Poll: "Don't look at me when I wear skimpy clothes!"

[neonsword13-ops]

Isn't wearing skimpy clothing and saying, "Don't look at my body, perv!" a contradiction?

The creep guy is fine, I think the problem is with the girl.
Maybe she needs to choose her clothing more carefully.

 

[dvd_72]

Sort of...ish. Despite the respect (or lack there of) that some women have for properity (probably spelt that wrong, but bleh), manners, and themselvs, that doesn't give us men the excuse to display that same lack of respect for said woman.

So yes, she was clearly asking to be stared at by pretty much everyone, but any gentle man knows not to stare no matter how openly they display themselvs.

In conclusion: shame on them both.

 

[AstylahAthrys]

As a woman, I say wearing skimpy clothes will result in staring, and if you don't want people staring, don't wear skimpy clothes. Staring at something that catches the eye is a natural reaction. Also, I will not apologize for staring at a hot shirtless guy so I can't be a hypocrite and say guys can't look at a girl in short shorts.

Also, fuck the flute section. I was one, and I hated every girl in my section. Only reason I stuck with it was that I was section leader.

 

[AwkwardTurtle]

Well she's just asking for it isn't she? And women wonder why they get raped, HAH.

Seriously? I hope that's a joke...
Rape jokes really aren't funny.

 

[The_ModeRazor]

Bah. Ugly/creepy guy stares, it's wrong. Handsome does it, gurl feels appreciated.

The world doesn't run on fairness. It runs on the base animal instincts we evolved with.

 

[TonyVonTonyus]

If I wore a Star Fleet uniform to school people would stare at me, albeit in a "that guy if wierd and/or insane" type of way so if one were to dress like the person in the OP's post they should know at least someone will stare at her.

 

[AwkwardTurtle]

Well she's just asking for it isn't she? And women wonder why they get raped, HAH.

Seriously? I hope that's a joke...
Rape jokes really aren't funny.

To me it was

I don't mean to personally attack you good sir(possibly madam, but seems unlikely), but would it still be funny if your mother or a close female friend was raped?
I doubt it.
I'm done~

 

[CatsAttackAgain]

Why wear something like that if you don't want to be seen?

 

[pppppppppppppppppp]

Okay, so I was at marching band this morning and this flute player started blowing up at the guy next to her because apparently, he was staring at her a bit too much. The thing was, though, that while everyone else followed dress code and wore a t-shirt and shorts, she decided to wear a side-less shirt and bra underneath with ridiculously short cut-offs.

Obviously, oggling at someone else extensively is disrespectful to them, but when you choose to wear revealing clothing, what exactly do you expect from people? I mean, if a guy walked around with his shirt off all day, it'd be because he wants women (and not just women he specifically likes) to notice his body; why is the opposite true for so many women?

To be fair, the staring guy has a reputation for being a huge creep, but if he'd been a regular stranger who was discrete about it and it's clear the girl is trying to show off as much skin as possible, is he allowed to oggle or no? Why or why not?

Oh, and yay for politically incorrect gender stereotyping!

I wanted to reply to all the wonderful points you made!

I personally love discussing gender so thank you for the opportunity! *ahem*

My first question is, was it hot that day? Cause if it was hot I think she was perfectly justified in wearing what she wore. (Although I suppose it is bad in breaking uniform)

Did you ever consider the idea that a woman might not wear 'revealing' clothing cause they want to be stared at, but simply cause it was hot and it's comfortable to wear loose clothing like that.

Unfortunately it's a really depressing and sad reality women live in where no matter what they wear they pretty much expect to be ogled by men everywhere. I know this because I've had this discussion with women. The majority that I talked to agree that they've literally worn sweaters and pants on hot summer days because they didn't want to risk being ogled, but were ogled anyway. It would be nice if we lived in a world where women weren't constantly objectified each and every day.

Now this is interesting. The point you make about a guy walking around with his shirt off all day. You have to understand the differences here. You make the assumption that the man takes off his shirt wanting everyone to see his body. There just isn't a stigma about the exposure of the male body. The way a male feels about his body and the way a woman feels about her body are two drastically different things. Men live in a society where they aren't raised to particularly care about what they look like, aside from wearing presentable in appropriate situations. (such as a business meeting or a formal party etc.) Women are raised with a magnifying glass constantly against their body. Men judge them, other women judge them, and even their family judges them. There is a constant of debate on what is okay and what isn't okay in terms of their physical appearance. A man can go to the beach, take his shirt off and feel nothing. A woman can go to the beach, wear a bikini and feel the stare of a thousand eyes. It isn't exactly always comfortable for a woman to be looked at by everyone, while a man will normally feel nothing.

Have you ever taken off your shirt and walked around in public expecting the stares of others? I can't help but feel when you imagine this scenario the man will simply be getting nice looks with an occasional compliment from women, and it'll feel great. This is far from the truth, if women were to behave as men. We did an experiment at school to let males experience the feeling of having all the different kinds looks and ...words said to him that a girl receives whenever she steps outside. It isn't fun. I hope to never, ever, ever experience this again. Ever. I felt like a piece of meat. If you are curious I can describe in more detail. Both how I felt and how the experiment worked, but I don't think it's really necessary as of right now.^^ Trust me on this one.

So in short, yes the guy was in the wrong. It doesn't matter what the girl was wearing because this sort of "blame the victim" mentality is what leads to reasoning is just as illogical as a criminal saying "Well it's not my fault I killed him, he should have been able to stop me." If she responded by saying "Don't look at me." she felt uncomfortable and is justified in having that feeling and asking the guy to stop.

Just because something is unfortunately accepted as a social norm doesn't mean it's okay, nor does it mean that it's the right thing to do.

P.S Glass Joe the Champ, if you'd like to have an even further in depth discussion about gender please, feel free to PM me or respond here with any questions/counterarguments you would like to bring up!

Hm, interesting viewpoint you've brought; I'd love to respond to it.

First, I'll say that while it was fairly hot that day, it wasn't too hot for a t-shirt and shorts and it was pretty clear she wore the outfit at least with the intention of appearing attractive, if not with the intention of attracting attention. She knew she would get yelled at by our directors (and did) for her outfit, and she wouldn't take that risk simply to be a bit cooler. You don't wear lingerie to school to stay cooled off, you just don't.

Secondly, the idea that women will be judged more based on their looks is really a self-fulfilling prophesy. While men can definitely judge women on their appearance, women are generally the ones who overemphasize the importance of looks for themselves and for each other. If a girl wears an outfit that doesn't match well or is tacky, she'll most likely get criticism from other girls, and from her own sense of fashion. In the same vein, a "metrosexual" man can care a lot about his appearance and be just as hurt when he walks outside and gets a reaction from people he doesn't want; it's all about personal mentality, and it can affect both genders.

Men will always judge a women on their body, as women will judge men (and they do; there's a clear difference between this guy [http://gulpdis.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/hot-buff-guy-in-jeans.jpg] in women's eyes.) The only difference, as you say, is that men are raised not to care as much what people think about their appearance (but there are exceptions, see metrosexual guy up there). If women decided they didn't care about appearances and wanted to wear comfortable clothes and not wear makeup or anything like that, men would have to suck it up and deal with it. It's only because women perpetuate their own double-standards that men are culturally allowed to treat a woman like a product on display.

So again, if she didn't want people to treat her based on her appearance, she shouldn't have communicated that appearances were crucially important to her. No one was staring at the girls in t-shirts who just wanted to practice, and if those girls were getting attention, they would have a good mind not to care.

 

[darth gditch]

All right.

It is rude to stare. No questions asked, no matter what she's wearing.

But is it hypocritical of her to tell him off while wearing clearly provocative clothing? Yes. Yes it is.

I know it is not an excuse, but come on. Simple common sense, the more skin you show, the more attention you will get (generally). Good and bad attention, it's just how men's brains are wired. Sure men can totally control what they do about it; it's not like wearing skimpy clothing FORCES guys to stare, but we WILL notice.

 

[aescuder]

"Oh no, people are staring at me because I look HoT as F**k! What a horrible world we live in!"


I wish I had this problem more often.

 

[Sarah Frazier]

Coming from a straight woman: If a person is flashing skin, chances are I'll look whether they're male or female. It happens and it's something I just can't explain most of the time. The person doesn't even have to be particularly attractive.

The same likely applies to most other people, be they straight or gay, single or spoken for, or whether they find that person attractive or not. It. Just. Happens. Some people even stare at others who aren't flashing skin, but showing off will get a wider audience. There's no way to make it so just one specific person looks at you and nobody else, so stop complaining and deal with it unless they're obviously leering in a creepy way.

 

[Beliyal]

snippy

Nice post! I agree with you on this issue and I wondered about it while reading the thread. People somehow immediately assumed that she wore skimpy clothes because she wanted people to look at her or to attract attention. As far as I've read, no one (but you) suggested that she may be wearing "skimpy" clothes because it was very hot. Personally, I hate summer and hot weather and it's very difficult to dress up, especially considering the bra and I'd often like to take clothes that might be considered skimpy. I love skirts during summer, and shirts without sleeves that may have a bit too revealing cleavage; is that skimpy? Do I want others to ogle my legs or cleavage? Well, no, I don't. And I'm not seeking attention or wanting to "score". I usually restrain from dressing like that, and only because I worry that people will feel uncomfortable if I lean and my cleavage shows and they are caught staring. So I go out and sweat more than it's necessary instead of just dressing up lightly because some people might stare and call me an attention whore. Yay for social norms.

I won't say that men don't have problems, though. They do. If they are "unfortunately" a bit overweight or a bit skinny, people will laugh and/or tease, but it's very well known that it affects women (especially young women) a lot harder. It's not just the teasing about the physical look, but also possible harassment, staring, commenting and name-calling ("Look at that whore!". I've never witnessed a man being called names because he took off his shirt because it was hot. People immediately assume that he didn't do it because he wants attention and staring, but because it was hot, obviously. If a woman takes off her shirt, she'll immediately be considered a whore and no matter what her reasoning is, nobody will just let it go and say "Well, it's just hot". She'll be a whore, seeking attention and looking for being ogled and stared at, because, why the hell would she take off her clothes otherwise?).

It would be nice if we could just collectively get rid of stupid social norms regarding both genders. Let people wear and be whatever they want, without prejudice.

 

[Hagi]

By all means, complain about it and try to change it.

But don't blow up on someone over it, as in the OP. Two wrongs do not make a right.

There are socially acceptable ways of dealing with rudeness. Being just as rude or even ruder back at them is not one of them.

If you don't have the patience to deal with rudeness in such a way then don't do things that greatly increase the chance of people treating you rudely. If you're prone to blowing up when someone stares at you then don't wear skimpy clothing. Just because they were rude doesn't make it okay for you to be rude back. An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind.

It's not wrong to disagree with the way people treat you. It is not up to the victim to decide if they want their rights to be restricted or to be under the scrutiny of others. I do sort of agree with you about patience, but it is not the victim's responsibility to have patience. With that sort of mindset, anyone who was discriminated against would be in the wrong to demand equality. If you're in the United States in the 50's and you're African American, would you be wrong to enter a restaurant and sit down when you know you'll be chased out and called names? It's not easy to change society, not a lot of people will like you, but it doesn't mean you give up and try to blend in.

As I said. Disagreeing is fine. It's great.

But it is the victim's responsibility to be patient. Such is the responsibility of all responsible adults.

There's two ways to protest:

With a calculated, patient and clear intent like Martin Luther King and Gandhi. They didn't advocate violence and harsh actions. They advocated patience and resolve. And the world remembers them the better for it.

Or you can do it with impatient harsh actions like so many terrorist groups over the world. Who think wrongs done to them justify them doing wrongs to others. They advocate harsh and rash actions. And the world thinks the worse of them.

Calm, patient, determined and resolved protest is what changes the world for the better, not impatient, rash and harsh actions.

 

[Hagi]

Did you just compare the civil right movement to some woman getting looked at in a "rude way"?

I lol'd.

Yes, I did. There was a time that people fighting for civil rights were seen as just as ridiculous as women who are harassed today. And selfish for wanting to be seen as humans and not humans with extra stuff.

Your quoting skills are extremely lacking, young padawan. That post I did not make.

 

[geier]

If you don't want someone to stare at the "exhibit" then wear a burka.

 

[Takumashii]

As I said. Disagreeing is fine. It's great.

But it is the victim's responsibility to be patient. Such is the responsibility of all responsible adults.

There's two ways to protest:

With a calculated, patient and clear intent like Martin Luther King and Gandhi. They didn't advocate violence and harsh actions. They advocated patience and resolve. And the world remembers them the better for it.

Or you can do it with impatient harsh actions like so many terrorist groups over the world. Who think wrongs done to them justify them doing wrongs to others. They advocate harsh and rash actions. And the world thinks the worse of them.

Calm, patient, determined and resolved protest is what changes the world for the better, not impatient, rash and harsh actions.

Sorry about that misquote, and correct me if I'm wrong, but no one felt Martin Luther King or Ghandi were patient at those actual times. People on the other side felt they were trouble makers. And I'm not sure what the OP means when he says she blew up at him, for all we know she could've been spewing profanities and hitting him or she could've been yelling about how much it bothered her. Either way I don't think the blame should be on her at all.