Poll: Does pirating a game to test it make it okay?

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

So, if I go to Best Buy and steal a graphics card just to test to see if it will work in my computer, then if it will, I go buy it, that isn't stealing?

You need better examples.

Really? comparing piracy to MURDER? And just an FYI, if you buy a graphics card from bestbuy and it doesnt work with your system you are able to return it, the not is true of games.

Again, you people are missing the point (I swear there is not a single person on the internet that comprehends what the concept of an example is, they all have to take it extremely literally). Let me spell it out for you so it may be easier for you to understand...

Piracy is an ACTION. It is wrong because you are taking (or copying since I know some people will go "it's not stealing it is making a copy") something that doesn't belong to you without permission. It ends there.

Pirating a game to "test it" is JUSTIFICATION for an action. It is the reason why you are trying to say that something wrong is not wrong.

As for the murder thing? But I'm not murdering him, I just want to see if my gun will shoot that and still be effective. I have no intent to actually murder him, or even shoot him, I just want to see what a 7.62x39 round will do at 50 feet, but to do so, I'd HAVE to shoot him. Without shooting him, how will I ever know if it would be effective or not? Obviously, the ACTION of shooting him is wrong regardless of why, so no reason I have for doing so could JUSTIFY said action. Get it now?

With Best Buy, again, you missed the point. I'm not talking about returns or anything. It is the concept of taking something just to see if it will work. I could, like any person should unless they know better, look at what I need to run said graphics card, look at what I have, and see if it will run, just like you can do with games. It is never right to steal, even if I plan on paying for it if it does work.

I think it might actually be you that is failing to understand what is going on.

If you're going to pick shitty, completely irrelevent and out-of-scale examples... you should expect to be ignored. One thing isn't like another just because you say it is. I, for one, scoff at what you're suggesting.

You brought up violence, which is interesting. As a species we've had a long-long time to decide when it is and when it isn't acceptable to be violent, or when killing is and isn't acceptable... and we still don't agree on this shit! How can anyone be surprised that there isn't uniformity of moral opinion on something as inane and contrived as copyright infringement?

 

[BarbaricGoose]

snip

I did state why I think it's wrong, it was the very first thing you quoted.

Piracy, I believe, is wrong no matter your justification. It's real easy to say that you're going to purchase this once you've tried it out. It's a lot harder to in real life. Someone earlier said I was calling people stupid because they can't handle the temptation; that's not stupidity, that's human nature and I'll bet on that eventually taking over. You have a copy of the game now; it's a lot easier for you to decide to skip payment once you've gotten what you wanted out of the deal.

How long do you play the pirated version until you're done with your self-created demo? You stated that you could play a game for more than three hours before you figure out if it's worth the money. Is three hours long enough? Maybe you're not 100% sure if you like it, so maybe you'll try it for five hours. Eh....still on the fence? Maybe you'll try it for eight hours. Oh...well, I beat the game. That wasn't worth the money so I won't buy it now.

Everyone says "Oh, that's not going to be ME. I have WAY more self-control than everyone else". Maybe you're right and you have the virtue of Jesus Christ but I'm going to bet on human nature over someone's word.

And yes, paying $60 for a game that might not work does suck but again, that's a risk you take with PC gaming (and a large reason why I'm personally a console gamer). If you are unwilling to accept the risk, allow the price to drop or research the game against your equipment before dropping that money.

So you believe piracy is bad because people are bad? Couldn't that be said about anything, though? I'm not saying piracy is right, but again, in this case I think it's perfectly justified.

And I never said, "you could play a game for more than three hours before you figure out if it's worth the money." I did say that Civ5 doesn't demo well, which it doesn't. Maybe Civ5 IS an exception, but that's only Civ5. I think with most games it really depends on how long the "Story" is. If it's just your average 12-20 hour affair, 2 hours is plenty. If it's a JRPG with a 20 hour long tutorial, or something... eugh. Who knows. If demos were just longer, people wouldn't need piracy for this reason. Like I said, you'd be hard pressed not to enjoy the demo of a game; pretty much every game is going to be fun for 30 minutes.

And I can see your point with human nature, but I disagree. I think as long as you're not an asshole you'll be fine. But maybe assholes aren't aware that they're assholes. Anyway, I find that around post #3 is when internet arguments tend to deteriorate into name-calling, so I'll let you have the last word (if you want), and we'll agree to disagree.

Ciao.

 

[TheTurtleMan]

Morally, I think you'll find it just as easy to sleep at night. In the eyes of the law? Still a pretty grey area.

I will say that people trying to morally justify pirating for this reasoning don't usually stick to this principle of buying the game later. As always with the subject of pirating games, I will always believe there is something incorrect with stealing (yes it is stealing) something that is a luxury to begin with. However the fact that people pirate doesn't annoy me, it's just annoying when people try to defend it from a moral perspective.

Just pirate your copy of Call of Battle Toads and keep your head low when you play it.

Edit: Forgot about the fact that almost every major release has free playable demos. Anything that doesn't probably doesn't have the funds to. Even more holes to this piracy, morality loophole.

 

[MasterBrief]

I went with depends and for me I have done this a couple times played it liked it bought it almost immediately. I did it with Arx Fatalis, Vampire Masquerade Bloodlines and a couple others way back. I don't condone pirating games I've played a couple and didn't like them and deleted them. Thing is I know some people will say yes just to test it and then will not buy a copy. What could solve having to do this is way more games getting demos. I've noticed on PS3 that there is barely any demos coming out for games. I think games should get a demo either before or within a week after release. I think that would fix the problem for people who legit download just to try.

 

[RaNDM G]

I swear if I had a dollar for every time that someone can't understand what an example is, or complete miss the entire point of it, I'd be rich. Anyway, that doesn't help. For this issue at hand, just find a game that has the same requirements that you don't have to pirate (so, like a dummy) and see if it runs.

I got your message. I just wanted to point out why someone would even bother shooting a man when they can get better results with a better alternative. You would have been better off bringing it down to a similar crime with controlled variables.

A better example would be going to the store and trying Monster. There aren't any taste testers around, so you decide to take a can off the shelf and crack it open. Regardless of how it tastes, as long as you pay for it you've done no harm. If you're not paying for it, you just committed petty theft. But if an employee catches you in the act, you're paying no matter what. Naturally there's a degree of risk involved since you are still drinking store property, even if you intended to buy it.

What are the other alternatives? Buy it first or don't even bother.

It's the same basic principle. If you doubt your system can run a game, don't even bother.

 

[Starke]

So I ask you this escapists, is pirating okay if you're planning to test a game and then later on, buy it? Is pirating ever okay, under any condition?

No. I watched Iron Lore get ripped to shreds because the crack that came out before release for Titan Quest was shoddy as hell, and caused random crashes. And, that was the reputation the game got, a buggy, crashy, mess. Not the retail product mind you, the pirated version. Titan Quest's retail failure led to the developer being scrapped after their third release. So, no, it isn't.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Eh... I would have said no before, but I recently blew 30 quid on Dishonoured which for some reason won't run on my PC, and can't return it 'cos I used to code. Starting to feel differently now.

If anyone knows what the hell I do about Error Code 51 on steam it would be much appreciated.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

From the developer's perspective, surely they would say yes? If you are pirating it to test it out then you are obviously considering buying it, so they have nothing to lose. Either you like it and you decide to buy it, or you don't like it and you just delete it and forget about it.

Someone who it smart enough to want to try before they buy, isn't going to buy before they try.

 

[EtherealBeaver]

Really? How isn't it?

The same way trying out your car to see it actually works isnt, how trying on clothes before you buy to make sure it doesnt look like crap and actually fits your "hardware" isnt and like when you buy shoes you will also try them on to make sure you are able to walk in them its also not.

It can not possibly be the consumers responsibility to make market research to make sure a given configuration of hardware will be able to support the game in a satisfactory manner. That is something all other lines of products have employees to help you discover - be it the shop clerk, the package itself, hotlines or something else. Even food has a list of ingridients in case you dont like/is allergic to a certain kind of product - why should games be exempt from this kind of treatment (other than a blind bias against copying stuff regardless of its intentions)?


Edit: Case in point:

Eh... I would have said no before, but I recently blew 30 quid on Dishonoured which for some reason won't run on my PC, and can't return it 'cos I used to code. Starting to feel differently now.

If anyone knows what the hell I do about Error Code 51 on steam it would be much appreciated.

If he had "tried it on" before buying it, he wouldnt be in this situation.

 

[wabbbit]

There are way too many people taking sides on this when it's obvious that its both correct and incorrect.

In an age of digital distribution where you can't return games I see nothing wrong with pirating it to see if it will run (as most games don't have demo's) as canYouRunIt.com is often wrong. Of course, if you didn't plan on purchasing it at all then yeah, I suppose it's wrong...

Also..

That would be like sneaking into a movie and only paying if you liked it. How is it morally grey? Then only way it comes close to morally grey is if you pirate it to test then buy it next time it discounted even if you couldn't run the game.

you can't be serious...

It is nothing like sneaking into a movie, at all.
Maybe if you have new, fancy replacement cybernetic eyes and you are not sure if your new eyes are compatible with the 3D glasses at you local cinema and you kindly ask the manager to check it out for a minute and if it works then you buy a ticket.

Even so, paying for a game (even if it is discounted) you know for a fact you cannot play is rather ridiculous.

How isn't it? Technically you aren't "stealing" anything. Nobody is "losing" anything. If I paid $10 to see a movie and it turns out to be shit, then I'd be pretty pissed. Just like if I go buy a game that I can't run on my PC (which has happened before). Pirating is still pirating, no matter what bullshit excuse you use for why you are doing it.

Oh please...
It's not piracy if it's only done to check if the goddamn game will run on a system.
He's not going to test play it, not going to use it as a demo, but only check to see if it will run at all on the PC in question.

Look at the example above (the one you quoted) again

Really? How isn't it? If I shoot you just to see if you will survive, is it still attempted murder? I had no intent to murder you, but I still shot you. So, if I go to Best Buy and steal a graphics card just to test to see if it will work in my computer, then if it will, I go buy it, that isn't stealing?

You just don't get it, I don't know if you are a pirate and/or just in extreme ignorant denial. Piracy:

the unauthorized reproduction or use of a copyrighted book, recording, television program, patented invention, trademarked product, etc.

Piracy is the act of the above, it has nothing to do with whatever reason you make up to justify it. You have to pirate the game in the first place to try it. Again, would it be ok with you if I shoot you just to see if you survive, or if one of my guns could shoot that far and still do damage, or whatever reason I make up to say that me shooting you is perfectly ok and legal?

Did you honestly compare piracy to murder... Oh dear, that's all I'm going to say.

 

[Your Fearless Captain]

I think that if you pirate a game to see if you like it your just scooting by on the legit train but I think it's fine to pirate if your see if it will run on your junky laptop. It is not however fine to pirate a game to see how well it runs on your gaming rig.

 

[Kaavel1993]

Ive had this issue quite recently. I bought TorchLight 2 on steam and i couldnt get it to run on my laptop. I wasnt very optimistic mind you as it?s a pretty naff pc anyway. But hell. I liked Torchlight and really wanted to play the second. So installed it loaded it and... Torchlight 2 has stopped working.... Every time I try to play it. So I can understand where people are coming from with this. Pirating is wrong. Illegally obtaining Movies and things like that. Which sucks I must say. Im a massive walking Dead fan but because I dont have Sky or what have you I cant watch it until the DVD comes out sometime next year. I can see where the temptation is. But when it comes to a situation like this where you risk wasting money on a game that can only be purchased online with no refunds... Id say try it. If it works. Sweet BUY THE GAME. If not then its a shame but you don't lose money. When you on a limited income sometimes it?s the only option to ensure you can contribute to a developer you really like.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I swear if I had a dollar for every time that someone can't understand what an example is, or complete miss the entire point of it, I'd be rich. Anyway, that doesn't help. For this issue at hand, just find a game that has the same requirements that you don't have to pirate (so, like a dummy) and see if it runs.

I got your message. I just wanted to point out why someone would even bother shooting a man when they can get better results with a better alternative. You would have been better off bringing it down to a similar crime with controlled variables.

A better example would be going to the store and trying Monster. There aren't any taste testers around, so you decide to take a can off the shelf and crack it open. Regardless of how it tastes, as long as you pay for it you've done no harm. If you're not paying for it, you just committed petty theft. But if an employee catches you in the act, you're paying no matter what. Naturally there's a degree of risk involved since you are still drinking store property, even if you intended to buy it.

What are the other alternatives? Buy it first or don't even bother.

It's the same basic principle. If you doubt your system can run a game, don't even bother.

Why do we even need an example or an analogy at all? Are we somehow incapable of judging a situation by it's own merits? Whenever I read an analogy like that, I just write it off as a lame attempt at tricking me into agreeing. It's lazy reasoning, it's making a case without actually having to make any kind of case at all.

How convenient!

 

[Mordwyl]

The majority of AAA publishers don't want my money anyway, considering how they try so hard to not let me play their games.

 

[Baldr]

There are plenty of legitimate ways to try a game before buying. Demos, rentals(Redbox, BB, Gamefly), and online streaming(OnLive).

The requirements are listed on the box. If you don't know, then don't buy it. I rather our company loose a sale than let someone pirate our game.

 

[xdiesp]

Of course it's not okay. Because bad games are specifically developed to hide themselves behind a wall of hype, smoke and mirrors so you end up buying them and get scammed.

 

[EtherealBeaver]

There are plenty of legitimate ways to try a game before buying.

Lets take a look shall we?

Demos

Far from all games have demos and the ones who have are often very misleading

rentals(Redbox, BB, Gamefly)

If they happen to have that specific game you wanted sure. Around here, those stores rarely have more than the 100 newest games since the rest are sold off. And that only accounts for the AAA Boxed games - if the game doesnt have to be in a boxed edition or more than a few months old, that option is out.

online streaming(OnLive).

Which doesnt answer the question: Does it run on my hardware configuration?

The requirements are listed on the box. If you don't know, then don't buy it.

And what if my hardware configuration doesnt support it? Not specs just configeration - it happens a lot and good devs will try and root them out before launch but that is far from the standard unfortunately. For eksample, during the very early alpha builds of dota2 we had a ton of testing to do regarding which computers could and couldnt run it regardless of "high end" or "low end" pc´s. Some games have wierd bugs which doesnt work with specific components regardless of whether they should technically do so or not. Taking my previous example into considerration (and if you cant scroll up and read it you are at least as bad as the people you criticize for not having the time to go to 10 different stores to find the game they want to rent)

I rather our company loose a sale than let someone pirate our game.

If you work at said company I would probably prefer not supporting them either.

Why should the industry not be held accountable for outright misleading demos? Why should the consumer be to blame if the producer of a game did not test it well enough on enough different hardware configurations? Why should the consumer be taking the risks in all of this? 60$ is a lot of money to many people and even if it was not, that should not be a blank permission slip to the game developers.

As I said before (but which has been conviniently ignored): You would not buy any other product for 60$+ without trying it first so why should games be exempt? Shirts, shoes, cars, houses, scarfs, CDs, glasses, speakers, phones, you name it and you have the option to try before you buy.

There is absolutely no reason why games should be different and the only reason it isn´t is because some shoddy game publishers want to be able to ship their faulty and badly testet crap and to make sure the customers are the ones paying the bill, they hype up piracy as an intrinsically bad thing.

Switzerland actually made a study (as the only country in the world) before they discussed the piracy laws - and as opposed to the studies paid off by the publishers, this one actually showed that piracy is a good thing for the business. (Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/12/05/swiss-government-study-finds-internet-downloads-increase-sales/ )

So why again should people not be allowed to see if the thing actually works before they install it?

 

[RaNDM G]

Why do we even need an example or an analogy at all? Are we somehow incapable of judging a situation by it's own merits? Whenever I read an analogy like that, I just write it off as a lame attempt at tricking me into agreeing. It's lazy reasoning, it's making a case without actually having to make any kind of case at all.

I wasn't really making an argument to begin with. Just wanted to elaborate on someone else's dumb analogy.

If I wanted to write an argument with detailed evidence, references to the law, and issues on how subjective the morality of this issue is, I would have to write an essay for it. Fortunately for you and I, I lack the time and patience for such a thing. So I'll just sum up my thoughts with a brief statement.

Can you justify illegal downloading? Yes, but that doesn't excuse it from being petty theft. The "try before you buy" argument is not sound reasoning for a sealed product or software downloading. In the case of software, oftentimes whatever build you download is not representative of the final product. If you want to try something, look for trials or demos instead. I don't think Payday has anything like that though, except on the PS3, so OP is out of luck there.

For the OP, if you think your friend's laptop can't handle a game, it most likely won't. Check your configuration and the game's minimum specs first.

This discussion most likely will not change people's opinions. That's not what I like to do. I think it's more important to just make a point and leave it at that, unless you enjoy messing with people.

 

[MadHatter1993]

last time i pirated a game, it was bastion, now i bought 5 different copies and over 10 different merchandise. i love that game. so in that regard, because i pirated Bastion, it has compelled me to buy 5 more copies ( one Indie bundle) and lots of cool do dads. so i think they got their money and more.