Poll: Elizabeth or Alyx Vance?

[Ishal]

Liz wins hands down, its not even a contest.

Voice acting, mo-cap, and writing. Infinite was about Booker and Liz's story, Half Life-2 and the subsequent episodes were about a bunch of different stuff. Its only natural Liz is a more flushed out actualized character. Plus the little animations of her sitting down, looking around, eating cotton candy etc were great. Were they necessary? Not really, but it was done to try and enhance the companion character, whether it worked or not is up to each player to decide. I tend to think it did. Liz wasn't perfect, but she was helluva lot better than Alyx... who would just stare at me with that awkward stupid smile all the time.

I'll second this. The technology has come a long way, Elizabeth interacts with her environment in a more believable manner. The small details add up to a lot more sympathy and attachment to the character.

Alyx is good, but she's pretty wooden compared to Elizabeth. Like other people have said, it says something that Alyx hasn't really been bested until now, game developers haven't done a good job making believable sidekicks.

You know, there was one game a while back that I heard had a good protagonist/companion relationship. It was a year or two ago, enslaveddyssey to the west I think it was called. I never played it, but I heard it gave a good try but tripped over itself.

There is a reason devs don't do it, its hard. And its hard for just about everyone, programmers, level designers, writers, and testers. Infinite didn't get it 100% right either, Liz jumped on a skyline in front of me and slowed me down, and I was killed because of it (though that got a good laugh out of me). She also stood in the door of a gondola and wouldn't move. But those things are few and far between in my experience so far. They took a pretty big gamble with Liz, there are multiple ways this could have turned out bad, like real bad, Colonial Marines bad, but it didn't.

I wouldn't have said this game "set the bar" for companions or good female characters. But the amount of 5/5 9/10 10/10 scores its getting is pretty wowing, and I won't argue since I love it and love Irrational. I think a lot of games are going to be compared to this and The Last of Us

 

[Ryotknife]

Who do I like more? Well that is an easy answer, Alyx.

Don't get me wrong, Elizabeth is a great character, but I kinda hated her. spoilers incometh

Spoiler

First, she starts fake crying to get me to lower my guard, then beats me in the freakin face with a wrench, and then leaves me to a bunch of fanatical rebels. So thanks for that. I would be PISSED if that happens to me. And yet booker is calm and forgiving. Strike one.

Strike two, she gets all high and mighty on her little soapbox, and yet she is responsible for just as much genocide (and more if we take into account future her). And no, future her had a choice.

Strike three, the moment I stop the experiments in commstock house, her first response is to summon an effing tornado on me. Screw you Elizabeth.

Strike four, she drowns Songbird after she begs him to save them and Songbird risks itself to protect her. That is pretty cold hearted, no matter how you slice it.

Strike five, she drowns Booker who sacrifices life and limb to help and protect her. Noticing a theme here, get close to Elizabeth and she drowns your ass.

Overall, Elizabeth is a backstabbing, spoiled, selfish B$%^&. Great character, funny, personable, but also a horrible human being.

 

[5ilver]

Going with Alyx because she didn't kill me. They're both just male power fantasies though, so I'm not very fond of either one.

 

[J Tyran]

Elizabeth.

I like Alyx, but I don't think she should be held in particularly high regard.

She's a likeable character with a personality, coherent motivations, a sense of humour, well written dialogue and good voice acting. And of course she's female without being ridiculously oversexualised for the sake of pandering.

Now, see, that shouldn't be an outstanding exception. That should be the bare fucking minimum.

The fact that Alyx Vance is hailed as a great character just goes to show how damn low the standards are and how far developer have yet to go in terms of character.

And how is Alyx not Elizabeth? Its the same damn thing. In fact elizabeth does some things worse than Alyx.

If anything, Elizabeth was a carbon copy of Disney princesses. Locked away in a tower? Guarded by a "dragon" (songbird)? Waiting for a man to come save her from the prison and the monster? Runs and hides when combat starts and can't really defend herself? If the man isn't around to help her, she is doomed like the game tells you she is?

I saw Elizabeth to be no different. I found her cliche. Done before.

Opposed to Alyx, who handles herself with and without Gordon Freeman? And has done so way before she met Gordon freeman? She stayed consistent, and valve spent months on her to keep it that way. I found liz to jump around from point to point.

Elizabeth grows as a character, she might have started off locked away in a tower but she soon becomes "herself". Like when,

Spoiler: Bioshock Infinite story spoilers

She smacks Booker around the head when she realizes he tried to trick her, then when she wants to go after Comstock and Booker tries to talk her out of it she also opens a tear through to a Tornado and tells Booker "And what can you do to stop me?"

Damsel in distress? For the first 10 mins sure, after that though shes anything but. She doesnt like fighting or killing but she does it when she has too but generally leaves the violence to Booker and stays out of the way, nothing wrong or sexist with that either. How many of us posting here would really want to tear people in half, set them on fire and shoot them on the face, most of us would be either cowering in fear or trying to hide if that was going on around us.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I was never really that big a fan of Alyx. In this case though she's weakened mostly because... Booker is a real character unlike Gordon Freeman and the interaction between Elizabeth and Booker really makes Bioshock Infinite great.

 

[Storm Dragon]

I like Alyx, but she never tossed me any health packs or ammo.

 

[tautologico]

I love Half-Life 2, I love Alyx and her dynamic with Gordon Freeman. It seems simple, as people saying in this thread that she's the bare minimum, but I'd say it's more complex than that.

However, Elizabeth is a much more developed character, no doubt. I wouldn't like to compare the two to say who's better, but Alyx is really a side character in HL2, while Elizabeth is basically the main character in Bioshock Infinite, or one of the main characters. It's her story as much as Booker's, so it's kinda unfair to compare them, but it still means Elizabeth has had more development, a real character arc, and so on, that Alyx as a side character didn't have (at least until now).

 

[Do4600]

I didn't even realize Alyx Vance was in the running for such a thing, I always thought of her as a supporting character, not a sidekick. Also, Infinite is about Elizabeth, so really the player is the sidekick.

 

[Vigormortis]

*looks at poll results*
So what you're saying is that most escapist forumites prefer a damsel in distress to a tough woman?

May...maybe?

I don't know. Freud might make that assumption, based on the poll results.

'Course, many of those "assumptions" would involve "mother issues", misogyny, and possibly a dash of presumed pedophilia.

But that's Freud for ya.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

On a serious note, it could be the classic hero complex. The desire to play out a fantasy wherein the person gets to save a character from harm, and embolden the courage and resolve of the same character, so that character can become a strong, mostly self-reliant hero themselves.

Or, it could just be some people prefer one over the other. Opinions, differing tastes, and all that.

Like I said before, I don't care either way. Both Elizabeth and Alyx are fantastic characters, in so far as game narratives go. I enjoy them both. However, they're drastically different. Comparing the two in a pointless "who's better?" contest just doesn't make sense.

It's like asking, "Who's the better game character? Commander Shepherd or Pacman?"

Arguments could be made for both, but in the end they're not the same at all.

[sub]My vote would go to Pacman. Just sayin'.[/sub]

 

[skywolfblue]

You know, there was one game a while back that I heard had a good protagonist/companion relationship. It was a year or two ago, enslaveddyssey to the west I think it was called. I never played it, but I heard it gave a good try but tripped over itself.

There is a reason devs don't do it, its hard. And its hard for just about everyone, programmers, level designers, writers, and testers. Infinite didn't get it 100% right either, Liz jumped on a skyline in front of me and slowed me down, and I was killed because of it (though that got a good laugh out of me). She also stood in the door of a gondola and wouldn't move. But those things are few and far between in my experience so far. They took a pretty big gamble with Liz, there are multiple ways this could have turned out bad, like real bad, Colonial Marines bad, but it didn't.

I wouldn't have said this game "set the bar" for companions or good female characters. But the amount of 5/5 9/10 10/10 scores its getting is pretty wowing, and I won't argue since I love it and love Irrational. I think a lot of games are going to be compared to this and The Last of Us

Enslaved is probably worthy of the mention. Trip is pretty awesome as a character, but she's kinda limited as an AI. She does virtually nothing outside of scripted events. Don't get me wrong, the game is heartwarming and I love it, but the AI isn't it's strong suit. Thus I'm not sure she'd exactly fit as "Best NPC sidekick".

It is hard. Which is why I think it's good that people are taking notice of it and giving infinite a lot of praise for it. It's kinda a shame that graphics get advertised so much but games rarely advertise on how human their AI is. Hopefully that will improve in the future.

 

[bafrali]

I like Alyx, but she never tossed me any health packs or ammo.

Well now we know somebody didn't play Episode 2. Get right to it I say.

 

[Robeltu]

Am I the only person in the world who doesn't like half life? Valve are a great company and I love all their other games but half life just doesn't work for me, I find it boring. I really enjoyed Bioshock Infinite and thus I am voting for Elizabeth

 

[MrShowerHead]

Who do I like more? Well that is an easy answer, Alyx.

Don't get me wrong, Elizabeth is a great character, but I kinda hated her. spoilers incometh

Spoiler

First, she starts fake crying to get me to lower my guard, then beats me in the freakin face with a wrench, and then leaves me to a bunch of fanatical rebels. So thanks for that. I would be PISSED if that happens to me. And yet booker is calm and forgiving. Strike one.

Strike two, she gets all high and mighty on her little soapbox, and yet she is responsible for just as much genocide (and more if we take into account future her). And no, future her had a choice.

Strike three, the moment I stop the experiments in commstock house, her first response is to summon an effing tornado on me. Screw you Elizabeth.

Strike four, she drowns Songbird after she begs him to save them and Songbird risks itself to protect her. That is pretty cold hearted, no matter how you slice it.

Strike five, she drowns Booker who sacrifices life and limb to help and protect her. Noticing a theme here, get close to Elizabeth and she drowns your ass.

Overall, Elizabeth is a backstabbing, spoiled, selfish B$%^&. Great character, funny, personable, but also a horrible human being.

Spoiler

1. You know, she did that for a reason? Booker lied to her about leaving Columbia to Paris, instead flying to New York so he could "wipe away his debt"

2. I think I remember her mumbling to herself how she has "caused all this" and how she didn't mean to do any of it, though I might be wrong. I don't think she never denied her part in many things.

3. She did that because she misunderstood Booker's words. Booker said he wouldn't allow her to kill Comstock, but later added that he's going to do it himself. At least that's how I remember how it happened.

4. Booker and Liz lost control of Songbird, it would've most likely killed Booker if Liz didn't do anything. That said, it was a pretty cruel way of handling it.

5. Booker himself allowed all the Elizabeths to drown him, since it was the only way to fix things.

 

[Olas]

I'll go with Alyx, she's a more complex character than people give her credit. She's exceedingly friendly and warm when around characters like Gordon, her father, and Dog, extremely sarcastic around characters like Mossman and Kliner, and utterly ruthless when around enemies. She's highly educated, intelligent, and skilled at combat. She also has a sensitive side; when traumatic events occur around her you can tell she's visibly shaken by them, but she doesn't break down and start sobbing over them because she has determination to see things through.
You can tell she's been hurt a lot by the war with the combine, yet she seems very hopeful and optimistic. In fact being basically the only young person in the series I'd say she basically represents hope for the future of mankind.

Elizabeth seems kinda like a god-child, I don't know, I feel like it's been done before a lot.

 

[knight steel]

........................It's a matter of perspective?
Their no right or wrong answer it's just personal opinion based on what kind of person/characteristic you like better and as such is purely subjective and really pointless arguing about!

And really we all know that Haku from naruto is the best female side kick

 

[Storm Dragon]

I like Alyx, but she never tossed me any health packs or ammo.

Well now we know somebody didn't play Episode 2. Get right to it I say.

I did play Episode 2, but I don't remember her ever doing this.

 

[DataSnake]

I haven't played Infinite yet, but from what I've read she sounds more like Farah from Sands of Time than Alyx.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Alyx Vance never tossed me money.

Seriously though, she's alright, but for some reason I liked and connected with Elizabeth more.

 

[Hugh Wright]

Voted for Liz, but the more I think of it the reason is more to do with Dewitte and Freeman rather than Alyx and Liz, and that is because of the interaction between the pairs rather tan the characters. The interactions between Alyx and Gordon were all one way pretty much, you could and did not respond to what she said or did and she could only respond to your actions (which if you had as much dexterity as i did when I played was often not what I wanted to do), and while it was great for they day pales in comparison to the interactions both in combat, cut scene and just wandering about in BSI.

 

[bafrali]

I like Alyx, but she never tossed me any health packs or ammo.

Well now we know somebody didn't play Episode 2. Get right to it I say.

I did play Episode 2, but I don't remember her ever doing this.

Well there you go. I guess Yathzee was right when he said that innovation meant catching up to Valve nowadays.