Poll: Does pirating a game to test it make it okay?

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Straw Man arguments are fun, right?

Errrr...what?

Your response reminds me of the old "you wouldn't steal a car" anti-piracy ads; it's such an over exaggeration to compare a minor offense to a petty crime.

I agree. You'll even note I said that. And piracy isn't a crime, at least not in the UK. It's an offence. It's civil, not criminal. That's because it's not theft as many claim, but copyright infringement.

Also, a lot of people must have a disposable income if they can afford to waste money on a game which might not work. I probably buy 6 games a year, because I can't justify wasting more than a couple of hundred pounds on video games; but you can so that's cool.

Not everyone is awesome like me, this is very true.

But I must also be the only person who has heard of the word "demo", or "borrow from a friend" or realises that different people can log in to Steam on the same computer.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

If there is no demo, sure. Not every review actually describes how a game plays. Some reviews are horrible, and some games are harder to read/write a review of.

I also think pirating is ok in the cases where the company that made the game is out of business and therefore not receiving any money for the game, or the game is no longer in print and there is no digital distribution of it in any way shape or form.

 

[fenrizz]

But I must also be the only person who has heard of the word "demo", or "borrow from a friend" or realises that different people can log in to Steam on the same computer.

But what difference does it make if you log onto a friends Steam account to test it or if you download it instead?

I mean, it's pretty much the same thing, is it not?

 

[Something Amyss]

Such a grey area.

Most PC games don't have demos. And of course you can't buy a game, see if it works or not, and return it if it doesn't.

There is, of course, the completely legal option of doing without. Oddly enough, if people did without, there would simultaneously be fewer instances of piracy and a higher chance that demos will be released.

No it is not (although I've found my stance on piracy to be one of the harshest on this site...basically, it's never OK unless you literally can't get the item in question due to it's age).

There are sites that you can go to that will tell you these things.

http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri (like this one! I'm sure there are others but this is the one I personally use)

While I do use CYRI as a guide, there are quite a few games my PC should be able to run (and smokes the settings on, BTW, not just "barely passes") that it won't. That's not an absolute way to work things.

 

[joshthor]

In your situation I think its fine (saying this as someone who never pirates games anymore and hasnt in 4 years) however, I also think its a very fine line. if it turns into she tests it and doesnt like it, or doesnt think its worth the 20 dollars, it simply turns into piracy. I dont like the idea of pirating a game to test it because if i did that, i would have probably 75% less games. not cause they are bad games, but because i would lose my interest goggles and be like... "eh, this game is ok, but not something i need"

 

[Something Amyss]

But I must also be the only person who has heard of the word "demo", or "borrow from a friend" or realises that different people can log in to Steam on the same computer.

But what difference does it make if you log onto a friends Steam account to test it or if you download it instead?

I mean, it's pretty much the same thing, is it not?

Steam has DRM built right into the platform. Your use, while questionable, would be finite.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

But what difference does it make if you log onto a friends Steam account to test it or if you download it instead?

I mean, it's pretty much the same thing, is it not?

The end result is the same, but the means used to achieve it are different. In this case, one is lawful and the other is copyright infringement. It's the difference I suggested above, of hotwiring a car to test-drive it, instead of going to the dealership.

 

[Winthrop]

This question is why demos should return.

There is another side to this, demos aren't as easy to create as you think. Developers can't just "cut out" a chunk of the game and package it into a functional program ready for playing, in most games the code & visuals are a horribly complicated interconnecting mesh, often being worked on by separate teams and then finally being assembled into one playable experience. In fact developers would have to do several beta tests of the DEMO itself to weed out all the bugs that may have popped up during the process of cutting-off the rest of the game. Then there's the additional costs of the release/launch cycle, along with advertising/promotion. Just for a freaking demo.

I don't know the intricate bits of it, but it's a lot more effort than what most people think and is one of the main reasons why demos have become so scarce.

Not only that, demos can actually result in a potential LOSS of sales. If someone thinks "oh god, I didn't like this demo one bit" there's a customer who is instantly lost because they judged the whole game based on the first 30 mins / first mission / whatever. If a demo wasn't available, there would've been a 50/50 chance of that person just taking a leap of faith and buying the whole game - in which case he would've given $60 to the developers and that would've been an instant win (for the developers/publishers I mean). See where I'm getting at?

I think the math-heads at EA/etc have probably calculated that packaging a demo is not worth the boost in sales it can potentially cause (or potential loss). Not true with every game though, looking at Mass Effect 3.

Personally I wish demos would come back (please?) but I can see the reasons why they have faded.

captcha: MARRY ME
No captcha, I'm not ready to commit to this relationship yet, need more time, etc etc

You know I've seen this "Loss in sales" things before (on extra credits not sure if thats where you saw it) and I don't think it takes things into account. My computer is pretty bad. I rarely buy a game if it doesn't have a demo because I'm worried I won't be able to play it. Therefore, if a game I really want doesn't have a demo, I won't buy it (unless its on a ridiculous sale). This makes me a lost sale on every game I want that doesn't have a demo. Still the other point about time and resources is very valid.

 

[Entitled]

The end result is the same, but the means used to achieve it are different. In this case, one is lawful and the other is copyright infringement. It's the difference I suggested above, of hotwiring a car to test-drive it, instead of going to the dealership.

No. Hotwiring a car isn't only wrong because it's a legal offense, but because it involves manipulating someone's property, and physically depriving them of it for a time.

On the other hand, using copyright infringement for a test instad of borrowing the copy, is acually better, since it DOESN'T deprive your friend of his own copy. You don't even need a friend or a Steam account to do it.

Making your own copy of a game that you want to try, is a better alternative than taking an existing copy, from every aspect but the legal one.

 

[Divine Miss Bee]

*after reading the topic and posts*

all i have to say is, WE ARE HAVING THIS DEBATE HAVING ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT THESE PEOPLE SELL US PRODUCTS THAT DO NOT WORK.

instead of having the piracy debate, let's go back to that issue. as far as i'm concerned, it's not even worth stealing if the product is shite to begin with.

(that said, my stance on piracy is "not okay." if you're interested in the game enough to want to play it, everyone involved deserves your money. they sell intangible experiences that give you intangible feelings and satisfaction, and that includes the intangible feeling of "WANT." pay for that, and if you don't like the game later, think about why and avoid games that include those elements you dislike. it's the same as trying a new food. you don't get your money back for a partly eaten box of muffins that you saw and thought looked good if you wind up not liking them. so don't steal muffins or video games. do your research if you want to know you'll like/be able to run a game.)

 

[Dark Prophet]

I'd say it is ok, I have done it several times, if I'm interested in a game and there is no demo or the demo is 10 minutes of gameplay and shit load of nothing then I pirate it and see if I like it. Sometimes if I really liked the game it has led me to buy the whole series, like in case of DoW I even bought the shit one you know the one. Also I have a personal rule of mine, if I enjoy a game enough to play it up to about two hours I'll go and buy it as soon as possible.
While we are on the subject what is it with games not having demos any more.

 

[Dark Prophet]

Another thing, right now I have 4 pirated games on my PC the reason being that the originals that I actually have bought just won't work with my 64 bit windows 7 no matter how much I patch them but the pirated versions run just fine.

 

[USSR]

These two suggestions should be the adequate response to the morality of PC pirating.
(Excluding unobtainable games.)

Just tell your friend to watch a playthrough online and see if he likes the plot/has an impression on gameplay.

And thanks to youtube, you can see how gameplay is on similar specs to your computer.
Assuming you know the basics of PC hardware, it shouldn't be hard to compare.

There are sites that you can go to that will tell you these things.
http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri (like this one! I'm sure there are others but this is the one I personally use)

*Note that I only agree with this section of your post.

And then there are sites like these to reassure you.
Sysreq can be a tad strict sometimes.
http://www.yougamers.com is a tad more lenient.

 

[Auberon]

As long as worthy developer gets supported via payment, it doesn't matter.

 

[LetalisK]

That's not analogous to the OP at all. You don't have to hotwire a car to test drive it. The dealership will most likely give you a set of keys if you're looking to purchase a vehicle. And you can read a few chapters in a bookstore just fine.

Wait, are you suggesting that there's a legal route to test driving a car, such as going to the dealership, instead of smashing the window and hotwiring it? Amazing! I wonder if there are lawful avenues for testing a game as well? Like renting, borrowing, downloading a demo, logging into Steam with an account that already has the game, or waiting for a free weekend? Nah, that would be silly; doing something the unlawful way makes *much* more sense. Pirating a game is obviously the only way a game can be tested.

Edit: Never mind, I see where you're coming from now.

 

[Reincarnatedwolfgod]

As already stated, there are several free sites that will tell you if your computer's specs can handle the game.

According to them, my computer can run Fallout 3.
It cannot.

do you have windows 7? i had that problems. i got it working but the game is still more unstable the fallout New Vegas. saying new Vegas is more stable is not say much because i got it running pretty fuck stable.

fallout 3 for windows 7 had a multicore problem
adding this file helps. d3d9.dll helps-http://fallout3.nexusmods.com/mods/13245
there is the Codec Pack problem
there are might be a few more i can't come up with off the top of my head

yeah steam is not kidding when the say "Fallout 3 is not optimized for Windows 7"

 

[Aethren]

I won't admit to whether or not I pirate games for demo reasons, because, well, *cough*. But some people don't have very good systems, and would much rather pirate a game to see if it could actually be played on said systems, purchasing it for real if it can be. And if it can't, well, beats wasting $60 on a product that can't even be used. Hell, some people, by using this method, end up buying games they wouldn't have even considered purchasing otherwise. Pirating, when used in this context, is nothing more than a demo, and generally the deciding factor on whether to purchase a game or not.

 

[Entitled]

Protip: Turn the box over, the system requirements are written on the back.

I once played Elder Scrolls: Oblivion on a slightly above the required system. It had a viewing distance of about 5 meters, with the trees being flat, blurry, cauliflower-slice shaped textures constantly rotationg in my direction.

Also, it was lagging hard.

You can't buy your cake and steal it too.

No, but I can buy my cake while illegally baking myself another cake based on someone's copyrighted recipe.

Hypothetically speaking.

 

[George Faux]

No it is stealing.

If your asking the question "Is this morally dubious thing I am doing wrong."

Then it is wrong!

Finding other people who will try and assuage your feelings about it does not make it any better.

If you want to play a game buy it.

I you want to test it play a demo.

If there is no demo, read a review.

No one 'needs a game'

If you need a test go to a store and ask.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Nope. I don't think piracy is ever okay. Unless the game is old(as in PS1 or GBA old) and you have no possible means of playing these games with a physical system and game, then I think emulators are free game. They aren't actually selling these games anywhere anymore, and the copies that ARE being sold are on places like or eBay or from another individual. So the developers won't be losing out on any money anyhow.