Poll: Dubstep. Music or not music?

[Vault101]

As long as there is no drop then I like it. It can be as heavy or hard as it wants to be but the moment it drops its melody then fuck you very much.

not just dubsteo but alot of that kind of stuff the build up is the best part then...

meh

 

[Saulkar]

As long as there is no drop then I like it. It can be as heavy or hard as it wants to be but the moment it drops its melody then fuck you very much.

not just dubsteo but alot of that kind of stuff the build up is the best part then...

meh

I get this a lot with the more extreme heavy metals where they tend to have a very intricate intro and buildup before dropping melody altogether and playing just a repetitive string of notes as fast as they can.

 

[Vault101]

No point in arguing with them Vault. Most who study music have this prejudice so deeply ingrained there is no chance in swaying them. Because something isn't played with a physical instrument that they spent years mastering they can't see the value in musical composition, seeing as most just play back what other musicians have already created and not their own compositions... and even if they do they're simple and forgettable at best. Anyways i'm ranting.

hmm...you know thats not comthing I considered

because mastering an instrument takes practice and dedication then when somone comes along and "can do it all on computers" (which as far as I can tell is an over simplification and BS) then yeah, youd get somwhat resentful....because no one liked being replaced by machines

the fact is I'm pretty sure music in the "recording" sense has been aided by technology for a long time

 

[DugMachine]

No point in arguing with them Vault. Most who study music have this prejudice so deeply ingrained there is no chance in swaying them. Because something isn't played with a physical instrument that they spent years mastering they can't see the value in musical composition, seeing as most just play back what other musicians have already created and not their own compositions... and even if they do they're simple and forgettable at best. Anyways i'm ranting.

hmm...you know thats not comthing I considered

because mastering an instrument takes practice and dedication then when somone comes along and "can do it all on computers" (which as far as I can tell is an over simplification and BS) then yeah, youd get somwhat resentful....because no one liked being replaced by machines

the fact is I'm pretty sure music in the "recording" sense has been aided by technology for a long time

You'd be right. For the past century or so technology has aided music and now it's pretty much peaking with music being created soley on computers. I understand their resentment, I've been playing guitar, piano, and harmonica since I was 7 and of course I hold high regard to musicians who have mastered their instruments. I don't know, I just don't like that a lot of people totally disregard the good electronic producers ability to compose. (and most play instruments as well)

See, playing instruments is fine and all but even i'm not creative when it comes to music. It might have something to do with me not having intense music theory knowledge but all my stuff sounds repetitive and unoriginal. But give me a cover and i'll rock the hell out of it, which is what most 'musicians' do anyways. Again i'm ranting.. sorry

 

[repeating integers]

Before this goes any farther, I'd like to apologize to the OP about this possible derailment into rap vs everything else. Also I see three possible outcomes of this response,none of them good, but what the hell.

Now, to begin, this is not rap. Startling discovery, right? This has no bearing on the conversation at all. It's not rap, and it's not dubstep, so why are you posting it? If you're trying to show the deevolution of sound and evolution of this generation's pain thresholds, then fine. But this is regional, cutural,etc. music.

side note: love your avatar.

Not music?


It has a beat, it has flow, it has pretty much everything as you please. And I'm fairly certain that there is rap, unless everything I've ever known about rap in my life was incorrect.

You quoted the wrong guy, I'm afraid - I am not the OP. I just posted something a page or two back comparing it to metal.

 

[kidd25]

Dubstep is music, but not all things called dubstep is music. though I still prefer it, maybe cause I can find some that just is relaxing, or has some good lyrics to them.

 

[DrBonBon]

Wasn't this conversation already held about rap music. Yes, it is music.

 

[Zing]

Do people actually understand how ridiculous they sound when they declare a whole genre of music "bad" or "shit".

The fact is that people hear sounds differently, some people actually abhor Dubstep psychically, some people love Dubstep(like me). The same can be said of any genre of music.

I voted wubwubwub because this isn't a question even worthy of a serious answser. It's like asking if potato chips are food or not..

 

[Fishyash]

Strict musical rules? do you not know what music is? ... are you really that retarded? go to a symphony play out of time, out of key or the incorrect tempo and watch at they gaze at you so harshly that you may spontaneously combust. Music is nothing but strict rules, to compose a piece of music, it's not slapping a bunch of cool tones together, adding a beat and reaping in the adoration, your ignorance to the art form of music is sickening. Take a look at system of a down, they actually use dissonant chords and minor scales to create pleasant sounding songs, odd time signatures and accents and expressive techniques to create interest in the piece, but saying that did you know that dissonant tones are actually unpleasant and when heard are uncomfortable... like a bad taste because music is nothing but strict rules grab a text book or learn yourself some theory kid.

That's a very "western" (the best term I can think of TBH) mindset you have of music. Music theory is a European creation. Music wasn't thought of in that way in any other part of the world. Hell, Africa, the place that hosted the most complicated rhythms, didn't use time signatures (I'm talking about the "cultural" music by the way, not pop music). Sure, we can translate their music into manuscript, but it isn't really the essence of the music.

I don't think music theory is an instruction manual on how to compose/play music. I think how people enjoy music is the results of cultural conditioning. A few centuries ago if someone made music of the likes of system of a down (I mean the harmonies) they would probably have had their heads chopped off! We have been learning to be accepting of more dissonance over time. Music has been getting "dirtier" (again, for lack of a better word) throughout the ages.

By music buff I mean people who studied for years and earned their classical practical grades you know, those professional session musicians who actually read sheet (not tabs) music and construct music not spew verbal diarrhea and calling it a song.

Eh...

I've practiced piano for over 10 years, and have a sufficient understanding of music theory (beyond reading sheet music), and I'm rather close to making a living off of composing and performing. I really don't see why that matters though in regards to whether or not electronic music is actually music.

I would like to continue discussing this (this is rather off topic though), we seem to have different views on the function of music theory

EDIT:

saying anything electronic (not including amplifiers and effects pedals and boards) can make music is saying anything anywhere with enough persistence can be a musical instrument. The very definition of musical instrument is "various devices that can be used to produce musical tones or sounds belonging to the 4 categories of musical instrument, wind brass, percussion and stringed".

Do you think it's a bad thing that I actually agree with the sentiment that almost anything can be a musical instrument if played musically?

 

[Griffolion]

My point of view is this:

Yes, it's music. It's a combination of sounds with a view to higher form. It's part of the arts. And in the arts, everything must be fair game for exploration.

Now, whether people like dubstep is a different matter, but that's an opinion, to which everyone has one.

If people dislike dubstep because of Skrillex etc, then I'll recommend to you this:


There's a nicer side to dubstep. I listen to this guy when I'm relaxing in the bath.

 

[ElPatron]

I'm taking what you said literally here and that you just can't hear basic music structure in dubstep.

Read again. I didn't say all dubstep was noise, so don't start implying things.

 

[DugMachine]

I'm taking what you said literally here and that you just can't hear basic music structure in dubstep.

Read again. I didn't say all dubstep was noise, so don't start implying things.

Not trying to imply you hate all of whatever genre. I just took what you said in the literal sense, that you can't pick up on basic musical structure. But obviously you can so i'll just leave it at that.

 

[DugMachine]

Anyways, done with this topic. I love music and studied it as much as the next guy but people who get so deeply offended by someone else's taste in music is just about the most retarded thing ever.

Most (not all) the musical buffs i've met that have majors in the field are too set in their ways and there is really NO way in swaying them. Threads like these are the only time music buffs come out of the woodwork to proudly throw around their knowledge of the theory and grasp of the physical playing cause nobody gives a shit anywhere else. I'm out, fuck off music elitists.

 

[Vault101]

wow.

okay, first off, that (song) was terrible, but using your argument I could use a vast array of my farts as long as they have tonal value and arrange them in the same way and it's music?

I wasnt expecting you to like it I just wanted to know if you (for whatever reason) think that is or isnt music....

and you know what? YES your farts arranged in such a way would be music as far as I'm concerned, not exactly to anyones taste but still music


[quote/]glorified wank projects to me are not music...[/quote]
glorified wank project? isnt that pretty much most forms of music?


[quote/]Strict musical rules? do you not know what music is?[/quote]
I didn't say strict I said [b/]arbitrary[/b]....saying somthing isnt music becuase its made on a computer seems arbitary to me...also considering how music has been aided by technology for a long time (as far as recording goes)

[quote/]... are you really that retarded?[/quote]
no need for that

[quote/]go to a symphony play out of time, out of key or the incorrect tempo and watch at they gaze at you so harshly that you may spontaneously combust.[/quote]
oh HERP DERP!!! I didnt know that /sarcasm

[quote/]Music is nothing but strict rules, to compose a piece of music, it's not slapping a bunch of cool tones together, adding a beat and reaping in the adoration,[/quote]
again..putting words into my mouth but whatever

[quote/]your ignorance to the art form of music is sickening.[/quote]
at least I don't call people retarded

[quote/]Take a look at system of a down, they actually use dissonant chords and minor scales to create pleasant sounding songs, odd time signatures and accents and expressive techniques to create interest in the piece,[/quote]
I've heard of them..rock music..mabye I will though rock isnt my favorite genre

[quote/]but saying that did you know that dissonant tones are actually unpleasant and when heard are uncomfortable... like a bad taste because music is nothing but strict rules grab a text book or learn yourself some theory kid.[/quote]
again..I never said it wasnt


[quote/]By music buff I mean people who studied for years and earned their classical practical grades you know, those professional session musicians who actually read sheet (not tabs) music and construct music not spew verbal diarrhea and calling it a song.[/quote]
ohhh right "classically" trained mucisians...

you know what? I SITLL don;t get it...to me it still sounds like "its not music because the sounds are made digitally and not organically"


[quote/]and no music is not only about the tools, but you need those tools to create the music, again saying anything electronic (not including amplifiers and effects pedals and boards) can make music is saying anything anywhere with enough persistence can be a musical instrument. The very definition of musical instrument is "various devices that can be used to produce musical tones or sounds belonging to the 4 categories of musical instrument, wind brass, percussion and stringed".[/quote]

mabye its just my retardedness sneaking up on me again but I still don't buy it..synthasisers and whatnot can still create those specific sounds and notes needed to create music

[quote/]I bet you didn't even know the piano is a percussion instrument [/quote]
which has fuck all to do with what? aside from pointing out how much of a retard I am


[quote/]I do not forget how diverse electronica is, I just don't agree nor promote it's use in music because I wholly believe it has no place in music....[/quote]
I have a felling its because you just really hate the Idea that people can make music from computers as opoase to instruments..no one liked being replaced by machines

[quote/]so please do me a favor and stop comment back because you are clearly not about to change my opinion on something that means this much to me.... so kindly go bug other people who actually have the time for this and aren't spending their lunch breaks arguing with twats who wouldn't know music if it jabbed them in the bonce.[/quote]

I'm not trying to change your mind...just trying to understand..but obviously a pleb like me is truly too stupid to understand anything

I've practiced piano for over 10 years, and have a sufficient understanding of music theory (beyond reading sheet music), and I'm rather close to making a living off of composing and performing. I really don't see why that matters though in regards to whether or not electronic music is actually music.

so what do you think fishyash? I am I musical retard? because I would really like to know so that I may change my ways before its too late

 

[Hazy992]

snip

Spoiler: Here's a man playing music with wineglasses.

Your argument is invalid.

And also, you're rude and obnoxious. Learn some fucking manners.

He didn't use a cello or a piano or something so it's no music obviously!

Seriously how has this gone on for 10 pages? Dubstep is clearly music

''The art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.'' Dubstep can clearly fit this criteria, unless you're gonna argue that they don't use instruments which I'd argue otherwise.

And with that note (HA!)

 

[Grant Hobba]

wow.

okay, first off, that (song) was terrible, but using your argument I could use a vast array of my farts as long as they have tonal value and arrange them in the same way and it's music?

I wasnt expecting you to like it I just wanted to know if you (for whatever reason) think that is or isnt music....

and you know what? YES your farts arranged in such a way would be music as far as I'm concerned, not exactly to anyones taste but still music


[quote/]glorified wank projects to me are not music...

glorified wank project? isnt that pretty much most forms of music?


[quote/]Strict musical rules? do you not know what music is?[/quote]
I didn't say strict I said [b/]arbitrary[/b]....saying somthing isnt music becuase its made on a computer seems arbitary to me...also considering how music has been aided by technology for a long time (as far as recording goes)

[quote/]... are you really that retarded?[/quote]
no need for that

[quote/]go to a symphony play out of time, out of key or the incorrect tempo and watch at they gaze at you so harshly that you may spontaneously combust.[/quote]
oh HERP DERP!!! I didnt know that /sarcasm

[quote/]Music is nothing but strict rules, to compose a piece of music, it's not slapping a bunch of cool tones together, adding a beat and reaping in the adoration,[/quote]
again..putting words into my mouth but whatever

[quote/]your ignorance to the art form of music is sickening.[/quote]
at least I don't call people retarded

[quote/]Take a look at system of a down, they actually use dissonant chords and minor scales to create pleasant sounding songs, odd time signatures and accents and expressive techniques to create interest in the piece,[/quote]
I've heard of them..rock music..mabye I will though rock isnt my favorite genre

[quote/]but saying that did you know that dissonant tones are actually unpleasant and when heard are uncomfortable... like a bad taste because music is nothing but strict rules grab a text book or learn yourself some theory kid.[/quote]
again..I never said it wasnt


[quote/]By music buff I mean people who studied for years and earned their classical practical grades you know, those professional session musicians who actually read sheet (not tabs) music and construct music not spew verbal diarrhea and calling it a song.[/quote]
ohhh right "classically" trained mucisians...

you know what? I SITLL don;t get it...to me it still sounds like "its not music because the sounds are made digitally and not organically"


[quote/]and no music is not only about the tools, but you need those tools to create the music, again saying anything electronic (not including amplifiers and effects pedals and boards) can make music is saying anything anywhere with enough persistence can be a musical instrument. The very definition of musical instrument is "various devices that can be used to produce musical tones or sounds belonging to the 4 categories of musical instrument, wind brass, percussion and stringed".[/quote]

mabye its just my retardedness sneaking up on me again but I still don't buy it..synthasisers and whatnot can still create those specific sounds and notes needed to create music

[quote/]I bet you didn't even know the piano is a percussion instrument [/quote]
which has fuck all to do with what? aside from pointing out how much of a retard I am


[quote/]I do not forget how diverse electronica is, I just don't agree nor promote it's use in music because I wholly believe it has no place in music....[/quote]
I have a felling its because you just really hate the Idea that people can make music from computers as opoase to instruments..no one liked being replaced by machines

[quote/]so please do me a favor and stop comment back because you are clearly not about to change my opinion on something that means this much to me.... so kindly go bug other people who actually have the time for this and aren't spending their lunch breaks arguing with twats who wouldn't know music if it jabbed them in the bonce.[/quote]

I'm not trying to change your mind...just trying to understand..but obviously a pleb like me is truly too stupid to understand anything

I've practiced piano for over 10 years, and have a sufficient understanding of music theory (beyond reading sheet music), and I'm rather close to making a living off of composing and performing. I really don't see why that matters though in regards to whether or not electronic music is actually music.

so what do you think fishyash? I am I musical retard? because I would really like to know so that I may change my ways before its too late[/quote]

Okay I'll try to keep this one short,

not using an instrument is for the musically talentless.

Oh an synthesizers are not instruments.

Art for the sake or art is one view that music should never have adopted... and the rules regarding musical theory are not arbitrary? to someone who studies music it's kind of blasphemous to say that... you may as well say laws are arbitrary.... or that organ functionality in the body is arbitrary... all rules rules have purpose, composition especially in classical... it wouldn't have existed and without that, you wouldn't have had music the way it is now... Heck even the writers behind pop music are using those rules and you can't tell me despite your views on pop that there is always a catchy song in the pop charts...

Not just bands like System of a Down, just musicians in general (these will be mostly rock because I am a guitarist so I do apologize) but Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Carlos Santana and
Heck the composers of the Piano works from FF10.... just because something can be recorded digitally does not mean the instrument can be replaced and there will never be something that can re create all the expressive techniques instruments can. (synyster gates guitar playing)

I never said in theory or in musical education it isn't music (because it is). I said in my opinion.

I personally don't care what you think I have already made that clear.

If anything with tonal value and ability to be arrange makes music... then with taste is food. That is the extent of my view, if something can not be played with instruments, to me it is not music.

To me digital music is like being able to completely survive on vitamin supplements.... it's just fake and not correct.

 

[Vault101]

Okay I'll try to keep this one short,

not using an instrument is for the musically talentless.

WHY?

as hard as it is for you to belive it actually requires talent/knowing what the fuck your doing to produce somthing half decent using computers/equipment...

sure there are plenty of people who think they can slap together some bass and wubs and call it a day...but alot of that is crap

[quote/]Art for the sake or art is one view that music should never have adopted...[/quote]
I don;t know what you mean by that

but did it ever occur to you the use of certain techniques can be a stlyeistic/artistic choice? take the Moive tron and its soundtrack. Its mostly orchastral but has some electronic added in (courtesy of daft punk) because the story takes place inside of a computer and the sountrack relfects that "feel"


or the Movie Drive featured the song "nightcall" a synthy song with distorted vocals (and normal vocals) which gives across a kind of layed back "retro" feeling...like driving into the sunset in an old hot rod...thus fitting the mood of the film


thease might "not be music" or even trash to you...but to say its without a point or merit is rediculous

[quote/]and the rules regarding musical theory are not arbitrary? to someone who studies music it's kind of blasphemous to say that... you may as well say laws are arbitrary.... or that organ functionality in the body is arbitrary... all rules rules have purpose, composition especially in classical... it wouldn't have existed and without that, you wouldn't have had music the way it is now... Heck even the writers behind pop music are using those rules and you can't tell me despite your views on pop that there is always a catchy song in the pop charts...[/quote]
misundertand me...again

I'm not talking about THE RULES...I'm talking about [b/]YOUR rules. your idea[/b] of what music is and isn't. That you have said "if its on computers is not music" <-THAT statment right there is what seems arbitraity, because regardless of if somone is physically playing it or is composing it on a computer...regardless of skill even...I dont see how it isnt music..I don;t get why such a distinction is so friggen important

...and again nothing you have said has proven otherwise



[quote/]Not just bands like System of a Down, just musicians in general (these will be mostly rock because I am a guitarist so I do apologize) but Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Carlos Santana and
Heck the composers of the Piano works from FF10.... just because something can be recorded digitally does not mean the instrument can be replaced and there will never be something that can re create all the expressive techniques instruments can. (synyster gates guitar playing)[/quote]
not saying instruments can or will be replaced...somthing artificial still sounds artificial

[quote/]I never said in theory or in musical education it isn't music (because it is). I said in my opinion.[/quote]
it still baffles me but whatever...


[quote/]To me digital music is like being able to completely survive on vitamin supplements.... it's just fake and not correct.[/quote]

so essentially...what it call comes down to is [i/]you don't like the way it sounds[/i] because thats all I'm getting

 

[Nouw]

Spoiler: I find this song rather fitting in this discussion.

Listen until the end.

 

[Daveman]

Practically every argument against Dubstep being music can be countered by saying "Surely Pink Floyd isn't music either then?"

You might not get it. A lot of it (like prog rock) is shit. But when it's good, it's good.

Okay I'll try to keep this one short,

not using an instrument is for the musically talentless.

Pants. On. Head. Retarded.