Poll: Doctor Who Could Be Better

[Qtastic]

So I saw this [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23570354]the other day...and sighed. Another white, male Doctor to the rescue.

After 12 incarnations of the Doctor, including 4 newer ones, we have yet to have ANYTHING except a white male. Now this doesn't necessarily ruin Doctor Who for me, but I do raise an eyebrow at the fact that the Doctor's regeneration is supposed to change him into a "random" new body, yet it's always a white male. Now one could say it's science FANTASY, and ask why he's also always British and so on, and that's fair enough, but I just think it would be interesting to see the Doctor as black, or a woman, or what-have-you.

Thoughts?

 

[kurupt87]

I think you have channelled the spirit of OTT PC admirably.

 

[JoJo]

I don't give a toss about the Doctor's race but I do think since it's such an important role within the show they should choose purely by ability to act rather than deliberately aiming for an [insert ethnic minority] Doctor. Realistically, the population of the UK is over 90% white so yeah, the chances are most or all Doctors are going to be white even if they are choosing race-blind.

Sex is a different kettle of fish however, since that does affect character and I personally would prefer the Doctor stays male since I feel it's an important part of his character, even if it has been canonically confirmed that Time Lords can change sex.

 

[Albino Boo]

I'm not against the Dr being a non white male per say, but I don't want the casting to be about being diverse. Its got to be the right actor for the job.

 

[Silvanus]

I'd agree that the role should be more diverse. For one thing, the lack of diversity really undermines the idea that the character supposedly regenerates into random new (human) forms.

That said, I'm very pleased with Capaldi, simply because I'm in favour of older actors getting the role again (after the last two). He suits an older actor. They've been choosing younger actors for... the wrong reasons, IMO.

Realistically, the population of the UK is over 90% white so yeah, the chances are most or all Doctors are going to be white even if they are choosing race-blind.

Just under 90%, apparently, but you're close.

Shouldn't that mean that if they were being proportionate, which you seem to be suggesting, one should be non-white?

 

[Qtastic]

I think you have channelled the spirit of OTT PC admirably.

Assuming this has something to do with being politically correct, I am not outraged or anything...just surprised. I mean, the show does a lot of out there stuff, and seems to be all about equality even amongst different species, let alone sex and race. I don't think they are morally obligated or any such nonsense, I just thought it would mix things up.

they should choose purely by ability to act rather than deliberately aiming for an [insert ethnic minority] Doctor.

100% agree, but you can't tell me that there are NO black or female actors/actresses that could kick this role's ass. Helen Mirren anyone? I think you can aim for something that breaks the mold without choosing a minority for its own sake. Hell, their only requirement could be "not a white male." That leaves PLENTY.

Realistically, the population of the UK is over 90% white so yeah, the chances are most or all Doctors are going to be white even if they are choosing race-blind.

Fair enough, but 1/12 is 8%. So if just ONE doctor was not white, then 92% were.

Sex is a different kettle of fish however, since that does affect character and I personally would prefer the Doctor stays male since I feel it's an important part of his character, even if it has been canonically confirmed that Time Lords can change sex.

What aspects of the Doctor's character demands he stays a man, if I might ask? Granted, this might just be a personal sentiment on your part, but if you have reasons, I would be interested in hearing them.

 

[Qtastic]

Just under 90%, apparently, but you're close.

91.2% if we go by the 2013 UK demographics. [http://www.indexmundi.com/united_kingdom/demographics_profile.html]

 

[JoJo]

Just under 90%, apparently, but you're close.

Shouldn't that mean that if they were being proportionate, which you seem to be suggesting, one should be non-white?

Fair enough, but 1/12 is 8%. So if just ONE doctor was not white, then 92% were.

Only if you consider the proportion non-whites living in the UK now. Don't forget the show started back in the Sixties, when the UK was considerably less ethically diverse (and lets be honest, quite a bit more racist). But anyway, if it were down purely to chance using the UK demographics then just 12 Doctors is such a small sample size that it wouldn't be surprising that no non-white Doctors have turned up, that's just the way probability works. Yes it's more likely than not one would be but there's no more 'should' than if you roll a die six times, each number 'should' come up once. In reality, it's usually more messy than that.

 

[Qtastic]

Just under 90%, apparently, but you're close.

Shouldn't that mean that if they were being proportionate, which you seem to be suggesting, one should be non-white?

Fair enough, but 1/12 is 8%. So if just ONE doctor was not white, then 92% were.

Only if you consider the proportion non-whites living in the UK now. Don't forget the show started back in the Sixties, when the UK was considerably less ethically diverse (and lets be honest, quite a bit more racist). But anyway, if it were down purely to chance using the UK demographics then just 12 Doctors is such a small sample size that it wouldn't be surprising that no non-white Doctors have turned up, that's just the way probability works. Yes it's more likely than not one would be but there's no more 'should' than if you roll a die six times, each number 'should' come up once. In reality, it's usually more messy than that.

Law of large numbers [http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawoflargenumbers.asp] etc etc. I agree, but I think this is a bit of a red herring. I am not trying to argue that by decree of demographics we should see a non-white Doctor. You are making an in-canon, non-meta appeal as to why the Doctor is always white (i.e. statistics in the world of Doctor Who). While that's fair, I am saying that as artists and creators of the world, it is well within their purview to change the Doctor's race or sex (even gender or orientation).

This would not only serve to present a different perspective, but also allow the writers to make social commentary if they feel so inclined.

 

[JoJo]

Just under 90%, apparently, but you're close.

Shouldn't that mean that if they were being proportionate, which you seem to be suggesting, one should be non-white?

Fair enough, but 1/12 is 8%. So if just ONE doctor was not white, then 92% were.

Only if you consider the proportion non-whites living in the UK now. Don't forget the show started back in the Sixties, when the UK was considerably less ethically diverse (and lets be honest, quite a bit more racist). But anyway, if it were down purely to chance using the UK demographics then just 12 Doctors is such a small sample size that it wouldn't be surprising that no non-white Doctors have turned up, that's just the way probability works. Yes it's more likely than not one would be but there's no more 'should' than if you roll a die six times, each number 'should' come up once. In reality, it's usually more messy than that.

Law of large numbers [http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawoflargenumbers.asp] etc etc. I agree, but I think this is a bit of a red herring. I am not trying to argue that by decree of demographics we should see a non-white Doctor. You are making an in-canon, non-meta appeal as to why the Doctor is always white (i.e. statistics in the world of Doctor Who). While that's fair, I am saying that as artists and creators of the world, it is well within their purview to change the Doctor's race or sex (even gender or orientation).

This would not only serve to present a different perspective, but also allow the writers to make social commentary if they feel so inclined.

Well, actually I'm making a more non-canon appeal since I'm talking about the statistics of the real life UK, not the in-canon world. If you exclude all real life context, yes it's rather odd than an alien from a distant planet always happens to look and sound like a British man, but of course that's because in real life it's made in the UK.

I will give you that it's been canonically confirmed that Time Lords can change sex or race, nevertheless that doesn't mean they should do it with the Doctor. If they want to present a different perspective, or make social commentary, that's what the Doctor's assistants are there for right?

 

[Qtastic]

Well, actually I'm making a more non-canon appeal since I'm talking about the statistics of the real life UK, not the in-canon world.

Doctor Who is supposed to take place in the real world. If it didn't, your statistics would be meaningless. I was trying to say that making a sample size related arguments makes an appeal to viewing the canon world as organic enough to be subject to such things, rather than simply stating on a meta-level that it's time for change. But again, this doesn't really matter; at the end of the day, it's about how people would FEEL about a non-white or non-male Doctor, or perhaps whether it would be appropriate or even preferred.

If you exclude all real life context, yes it's rather odd than an alien from a distant planet always happens to look and sound like a British man, but of course that's because in real life it's made in the UK.

I dismissed this in the OP since it is fantasy. But yes, that is strange, certainly.

I will give you that it's been canonically confirmed that Time Lords can change sex or race, nevertheless that doesn't mean they should do it with the Doctor.

I don't necessarily think that it is an unavoidable inference. I do think that bringing a woman or a non-white (that sounds racist somehow) but having it otherwise be the Doctor in every other way would just speak volumes about equality.

If they want to present a different perspective, or make social commentary, that's what the Doctor's assistants are there for right?

Fair enough.

not to mention the spin off torchwood where the cast were very orientation diverse so they arent avoiding the issue.

Well, not to open a can of worms, but Torchwood was done by Russell T. Davies iirc, and he was big into gay rights and such. He stopped writing for Doctor Who, and Moffat took over. Plus, I have already conceded that Doctor Who is good about espousing equality, hence my shock at the nondiverse Doctor.

 

[fenrizz]

I prefer The Doctor to be a white male.

Being a white male, it just easier to relate.
I mean, who would want a white Shaft?

 

[jetriot]

I prefer The Doctor to be a white male.

Being a white male, it just easier to relate.
I mean, who would want a white Shaft?

What? He is an alien time traveler? How the hell do you relate. The truth is you are supposed to be relating to the companions which are typically female.. the companions represent the audience not the Doctor. Also someone doesn't need to be white or even a male to relate to them. I am completely anti-super-pc-attitude that everyone seems to be getting lately, but your comment just really struck me as utter non-sense.

 

[fenrizz]

I prefer The Doctor to be a white male.

Being a white male, it just easier to relate.
I mean, who would want a white Shaft?

What? He is an alien time traveler? How the hell do you relate. The truth is you are supposed to be relating to the companions which are typically female.. the companions represent the audience not the Doctor. Also someone doesn't need to be white or even a male to relate to them. I am completely anti-super-pc-attitude that everyone seems to be getting lately, but your comment just really struck me as utter non-sense.

Sure, a protagonist do not need to be white or male for me to relate to them, but it still feels "right" that the Doctor is a white male.

Don't care if I'm supposed to relate the his companions, I relate to the Doctor as well.

But then again, if the next Doctor was to be black, Hispanic, female or some variation I might change my mind.
But for now the idea of a non white, non male Doctor seems strange and I suspect it would be somewhat jarring.

 

[CommanderL]

the thing is it would be change for changes sake the doctor has always been a white male and should stay that way

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I'd rather have the most qualified actor for the job. If that means another white male Doctor then so be it.

 

[The_Echo]

I saw someone say once that a Time Lord's given incarnation are some kind of a "phase," and that Time Lord regenerations are variations on a constant. They stressed a difference between 'incarnation' and 'regeneration,' saying that at the end of, say, the Doctor's current incarnation, the next could be a giant snake or something.

I mean, could be totally bullshit, but it sounds alright to me.

But beyond that, I'm sure they cast their Doctors based on who best fit the role. Making the Doctor more ethnically diverse or a woman for the sake of diversity could wind up robbing the show of an actor who might be more well-suited for the role.

 

[Azahul]

So I saw this [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23570354]the other day...and sighed. Another white, male Doctor to the rescue.

After 12 incarnations of the Doctor, including 4 newer ones, we have yet to have ANYTHING except a white male. Now this doesn't necessarily ruin Doctor Who for me, but I do raise an eyebrow at the fact that the Doctor's regeneration is supposed to change him into a "random" new body, yet it's always a white male. Now one could say it's science FANTASY, and ask why he's also always British and so on, and that's fair enough, but I just think it would be interesting to see the Doctor as black, or a woman, or what-have-you.

Thoughts?

Personally, I was rather hoping for Judi Dench, but frankly I'm happy that they're landing a good actress for the role. I love Doctor Who, and I really enjoy watching shows break the usual conventions of having white male protagonists (worst decision made in regards to Pacific Rim was easily to frame the story around a white male character with no personality, instead of having Idris Elba's character and Mako as the central two), and I'm always interested to see what new people bring to the role. What I want more than anything else, however, is for the people in charge to cast the actor best able to do the job.

I do think you shouldn't get too worked up over the main character not straying outside of the white male paradigm though. By fixating on the character of the Doctor so much, you're ignoring a lot of the rather impressive firsts the show has achieved since it first launched. The show launched with the BBC's only female producer and an Indian director, after all, which in 1963 was breaking a lot of new ground.

 

[DementedSheep]

the thing is it would be change for changes sake the doctor has always been a white male and should stay that way

He changes personality every time and regularly swaps out his companions but a different skin color or a vagina rather than a penis even though it not agonist lore? Madness, now your just changing shit for the sake of it.