Poll: Does pirating a game to test it make it okay?

[Starke]

So I ask you this escapists, is pirating okay if you're planning to test a game and then later on, buy it? Is pirating ever okay, under any condition?

No. I watched Iron Lore get ripped to shreds because the crack that came out before release for Titan Quest was shoddy as hell, and caused random crashes. And, that was the reputation the game got, a buggy, crashy, mess. Not the retail product mind you, the pirated version. Titan Quest's retail failure led to the developer being scrapped after their third release. So, no, it isn't.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Eh... I would have said no before, but I recently blew 30 quid on Dishonoured which for some reason won't run on my PC, and can't return it 'cos I used to code. Starting to feel differently now.

If anyone knows what the hell I do about Error Code 51 on steam it would be much appreciated.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

From the developer's perspective, surely they would say yes? If you are pirating it to test it out then you are obviously considering buying it, so they have nothing to lose. Either you like it and you decide to buy it, or you don't like it and you just delete it and forget about it.

Someone who it smart enough to want to try before they buy, isn't going to buy before they try.

 

[EtherealBeaver]

Really? How isn't it?

The same way trying out your car to see it actually works isnt, how trying on clothes before you buy to make sure it doesnt look like crap and actually fits your "hardware" isnt and like when you buy shoes you will also try them on to make sure you are able to walk in them its also not.

It can not possibly be the consumers responsibility to make market research to make sure a given configuration of hardware will be able to support the game in a satisfactory manner. That is something all other lines of products have employees to help you discover - be it the shop clerk, the package itself, hotlines or something else. Even food has a list of ingridients in case you dont like/is allergic to a certain kind of product - why should games be exempt from this kind of treatment (other than a blind bias against copying stuff regardless of its intentions)?


Edit: Case in point:

Eh... I would have said no before, but I recently blew 30 quid on Dishonoured which for some reason won't run on my PC, and can't return it 'cos I used to code. Starting to feel differently now.

If anyone knows what the hell I do about Error Code 51 on steam it would be much appreciated.

If he had "tried it on" before buying it, he wouldnt be in this situation.

 

[wabbbit]

There are way too many people taking sides on this when it's obvious that its both correct and incorrect.

In an age of digital distribution where you can't return games I see nothing wrong with pirating it to see if it will run (as most games don't have demo's) as canYouRunIt.com is often wrong. Of course, if you didn't plan on purchasing it at all then yeah, I suppose it's wrong...

Also..

That would be like sneaking into a movie and only paying if you liked it. How is it morally grey? Then only way it comes close to morally grey is if you pirate it to test then buy it next time it discounted even if you couldn't run the game.

you can't be serious...

It is nothing like sneaking into a movie, at all.
Maybe if you have new, fancy replacement cybernetic eyes and you are not sure if your new eyes are compatible with the 3D glasses at you local cinema and you kindly ask the manager to check it out for a minute and if it works then you buy a ticket.

Even so, paying for a game (even if it is discounted) you know for a fact you cannot play is rather ridiculous.

How isn't it? Technically you aren't "stealing" anything. Nobody is "losing" anything. If I paid $10 to see a movie and it turns out to be shit, then I'd be pretty pissed. Just like if I go buy a game that I can't run on my PC (which has happened before). Pirating is still pirating, no matter what bullshit excuse you use for why you are doing it.

Oh please...
It's not piracy if it's only done to check if the goddamn game will run on a system.
He's not going to test play it, not going to use it as a demo, but only check to see if it will run at all on the PC in question.

Look at the example above (the one you quoted) again

Really? How isn't it? If I shoot you just to see if you will survive, is it still attempted murder? I had no intent to murder you, but I still shot you. So, if I go to Best Buy and steal a graphics card just to test to see if it will work in my computer, then if it will, I go buy it, that isn't stealing?

You just don't get it, I don't know if you are a pirate and/or just in extreme ignorant denial. Piracy:

the unauthorized reproduction or use of a copyrighted book, recording, television program, patented invention, trademarked product, etc.

Piracy is the act of the above, it has nothing to do with whatever reason you make up to justify it. You have to pirate the game in the first place to try it. Again, would it be ok with you if I shoot you just to see if you survive, or if one of my guns could shoot that far and still do damage, or whatever reason I make up to say that me shooting you is perfectly ok and legal?

Did you honestly compare piracy to murder... Oh dear, that's all I'm going to say.

 

[Your Fearless Captain]

I think that if you pirate a game to see if you like it your just scooting by on the legit train but I think it's fine to pirate if your see if it will run on your junky laptop. It is not however fine to pirate a game to see how well it runs on your gaming rig.

 

[Kaavel1993]

Ive had this issue quite recently. I bought TorchLight 2 on steam and i couldnt get it to run on my laptop. I wasnt very optimistic mind you as it?s a pretty naff pc anyway. But hell. I liked Torchlight and really wanted to play the second. So installed it loaded it and... Torchlight 2 has stopped working.... Every time I try to play it. So I can understand where people are coming from with this. Pirating is wrong. Illegally obtaining Movies and things like that. Which sucks I must say. Im a massive walking Dead fan but because I dont have Sky or what have you I cant watch it until the DVD comes out sometime next year. I can see where the temptation is. But when it comes to a situation like this where you risk wasting money on a game that can only be purchased online with no refunds... Id say try it. If it works. Sweet BUY THE GAME. If not then its a shame but you don't lose money. When you on a limited income sometimes it?s the only option to ensure you can contribute to a developer you really like.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I swear if I had a dollar for every time that someone can't understand what an example is, or complete miss the entire point of it, I'd be rich. Anyway, that doesn't help. For this issue at hand, just find a game that has the same requirements that you don't have to pirate (so, like a dummy) and see if it runs.

I got your message. I just wanted to point out why someone would even bother shooting a man when they can get better results with a better alternative. You would have been better off bringing it down to a similar crime with controlled variables.

A better example would be going to the store and trying Monster. There aren't any taste testers around, so you decide to take a can off the shelf and crack it open. Regardless of how it tastes, as long as you pay for it you've done no harm. If you're not paying for it, you just committed petty theft. But if an employee catches you in the act, you're paying no matter what. Naturally there's a degree of risk involved since you are still drinking store property, even if you intended to buy it.

What are the other alternatives? Buy it first or don't even bother.

It's the same basic principle. If you doubt your system can run a game, don't even bother.

Why do we even need an example or an analogy at all? Are we somehow incapable of judging a situation by it's own merits? Whenever I read an analogy like that, I just write it off as a lame attempt at tricking me into agreeing. It's lazy reasoning, it's making a case without actually having to make any kind of case at all.

How convenient!

 

[Mordwyl]

The majority of AAA publishers don't want my money anyway, considering how they try so hard to not let me play their games.

 

[Baldr]

There are plenty of legitimate ways to try a game before buying. Demos, rentals(Redbox, BB, Gamefly), and online streaming(OnLive).

The requirements are listed on the box. If you don't know, then don't buy it. I rather our company loose a sale than let someone pirate our game.

 

[xdiesp]

Of course it's not okay. Because bad games are specifically developed to hide themselves behind a wall of hype, smoke and mirrors so you end up buying them and get scammed.

 

[EtherealBeaver]

There are plenty of legitimate ways to try a game before buying.

Lets take a look shall we?

Demos

Far from all games have demos and the ones who have are often very misleading

rentals(Redbox, BB, Gamefly)

If they happen to have that specific game you wanted sure. Around here, those stores rarely have more than the 100 newest games since the rest are sold off. And that only accounts for the AAA Boxed games - if the game doesnt have to be in a boxed edition or more than a few months old, that option is out.

online streaming(OnLive).

Which doesnt answer the question: Does it run on my hardware configuration?

The requirements are listed on the box. If you don't know, then don't buy it.

And what if my hardware configuration doesnt support it? Not specs just configeration - it happens a lot and good devs will try and root them out before launch but that is far from the standard unfortunately. For eksample, during the very early alpha builds of dota2 we had a ton of testing to do regarding which computers could and couldnt run it regardless of "high end" or "low end" pc´s. Some games have wierd bugs which doesnt work with specific components regardless of whether they should technically do so or not. Taking my previous example into considerration (and if you cant scroll up and read it you are at least as bad as the people you criticize for not having the time to go to 10 different stores to find the game they want to rent)

I rather our company loose a sale than let someone pirate our game.

If you work at said company I would probably prefer not supporting them either.

Why should the industry not be held accountable for outright misleading demos? Why should the consumer be to blame if the producer of a game did not test it well enough on enough different hardware configurations? Why should the consumer be taking the risks in all of this? 60$ is a lot of money to many people and even if it was not, that should not be a blank permission slip to the game developers.

As I said before (but which has been conviniently ignored): You would not buy any other product for 60$+ without trying it first so why should games be exempt? Shirts, shoes, cars, houses, scarfs, CDs, glasses, speakers, phones, you name it and you have the option to try before you buy.

There is absolutely no reason why games should be different and the only reason it isn´t is because some shoddy game publishers want to be able to ship their faulty and badly testet crap and to make sure the customers are the ones paying the bill, they hype up piracy as an intrinsically bad thing.

Switzerland actually made a study (as the only country in the world) before they discussed the piracy laws - and as opposed to the studies paid off by the publishers, this one actually showed that piracy is a good thing for the business. (Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/12/05/swiss-government-study-finds-internet-downloads-increase-sales/ )

So why again should people not be allowed to see if the thing actually works before they install it?

 

[RaNDM G]

Why do we even need an example or an analogy at all? Are we somehow incapable of judging a situation by it's own merits? Whenever I read an analogy like that, I just write it off as a lame attempt at tricking me into agreeing. It's lazy reasoning, it's making a case without actually having to make any kind of case at all.

I wasn't really making an argument to begin with. Just wanted to elaborate on someone else's dumb analogy.

If I wanted to write an argument with detailed evidence, references to the law, and issues on how subjective the morality of this issue is, I would have to write an essay for it. Fortunately for you and I, I lack the time and patience for such a thing. So I'll just sum up my thoughts with a brief statement.

Can you justify illegal downloading? Yes, but that doesn't excuse it from being petty theft. The "try before you buy" argument is not sound reasoning for a sealed product or software downloading. In the case of software, oftentimes whatever build you download is not representative of the final product. If you want to try something, look for trials or demos instead. I don't think Payday has anything like that though, except on the PS3, so OP is out of luck there.

For the OP, if you think your friend's laptop can't handle a game, it most likely won't. Check your configuration and the game's minimum specs first.

This discussion most likely will not change people's opinions. That's not what I like to do. I think it's more important to just make a point and leave it at that, unless you enjoy messing with people.

 

[MadHatter1993]

last time i pirated a game, it was bastion, now i bought 5 different copies and over 10 different merchandise. i love that game. so in that regard, because i pirated Bastion, it has compelled me to buy 5 more copies ( one Indie bundle) and lots of cool do dads. so i think they got their money and more.

 

[predatorpulse7]

I wanna say it's wrong but pirating a game for testing purposes does it have its merits. Most companies don't bring out demos and testing websites(such as systemrequirementslab, to see if the game will run) are hit and miss. And I certainly won't trust the mostly sold out gaming press who praises almost every AAA game out there. And gameplay videos don't tell me the whole story.

I took Sleeping Dogs(PC) off a torrent site, played for about 2 days(still early in the story), loved the heck out of it and promptly bought a cheap cdkey online for it. Do I feel guilty for pirating it? Nope. In some cases(actually most cases if we are talking about triple A games) they expect us to give 60 bucks for a game that we don't even get to test drive a bit. I'm sorry but I'm not giving 60 bucks to just any game out there.

I think most publishers/developers who point fingers at pirates would be surprised to learn how many people pirate the game just to see if it worth their money. If the game doesn't grab you by the balls in the first hours that you play it, then it's a no purchase. I started gaming back when demos were out for most games and I really miss those demos. They didn't give out the whole story of the game but you could get a feel for at least some of the gameplay and how it would run on your machine. They wet the appetite so to speak.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Seems like just another excuse to steal a game. You can look at the recommended stats or a quick google search to see if the game can be played on the computer.

 

[predatorpulse7]

Protip: Turn the box over, the system requirements are written on the back.

There is no excuse, and nothing makes piracy okay. If you're going to do it, then do it. But don't try and pretend you're in the right while you're doing it. You can't buy your cake and steal it too.

System requirements don't tell you s**t about how it will run on your particular machine, it just gives you the big picture.I don't know, for example, how many FPS will by game reach - it's one thing to play a game at 12 FPS and quite another at 30-35. On my old machine, Witcher 2 ran at 13 FPS(unplayable) on low settings but according to the back of the box and producers, the game would run so no problems, right? WRONG. Though I shouldn't pick on TW2 cause at least they had a demo. But what if it was the same situation with another game, which didn't have a demo out? I would've been in the clear with the requirements according to the guys making the game, I would've bought the game and realized that, while I can start it up, the low FPS made it nearly unplayable.

I kinda want to be 100% sure of what I am buying if the game is around 50-60 bucks. That used to be the case with demos but nowadays publishers are scared to release demos(but what it they won't like it!!!) so I have no way of judging how the game will run on my machine before I go out and buy the full version.

The guys releasing the games don't want to take ANY risks but they want us to go on blind faith when buying their 60 dollar games, trusting gameplay videos(and I heard that some want to ban those as well), game reviewers that they've payed off and other parties involved.

It's like someone telling you to buy a car, giving you the specs, praising it to high heavens and getting others to do so as well but staunchly refusing you a test drive before you give your hard earned cash for it.

I pirated a game that I had doubts would work on my machine, played it for a couple of hours over the course of 2 days and bought a Steam key online for it. I pirated the game(I made a demo for myself so to speak) and then gave money to the developer. What does that make me? A honest pirate?

 

[DanDanikov]

Piracy generally increases the potential for more sales, both for the games in question and gaming in general as a market.

Pirating a game because there is no demo is a service problem. It's down to individuals to only do so for genuine testing reasons and purchase a game if/when the test is successful. In my head, if you really enjoy games and can afford to pay, you're shooting yourself in the foot not to.

From what I can tell of the actual piracy community, they are big fans of games and are NOT interested in subverting the financial models of developers. They may have no love for marketing departments and publishers who have the power to negatively effect games, especially when it comes to copy protection, but they do like the developers and believe in them being compensated for their work so they continue to make more games.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

I'd have to come up with a precedent for other media. Like a library (taxpayer funded) or rental store. Wait, there used to be video game rental stores. Do those still exist?

It's kind of a weak excuse, but an oft heard one at that. I'd argue that a chunk of games market themselves strictly for the purchase, well aware that upon actually getting into the game you'll realize it's dross. Movie video games are (or were) a great example of this.

ET sold exceptionally well for Atari, yet is cited as one of the worst games ever. If people pirated that to test it it would have never sold so well. 'But that's a good thing, that means quality games rise to the top!' I hear you say. That's debatable. Battlefield and Modern Warfare continue to sell in huge quantities while games like Bulletstorm fall by the wayside.

 

[predatorpulse7]

Protip: Turn the box over, the system requirements are written on the back.

There is no excuse, and nothing makes piracy okay. If you're going to do it, then do it. But don't try and pretend you're in the right while you're doing it. You can't buy your cake and steal it too.

Excuses

If you're going to pirate the game, then pirate the game. But don't delude yourself into thinking you're on some idiotic moral highground and expect others to fall for your bullshit. What you are doing is illegal, right and wrong are irrelevant and meaningless.

One of the most hilarious things I've read on the internet.

And you seem to forget that I PAYED for the game. The guys making the game didn't lose a sale but I did have to demo it myself first. I'm not gonna waste lots of money on something I don't test, if only for a little bit. Obviously a lot of people in my position wouldn't have bought the game afterwards(even if they liked it) but that's another matter alltogether.

As others have told you, if I were portuguese or swiss, it would have been quite alright.

Piracy is not a clear cut issue and it has never been so. That is why I have to laugh when some people use it in analogies with stealing or murder, which are punisehd all around(in civilized countries at least). The very fact that some countries decriminalized or are trying to decriminalize file sharing(which is pretty much piracy) objectively shows that the issue isn't black and white.