fantasies.
This. Analogy win.Regnes said:Imagine if your school decided that all black students should wear a separate uniform, do you think that would be legal?
They can say it's traditional, but it's just as traditional as telling blacks they have to ride at the back of the bus or drink from a separate water fountain, don't see that much anymore do you?
Many are saying that there are differences between the sexes and we shouldn't deny that. This is a very irrelevant point. Because men and women are different we should force them to conform to society's expectation of what they should wear? What does men and women being different have anything to do with gender expression?theriddlen said:You can scream and shout all you want, but it won't change the fact that men and women are built bit differently, and we have to take these things in account. You can't just pretend like girls don't have breasts and men don't have penises, and even if you could, what's the point? Most people like who they are, and if some don't, well, they should try to work on themselves not try to bend everyone to their vision of society.
Guys are always going to look ridiculous in skirts? However many years ago there'd be people saying women will always look ridiculous in pants. This is your opinion, and as society progresses I think we can expect that people will come to see a man in a skirt as increasing less ridiculous... and less "stupid".Bobbity said:If the sole difference between men and women was that guys had penises and girls vaginas, then you could treat them similarly - although guys are always going to look ridiculous in skirts, and trying to wear one to express yourself is, put bluntly, stupid. On that level, you could argue for different uniforms on the basis if aesthetics.
There are clothes, and then there are clothes. Sure, a kid might have plenty of casual clothes, but when they know they're going to be in an environment where they're with their peers (not to mention that girl/guy they have a crush on) then they're going to want to a) look good and b) not wear the same outfit every day. Like I already mentioned, when a lot of young kids see designer labels and sports brands as the baseline standard, this can be very financially demanding for the parents and segregates the kids into the haves and have-nots. It's financial hassle that the parents don't need, and yet another social stumbling-block for the children.KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life said:But the uniform doesn't need to be bought in the first place: the person in question has clothes already. Clothes that aren't limited to where one can wear them. And it wasn't a non sequitur. Uniforms were implemented in schools just like they were implemented in the military: Conformity through uniformity. It's a method of attempting to break-down individuality, but is far less effective in this age of self interest almost starting at birth. It's archaic, unnecessary, and adds an expense where there need not be one.
And I resent the implication of that second paragraph. It has nothing to do with what I typed.
That is brilliant and I'm going to steal it.Excelcior said:Take your daily dose of Fukitol
I can understand why you feel like that to some degree, but this isn't about understandable differences: this is about boys and girls being told they can and can't wear certain things because of their gender. If a guy wants to wear a skirt then he should be able to: there's no biological barrier preventing them.theriddlen said:This thread is just another example of people going too far when fighting for a theoretically good cause. And things like that are beginning to be frequent lately.
Yes, it is wrong to discriminate one of genders, claim one of them is superior, but we have to remember, that men and women are different. You can scream and shout all you want, but it won't change the fact that men and women are built bit differently, and we have to take these things in account. You can't just pretend like girls don't have breasts and men don't have penises, and even if you could, what's the point? Most people like who they are, and if some don't, well, they should try to work on themselves not try to bend everyone to their vision of society.
Also, I never got the point of school uniforms existence. In my country we don't have them and nothing bad happens because of it.
It's not the actual effect of a uniform that's a problem, it's the desired effect. Schools with uniforms either openly, or subtlety, look down on their students. They need to be kept in line, or prevented from coming to school in loin cloths. In reality, it doesn't affect students very much from a psychological standpoint, but it's part of a larger issue of education not respecting those being educated.Batou667 said:There are clothes, and then there are clothes. Sure, a kid might have plenty of casual clothes, but when they know they're going to be in an environment where they're with their peers (not to mention that girl/guy they have a crush on) then they're going to want to a) look good and b) not wear the same outfit every day. Like I already mentioned, when a lot of young kids see designer labels and sports brands as the baseline standard, this can be very financially demanding for the parents and segregates the kids into the haves and have-nots. It's financial hassle that the parents don't need, and yet another social stumbling-block for the children.KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life said:But the uniform doesn't need to be bought in the first place: The person in question has clothes already. Clothes that aren't limited to where one can wear them. And it wasn't a non sequitur. Uniforms were implemented in schools just like they were implemented in the military: Conformity through uniformity. It's a method of attempting to break-down individuality, but is far less effective in this age of self interest almost starting at birth. It's archaic, unnecessary, and adds an expense where there need not be one.
And I resent the implication of that second paragraph. It has nothing to do with what I typed.
If your opinion of school uniform is that it's a tool of dehumanisation and drains children of individuality then I'm afraid I've got to flat-out disagree. I went to schools that had compulsory uniform from the age of 5 to 16 and I never noticed these ill-effects, either on myself or my classmates. More recently, I've spent the last 5 years of my adult life working in schools and with children outside of school. The vast majority of these kids wear uniform on a day-to-day basis. They are most definitely not unthinking hivemind drones with no personalities (if they were, my job would be a damn sight easier).
To summarise, as I feel I'm repeating myself; school uniform might seem a strange, old-fashioned or even oppressive idea, but if you feel this way chances are you never wore school uniform and are just making uninformed guesses. Here in the UK at least, school uniform is seen as completely normal. It doesn't control or homogenise children in the slightest, except on the very most superficial, surface level of physical appearance - saying a child's uniform straight-jackets their actions, creativity or individuality is like saying they are similarly restricted by their skin or hair colour. School uniform also eliminates from education an aspect of the culture of consuming and acquisition which is sadly prevalent here. It's egalitarian, long-wearing and in the vast majority of cases really quite inexpensive. In the UK at least, uniform is the most correct and sensible choice of schoolwear.
No need to get bent out of shape by my tl;dr. It was meant light-heartedly, but nonetheless I do get the impression that you think school uniform is a vestigal remnant of stuffy tradition - which it isn't.
1. Sexist this, sexist that. It's too politically correct for my taste. Both genders are different and they should be treated differently. Trying to disprove this simple and obvious fact leads us closer and closer to blurred future populated by androgynous, indeterminated human-things that feel offended by "women" and "man" labels.orangeban said:1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
2) Sex-specific uniform discriminates against transgendered pupils and forces them to conform with their birth-assigned sex.
3) To deny certain clothing to some pupils because of their random event at their birth, is discriminatory.
Thats a bit overdramatic, dont you think?JesterRaiin said:1. Sexist this, sexist that. It's too politically correct for my taste. Both genders are different and they should be treated differently. Trying to disprove this simple and obvious fact leads us closer and closer to blurred future populated by androgynous, indeterminated human-things that feel offended by "women" and "man" labels.orangeban said:1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.