Poll: Do you think I stand a chance?

JesterRaiin

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Apr 14, 2009
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Phasmal said:
JesterRaiin said:
orangeban said:
1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
1. Sexist this, sexist that. It's too politically correct for my taste. Both genders are different and they should be treated differently. Trying to disprove this simple and obvious fact leads us closer and closer to blurred future populated by androgynous, indeterminated human-things that feel offended by "women" and "man" labels.
Thats a bit overdramatic, dont you think?
Yeah, women and men are different, but what exactly about my reproductive organs mandate that I must wear a skirt?

I went to an all girl school where skirts were (almost) mandatory. There were trousers but they were so ugly very few girls wanted to wear them, but at least they had the option. Wearing skirts in winter is pretty horrible.
We live in world and times of global dramatic changes. And almost all of them started with something simple, almost trivial. By accepting small changes, "lesser evils" we end someday in surroundings we don't like. It's simple as that. Overdramatic ? If you think so.

As i stated before, by wearing uniforms children are introduced into "system". There are plenty of things we can't do in life because our culture, society or any other "system" forbids us to do. Sooner we learn about this, about the way we can deal with it, about cons and pros, the better. For some it will mean accepting "good bevavior", for other - becoming rebels. "Each to his own" - either way is fine with me.

My point is : I'm not against "options". Simply, i think that understanding the way world works is most valuable experience that school can deliver, much more valuable than math, physics, biology geography or whatever schools teach nowadays. And yes, such things as uniforms are part of it.
 

Phasmal

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Jun 10, 2011
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JesterRaiin said:
Phasmal said:
JesterRaiin said:
orangeban said:
1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
1. Sexist this, sexist that. It's too politically correct for my taste. Both genders are different and they should be treated differently. Trying to disprove this simple and obvious fact leads us closer and closer to blurred future populated by androgynous, indeterminated human-things that feel offended by "women" and "man" labels.
Thats a bit overdramatic, dont you think?
Yeah, women and men are different, but what exactly about my reproductive organs mandate that I must wear a skirt?

I went to an all girl school where skirts were (almost) mandatory. There were trousers but they were so ugly very few girls wanted to wear them, but at least they had the option. Wearing skirts in winter is pretty horrible.
We live in world and times of global dramatic changes. And almost all of them started with something simple, almost trivial. By accepting small changes, "lesser evils" we end someday in surroundings we don't like. It's simple as that. Overdramatic ? If you think so.

As i stated before, by wearing uniforms children are introduced into "system". There are plenty of things we can't do in life because our culture, society or any other "system" forbids us to do. Sooner we learn about this, about the way we can deal with it, about cons and pros, the better. For some it will mean accepting "good bevavior", for other - becoming rebels. "Each to his own" - either way is fine with me.

My point is : I'm not against "options". Simply, i think that understanding the way world works is most valuable experience that school can deliver, much more valuable than math, physics, biology geography or whatever schools teach nowadays. And yes, such things as uniforms are part of it.
Women wearing pants= arrmageddon? <- That is a joke, in case I need point it out.

Kay, that would be an argument against the abolishment of uniforms altogether. But it doesnt really work with sex-specific uniforms. In life, even in our `systems` women can wear trousers. And some men even wear skirts.
 

TheRightToArmBears

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Dec 13, 2008
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Personally, I think you are a pedant, but whatever. I doubt the school or anyone else really cares, so you'll probably fail.
 

Kriptonite

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Jul 3, 2009
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You could have all 800 signatures, but without their parent's checks behind them, and a well-organized presentation as well, you're getting nowhere.
 

JesterRaiin

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Apr 14, 2009
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Phasmal said:
JesterRaiin said:
Phasmal said:
JesterRaiin said:
orangeban said:
1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
1. Sexist this, sexist that. It's too politically correct for my taste. Both genders are different and they should be treated differently. Trying to disprove this simple and obvious fact leads us closer and closer to blurred future populated by androgynous, indeterminated human-things that feel offended by "women" and "man" labels.
Thats a bit overdramatic, dont you think?
Yeah, women and men are different, but what exactly about my reproductive organs mandate that I must wear a skirt?

I went to an all girl school where skirts were (almost) mandatory. There were trousers but they were so ugly very few girls wanted to wear them, but at least they had the option. Wearing skirts in winter is pretty horrible.
We live in world and times of global dramatic changes. And almost all of them started with something simple, almost trivial. By accepting small changes, "lesser evils" we end someday in surroundings we don't like. It's simple as that. Overdramatic ? If you think so.

As i stated before, by wearing uniforms children are introduced into "system". There are plenty of things we can't do in life because our culture, society or any other "system" forbids us to do. Sooner we learn about this, about the way we can deal with it, about cons and pros, the better. For some it will mean accepting "good bevavior", for other - becoming rebels. "Each to his own" - either way is fine with me.

My point is : I'm not against "options". Simply, i think that understanding the way world works is most valuable experience that school can deliver, much more valuable than math, physics, biology geography or whatever schools teach nowadays. And yes, such things as uniforms are part of it.
Women wearing pants= arrmageddon? <- That is a joke, in case I need point it out.

Kay, that would be an argument against the abolishment of uniforms altogether. But it doesnt really work with sex-specific uniforms. In life, even in our `systems` women can wear trousers. And some men even wear skirts.
It's not about women.
It's not about girls.
It's about misguided rebellion against things that aren't completely useless.
It's about wrongly used "it's sexist" card.
 

JSDodd

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Jul 29, 2010
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I like the idea but since it's a private school they'd likely only change it if people threaten to stop paying,
 

rob_simple

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Aug 8, 2010
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I don't know what kind of power private schools have compared to regular ones, but I'm going to give you some advice: do whatever the fuck you want; they can't stop you.

If you forget about the signatures and just get the majority of your year or even class to start coming in whatever uniform they want then what are the school going to do? Get that pepper-spraying swat guy?

If they suspend you for it, come into school anyway. They aren't allowed to touch you so they can't forcibly remove you from the premises and I think most if not all level-headed parents would get behind your cause.

As I say, private schools might be different in terms of they might be more frivolous with expulsions but seeing as I understand they rely on money from the parents of students then I doubt they are going to take that route.

I wish you luck.
 

AngryMongoose

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Jan 18, 2010
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I don't think anything will come of it, but you should submit the petition anyway, 'cos goddammit it should!
 

CRRPGMykael

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Mar 6, 2011
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Seriously? You have girls wearing skirts and you're like "THAT'S WRONG! LET'S GIVE 'EM BAGGY PANTS!". You could also just have a petition against uniforms in general, if nothing else.
 

Random berk

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Sep 1, 2010
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orangeban said:
So Escapist, lately at my school, I've been organizing a petition. The aim of the petition is to get a gender-neutral uniform put in place. Currently, girls have to wear skirts and boys trousers (along with various other differences), but I hope to change that. Ideally I want a system where you can pick and choose between either uniform, but I'd also settle for a single gender-neutral uniform. I plan to send this petition to the powers-that-be in my school, along with a letter detailing my arguments, these arguments being:

1) Sex-specific uniform is sexist, because it encourages treating the sexes differently, and it splits the school into two factions and discourages socialisation between the two.
2) Sex-specific uniform discriminates against transgendered pupils and forces them to conform with their birth-assigned sex.
3) To deny certain clothing to some pupils because of their random event at their birth, is discriminatory.

If you want to know more details, I go to a private Scottish school, my petition has about 100 signatures in a school with around 800 kids, and this kinda thing is unprecedented.

What do you think?

Edit: Thought of a way to make my points better.

1) Not only does it divide pupils, but it encourages people to look at and treat the two sexes differently.
2) By having a gender-neutral uniform, this firstly de-emphasises genders importance so a transgendered/gender-confused pupil would feel less self-conciouss about it all, and it would make it easier for them to experiment.

Double Edit: Please note that what I really want is a system where you can pick certain items of clothing from either of the current uniforms. I do not want a single gender-neutral uniform, but I'd prefer that to the current system.
Its probably already been said, but what the hell. Get them to change it so that everyone wears a kilt.

As to your chances, I don't know. It depends how backward and stubborn the principal is. My old school has two seperate uniforms, the main (only major) difference was the skirt and trousers. Most girls just wore the trousers, it wasn't mandatory to stick to gender assigned uniforms, although I'm certain it wouldn't have worked so well if one of the lads got it into his head to wear the skirt.
 

Jinjiro

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Apr 20, 2008
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This thread just screams 'First World Problems' at me, and it somewhat disgusts me. Be grateful you're allowed to be educated, and have clothes on your back, for fuck's sake.
 

rob_simple

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Aug 8, 2010
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ravensheart18 said:
rob_simple said:
I don't know what kind of power private schools have compared to regular ones, but I'm going to give you some advice: do whatever the fuck you want; they can't stop you.

If you forget about the signatures and just get the majority of your year or even class to start coming in whatever uniform they want then what are the school going to do? Get that pepper-spraying swat guy?

If they suspend you for it, come into school anyway. They aren't allowed to touch you so they can't forcibly remove you from the premises and I think most if not all level-headed parents would get behind your cause.

As I say, private schools might be different in terms of they might be more frivolous with expulsions but seeing as I understand they rely on money from the parents of students then I doubt they are going to take that route.

I wish you luck.
If you repeatedly ignore school rules they can expel you, and then ban you from the property by legal tresspass notice. That won't help you much. In the case of a private school where your parents paid big bucks I doubt they will support you either.
But if every single student does it then they'd have to expel them all, essentially shutting down the school. And I think the newspapers would love a 'banned from school for wearing MY uniform' headline. I see your point, though, I've met the parents of private school kids and this shit would not fly.
 

everythingbeeps

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Sep 30, 2011
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All you'd succeed in doing is forcing girls to wear boys' uniforms.

Which would be sexist, which would defeat the entire purpose of your petition.

I think your efforts are misguided and unnecessary.
 

Necroid_Neko

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Nov 24, 2011
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1) What's wrong with treating people differently? We're all individual everyone's going to be treated differently even if we all looked exactly the same except for our faces, why not allow school kids the freedom to dress their own way? Kids aren't idiots, they know how they dress will change how others interact with them, give them the right to choose.
2) Kids who believe they are/ are actually haermaphroditic will 99.99% of the time identify with one gender or the other, if you're saying that trying to define their gender is discriminatory against them it ISN'T, they want to be their gender and you should allow them to be rather than forcing them to be 'gender nuetral'. On the other hand, if you're saying that transgender/haermaphroditic children should be allowed to wear whichever sex's uniform they choose then I support you there.
3) Surely the answer is to give us MORE choice, not take it away! Let the pupils wear what they want with maybe just a polo/t-shirt that they all have to wear, allowing them to choose whether they want to wear a skirt, trousers, kilt, shorts or whatever.

You obviously have no knowledge of how kids feel in school, even with semi-strict uniform rules they feel as though their identity is being taken away, and you want to dress them all as exact replicas of each other, so they lose their visual voice in the crowd and become literally nothing more individual than 'a school kid'? Sure, make their lives more grey and depressing than ever before. Talk about discrimination, YOU are discriminating against kids/teenagers/young adults by taking away the choice we adults have to dress however we want! And removing the idea of gender is ridiculous! Girls and boys should be treated equally yes, but allow them their differences, they're not the same and WANT to be different to each other sex!
I apologise for my outburst, but this idea makes me sick. Taking kids choice even further away from them. Sickening.
 

Batou667

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Oct 5, 2011
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KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life said:
It's not the actual effect of a uniform that's a problem, it's the desired effect. Schools with uniforms either openly, or subtlety, look down on their students. They need to be kept in line, or prevented from coming to school in loin cloths. In reality, it doesn't affect students very much from a psychological standpoint, but it's part of a larger issue of education not respecting those being educated.
Look, with the utmost respect and patience for your viewpoint, your opinions just don't square up with my 5+ years of working with kids and in schools. In none of the schools I've been to or worked in was there even the slightest hint, even implicitly, that the pupils were being forced to wear uniforms as some kind of badge of ownership. Quite the opposite, many children enjoy the shared identity and being able to differentiate themselves from other schools. In the interests of civility and compromise I'll suggest that perhaps where you live in Canada the situation is markedly different to where I live in the UK, and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

And the whole brand-name peer-pressure thing can be solved by simple parenting.
"Simple parenting"? There's an oxymoron if ever I heard one. I think it'd take more of a total grassroots paradigm shift to divorce the British public from their love of brands-and-bling.

Satsuki666 said:
It may be different where you live but where I live it would be a hell of a lot cheaper to buy your kids the designer label clothes then a school uniform. Even with school uniforms you still have the kids segregated into haves and have-nots. You have the people whos parents can affort to spend $150 on a skirt and those who cant and have to get them second hand.
$150!? A schoolgirl's basic skirt here in the UK is closer to $15.

Here's a link, for those who still think school uniform needs to be expensive.
http://www.marksandspencer.com/School-Uniform-Kids/b/43629030?ie=UTF8&pf_rd_r=0MZ5WYYVZRTR16951RVM&pf_rd_m=A2BO0OYVBKIQJM&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=53882031&pf_rd_p=475115433&pf_rd_s=left-nav-2
This is from Marks and Spencer - one of the more upmarket (i.e., expensive) chains of department stores. Even the clothes in the senior boys/girls sections seem completely reasonably priced to me.

I can imagine some private schools might insist on their own tailored articles, which would be more expensive, but if your parents are rich enough to send you to a private school then the uniform costs are the least of your worries.