Poll: Dubstep. Music or not music?
- Thread starter rvbnut
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Recently, I have allowed myself to adopt the widest possible view of music (and art), being that any intentional noise is music, because there is another important component: being music does not make it good music. So yes, it is music.
That said, I like some dubstep. Skrillex, even. But being electronic, it is of course also home to many s***ty attempts by people who have no idea what they're doing, or any real reason to do it.
As far as I'm concerned, this thread is like posting a picture of an abstract painting and asking if it's art. It is, but not everyone will like it.
That said, I like some dubstep. Skrillex, even. But being electronic, it is of course also home to many s***ty attempts by people who have no idea what they're doing, or any real reason to do it.
As far as I'm concerned, this thread is like posting a picture of an abstract painting and asking if it's art. It is, but not everyone will like it.
I think your mistake here is depending on the sub-genre I don't belive electronic has to ONLY be for such a shallow purpose as dance music..theres some awsome stuff there..dubstep or otheriwise, its not always a shallow genregenerals3 said:
granted alot of dubsteb currently is god awful Skrillex wannabe shit, but there are gems
and electronic in general is awsome
and if a dubstep song makes me feel a certain way...you can't tell me I'm wrong
That is correct but if it doesn't make me feel anything you can't tell me i'm wrong either. For me dubsteb expresses nothing, it has no beauty of form and let alone harmony. As such i just cannot consider it as music.Vault101 said:
It's like a random painting which is just grey. For me that's not art at all, it's just grey paint. But apparently some people think it's art because i saw that painting in a museum.
that would be telling you that your wrong not to like it..which obviously I'm not doing and no one can dogenerals3 said:
however I think music istelf is subjective and personal...[b/]definitions[/b] however are not, when somone says dubstep is "not music" then they are applying that universally, which when you think about is kind of rediculous
you can say you don;t like dubtep
you can even say you don't find any artistic merit in it
but saying it "isn't" music is like me looking at a painting I don;t like and saying it isn't a painting..I can say I don't think its art..but no matter how much I hate it.. it is still a painting
This is the first definition of music in the oxford dictionary:Vault101 said:
Definition of music
noun
[mass noun]
1vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion: couples were dancing to the music
This is pretty subjective wouldn't you say. What i consider "beauty of form" you may not. You can see an expression of emotion i do not, etc.
And art is subjective too:
Definition of art
noun
1 [mass noun] the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power:
When i see a grey painting i do not see something that people made to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power. I just see a painting made by a guy who tried to make a quick buck by scamming people. And it is again not a matter of liking it or not. There are paintings i consider much much more ugly than just a grey square but in which i can see the artist wanted to accomplish something. A grey painting is like me pissing on the street, it's just random stuff.
I skimmed, was in a little bit of a rush to get to my voluntary stuff. Again, I stand by my opinion.Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Aren't there a number of songs in games that are made by orchestras? I think Halo and MGS do, though I am not certain.
If you want to call them people wankers, then that is up to you. Although if you are wanking like guitar players play a guitar, you're doing it wrong.GoaThief said:
Music was a game on the PS1.
Yup, seems really hard to do!
How do you get to fashion victim? You haven't seen my clothes and were not even talking about clothes ...
Not to call you a liar but I think you know what I am talking about ...Vault101 said:
I am pretty confident that given a while to get used to how an the programmes and equipment work, I could make a dubstep track ... granted due to my taste not being the same as the fans of the genre, it would be considered by everyone as a total mess but to me it would sound the same as the other songs ... like how all metal sounds the same to somebody who isn't into it.
Well that last paragraph is up to you, I think almost every single electronic song is crap, while I haven't heard every song I am pretty confident in that statement but that is just me.
"I listen to music for music..unless I'm there I dont want it live" ... what?
Can this end now? It's very unlikely anybody will change my mind, all I am getting from these quoters (making up words FTW!) is "you're insulting stuff I like 'cos you don't like it!".
It's not about me liking it, to be honest the music in the borderlands mad moxxies under dome boss fights is quite awesome and I don't hate the borderlands 2 wubwub
no..I don't.if you are an actual musician then I apologise for missing that factomega 616 said:
[quote/]I am pretty confident that given a while to get used to how an the programmes and equipment work, I could make a dubstep track[/quote]
if you are a musician with skill then you might make somthing good.....if not then it might be prett shit
I'm not saying any idiot who puts together a dubstep track is good...no alot of it is eather "ok" or crap
[quote/] ... granted due to my taste not being the same as the fans of the genre, it would be considered by everyone as a total mess but to me it would sound the same as the other songs ... like how all metal sounds the same to somebody who isn't into it.[/quote]what are you trying to say? that essentially you admit you can't tell the good from the bad?
[quote/]Well that last paragraph is up to you, I think almost [b/]every single[/b] electronic song is crap,[/quote]
[quote/]every single[/quote]
don't dig yourself a hole here, in fact Id be interested to see how many songs you like that ave heavy use of production/electronic technique...is trent reznor talentless because his music makes big use of eletronics?
I could show you some songs but you probably would not like them
THE FACT THAT YOU DO NOT LIKE THEM DOES NOT MAKE THEM OBJECTIVLY CRAP <-just to push the point
computers and the stuff they use are merely tools..you cant judge the final product or skill level on tools alone
you dont liek the sound..good for you..but dont sit there on a high hoarse just because things don;t match up from your perspective
I dont care that you don't like electronic no one is trying to MAKE you like it..but what pisses me off is the ignorance and arrogance in your attitude
the definition of art..or what is or isnt "art" is alot more blurry than the definition of musicVault101 said:
[quote/]Why the fuck does it make him sound like an elitist?[/quote]
because its the same bullshit people pull when it comes to music "I do not like it therefore it has no merit whatsoever" never mind those who do and also probably know more about music. its elitist because they dislike it so much then it couldnt [i/]possibly[/i] be music...again saying it isnt music isnt the same as calling it crap by refusing to call it music they are somehow trying to discret it r.
[quote/]He didn't claim to be better than any one[/quote]
didn't need to
[quote/]The people that get pissed off about others opinions like this are sensitive twits that should be ignored, unless they want to discuss it of course.[/quote]
or you know...people who weild ignorance and arrogance as a double edged sword with pride are also twits[/quote]
No, it's all subjective in the end. The guy said it's technically music but not to him, so get over it. Your making a mountain out of mole hill.
Also, that's not elitist, he needs to say something that makes him sound superior to be called elitist. Plus, it isn't always as black & white as you make it, people don't always just dismiss things because they just don't like it.
As for ignorance and arrogance, you've joined the party.
if you are a musician with skill then you might make somthing good.....if not then it might be prett shitVault101 said:
I'm not saying any idiot who puts together a dubstep track is good...no alot of it is eather "ok" or crap
[quote/] ... granted due to my taste not being the same as the fans of the genre, it would be considered by everyone as a total mess but to me it would sound the same as the other songs ... like how all metal sounds the same to somebody who isn't into it.[/quote]what are you trying to say? that essentially you admit you can't tell the good from the bad?
[quote/]Well that last paragraph is up to you, I think almost [b/]every single[/b] electronic song is crap,[/quote]
[quote/]every single[/quote]
don't dig yourself a hole here, in fact Id be interested to see how many songs you like that ave heavy use of production/electronic technique...is trent reznor talentless because his music makes big use of eletronics?
I could show you some songs but you probably would not like them
THE FACT THAT YOU DO NOT LIKE THEM DOES NOT MAKE THEM OBJECTIVLY CRAP <-just to push the point
computers and the stuff they use are merely tools..you cant judge the final product or skill level on tools alone
you dont liek the sound..good for you..but dont sit there on a high hoarse just because things don;t match up from your perspective
I dont care that you don't like electronic no one is trying to MAKE you like it..but what pisses me off is the ignorance and arrogance in your attitude[/quote]
Are you ok? Your writing is kind of all over the place, like using the wrong "horse".
Anyway, no, I am not a musician.
I have made it pretty clear that i can't tell the good from the bad 'cos it all sounds the same. No, I don't mean all as in every single song, I mean it as an exaggeration.
You messed up that bolding, by doing which you took it out of context. "almost every single electronic song is crap". That's better.
My point is that it's not music because of the the tools. To me music is made from musical instruments, guitars, drums, piano etc and not something that can synthetically make it.
Sure it can be enjoyable and stuffs but to me it's like eating a cheap chicken nugget ... sure, it tastes like chicken but we all know it's reconstituted skin, tendons etc with added flavorings and all kinds of nasty chemicals. It looks, smells and tastes like a chicken nugget but it's not, a real chicken nugget would be 100% chicken breast in breadcrumbs in the shape of a little ball.
I would call it music lite, if I had to call it something. It's like music but it's not the real mccoy!
Being technical, yes, it's music. When it devolves into wubs and shit (which is what makes it dubstep instead of techno or electronica) it doesn't have a melody, which for those of you unfamiliar with basic music terminology, pretty much refers to something you can sing or play on piano keys. All the wubs and screeches are percussive. So it's essentially like a drum beat, except instead of someone playing the drums, it's someone programming samples to a preset rhythm.
So music, yes, melodic no.
In my personal opinion, fucking awful.
So music, yes, melodic no.
In my personal opinion, fucking awful.
It's music. It may not be music you like, but to claim that it simply is not music is ignorant elitism at it's absolute finest. I personally don't like it, but I don't feel I have the right to claim something is or is not music. If it is artistic expression using rhythm, notes and sounds, then it is music.
It's true, there is a lot of game music written and made by orchestras... mostly big modern games, but there is a lot of music in games old and new that is all programmed!omega 616 said:
Fair play on admitting you skimmed, takes more guts than most people have on here! Definitely having another look at their posts later, to acknowledge them if you get the time, they make some valid discussion points!
I see you take things very literally.omega 616 said:
Do you really think that's how the vast majority of electronic music is created?
The "game" is basically a very basic song rearranging device. Someone has already written the music as it were. Rearranging in the "game" is about as equally difficult as playing three or four chords on a guitar (the vast majority of pop and rock is just that);
... I'd be pretty confident that given a while to get used to holding down a string or two and strumming, most people could play songs on a guitar. Even you, maybe.
This perfectly encapsulates your blinkered mindset. Do you think the word fashion can only relate to clothes?
I think most telling of all is the blatant ignoring of the question regarding your avatar.