Poll: Emma Watson's Speech on Gender Equality

[maninahat]

Why would you pick Emma Watson to be a UN Ambassador? What does an English Lit. degree and being in Harry Potter have to do with the political skill-set required here? I know this is a bit not part of the discussion, but I was pretty surprised to be honest.

Let me answer your question with a question. Off of the top of your head, how many UN ambassadors can you name that aren't celebs? How about last year's Nobel peace prize winners? You probably can't name that many, and neither can most people (in case you can actually name a bunch of ambassadors and Nobels, I apologise in advance for having that little faith. Bear with me anyway though, I am trying to make a point). The reality is that the general public is largely ignorant of such people, and by extension, the causes or societies they represent. When someone high profile and popular gets involved with a cause however, that cause also becomes high profile and popular. That's why you have to use a celeb. They might not be the foremost expert on the subject, but the organisations need them all the same because they are the only people the general public know about and who can relate to, whether they are qualified to represent the subject or not.

 

[Genocidicles]

Nope. Not in the slightest.

When something bad happens I don't want to sit around blubbering, I want to do something to sort it out or to channel it into something constructive.

Plus I cant think of anything that is thought of as a 'feminine' activity that appeals to me in the slightest. They all seem so boring.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I read this in the Metro (UK) and in the same paper they commented on that girls are getting an anti cancer injection that boys dont get. Now theres an argument so that boys get that same injection to protect them from cancer (an figures show men die from cancer more than women - talking about male only cancer like prostrate compared to Breasts cancer). An people are so uptight about women in games being sexist. Its laughable....lets look at real life issues.

For this thread - games dont effect my life. I love women and respect them. An i am not an over muscled dumb arse. An their are millions of men that dont see real women the same as a computer game women. I think its easy to pick on feminist issues in games than feminist issues in real life.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

I nearly split my sides laughing at poll option number four.

I liked this speech. It says a lot of things I have always felt are missed in the general debate about gender equality, namely that men are done just as much a disservice as women by gender stereotypes.

 

[peruvianskys]

I didn't mind the speech - I thought it could have been more radical. More men do need to get involved to help in the struggle for women's liberation, and I'm glad she came out asking for that. But I wish she had been more serious about it and really challenged men. The whole tone of the speech felt a lot like, "Please, pretty please, stop raping us, and I promise there's something in it for you too!" instead of, "You have to fight against this, because if you don't, your humanity is forfeited."

 

[Vault101]

its a shame that some might consider what she said "controversial" I'd say its pretty much par for the coarse

I didn't mind the speech - I thought it could have been more radical. More men do need to get involved to help in the struggle for women's liberation, and I'm glad she came out asking for that. But I wish she had been more serious about it and really challenged men. The whole tone of the speech felt a lot like, "Please, pretty please, stop raping us, and I promise there's something in it for you too!" instead of, "You have to fight against this, because if you don't, your humanity is forfeited."

I thought it was a good speech. But I agree the tone was a bit like you said. I guess she tried to be as polite as possible to not get people going "OMG Femnazi, stop telling us to treat you like a human being when you're a woman!" and that's sad.

Just like she said in the speech, it's such a shame that lately there has been so much hostility against people who want everyone treated as equals.

I'd agree (and see I'm not the only one) I feel there is this is need "pander" to some attitudes that sometimes manifests itself as "I'm not a feminist! I don't hate men!"

it gets to a point where if you have to sugar coat everything for would be detractors you kind of lose your points

 

[Gamer87]

I didn't mind the speech - I thought it could have been more radical. More men do need to get involved to help in the struggle for women's liberation, and I'm glad she came out asking for that. But I wish she had been more serious about it and really challenged men. The whole tone of the speech felt a lot like, "Please, pretty please, stop raping us, and I promise there's something in it for you too!" instead of, "You have to fight against this, because if you don't, your humanity is forfeited."

I thought it was a good speech. But I agree the tone was a bit like you said. I guess she tried to be as polite as possible to not get people going "OMG Femnazi, stop telling us to treat you like a human being when you're a woman!" and that's sad.

Just like she said in the speech, it's such a shame that lately there has been so much hostility against people who want everyone treated as equals.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

The expectation of masculinity and male gender roles doesn't really affect me personally, so I answered no to the poll. I understand however that it's a very real problem for many other people, and I pretty much completely agree with what Emma is saying. I certainly hope such roles and expectations are done away with in the future.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I ... don't think she's going to make me a father against my consent. I don't know in what way she would approach that. Almost certain she's not allowed to kill children either, though if that's on the cards maybe I could use her as a boogieman for the kids who keep kicking footballs into my garden. While famous actors are generally very wealthy, they're usually not allowed to kill other people on a whim.

Well...if she has a singing career and becomes a singer/actress, you might have to worry, they can be a bit dodgy.

Worst of all, I hate the reputation I have by virtue of being a guy. I know that if a girl sees me in a dark alley, her instinct is to see me as a risk, regardless of anything I have actually done. This is because, statistically speaking, it would be ridiculous for her not to see me as a threat. Obviously, in these situations, one of us has it much worse off than the other (what with one living in fear of sexual assault, rape, harassment or violence - the other having to "just" live with being regarded as a possible perpetrator of any of those crimes), but I'd certainly wish this to stop being the case. I suppose it goes to show that most efforts to end the problems women have to face will automatically help men too.

I can't remember who it was, but they very correctly said that rape shouldn't be seen as a woman's problem - it is a man's problem, as a result of them being both the perpetrators, and the ones least likely to take an interest in the issue of stopping it.

To add to that, if you did rape her, she'd get blamed for it. She obviously didn't do enough to stop you, was wearing the wrong clothes, was in a dark alley/outside the house/whatever.

Some people might be charitable enough to say "I'm not blaming her, but" before blaming her.

 

[Daniel Janhagen]

No, not personally, in any meaningful way (more like personal itty bitty annoyances about the clothing available to me versus the clothing available to women and the like - unimportant stuff).
I imagine it is for many, though (and the poll seems to suggest I'm right so far).

 

[Vault101]

No, not personally, in any meaningful way (more like personal itty bitty annoyances about the clothing available to me versus the clothing available to women and the like - unimportant stuff).

I think if you have certain taste it sucks for either side

like hats! and shoes and shirts! why do men get all the hats? they own the world is that not enough!!? [/tounge in cheek]

 

[Riot3000]

No-brainer.
It's mostly a minor nuisance because I'm of the opinion of "screw tradition and what people think I should do, it's not as if they know better".

And it's good and refreshing to see someone approaching the issues this way, with such visibility.

Cosign to this.

As far as I am concerned tradition can kick rocks.

I think this was one of the best speeches about feminism been getting dreary and run ragged recently with these kinds of topics and this was refreshing.

 

[Daniel Janhagen]

No, not personally, in any meaningful way (more like personal itty bitty annoyances about the clothing available to me versus the clothing available to women and the like - unimportant stuff).

I think if you have certain taste it sucks for either side

like hats! and shoes and shirts! why do men get all the hats? they own the world is that not enough!!? [/tounge in cheek]

All the hats? I think not! I agree we got the good ones, though. Stealing the fedora from women was a good move for us, I'll say.
And yes, the wife prefers men's wear, I prefer women's (generally), so yeah, it sucks (again, very mildly sucks - I don't consider this a real problem for me or for her) for everyone.

 

[Fulbert]

Men-I would like to take this opportunity to extend your formal invitation. Gender equality is your issue too.

Because to date, I?ve seen my father?s role as a parent being valued less by society despite my needing his presence as a child as much as my mother's.

I've seen young men suffering from mental illness unable to ask for help for fear it would make them look less "macho"-in fact in the UK suicide is the biggest killer of men between 20-49; eclipsing road accidents, cancer and coronary heart disease. I've seen men made fragile and insecure by a distorted sense of what constitutes male success. Men don?t have the benefits of equality either.

We don't often talk about men being imprisoned by gender stereotypes but I can see that that they are and that when they are free, things will change for women as a natural consequence.

If men don?t have to be aggressive in order to be accepted women won't feel compelled to be submissive. If men don?t have to control, women won?t have to be controlled.

Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong...It is time that we all perceive gender on a spectrum not as two opposing sets of ideals.

If we stop defining each other by what we are not and start defining ourselves by what we are-we can all be freer and this is what HeForShe is about. It's about freedom.

I want men to take up this mantle. So their daughters, sisters and mothers can be free from prejudice but also so that their sons have permission to be vulnerable and human too?reclaim those parts of themselves they abandoned and in doing so be a more true and complete version of themselves.

Emma, you're my hermi heroine. I'm a sensitive physically unfit guy who's been feeling inadequate since school. I've been described as boneless, hypochondriac, weak and unmanly, and perhaps this is why I'm still alone and lonely in my late twenties. I've basically given up on productive life and found my escape in videogames, which had been my safe harbour for years until recently when people came to blame and stereotypize and denigrate me for minding my own business and just enjoying my own little hobby.

I never thought I'd find acceptance from anyone outside the small community of my fellow gamers, so imagine my surprise when I read these words of understanding from none other than Her Emma Watson! The wonderful, beautiful icon of success that is Emma Watson. The woman I never dared to imagine myself as equal to, the woman I thought of as a distant and revered image, the unapproachable Goddess to masturbate to. And now she addresses people like me with a refreshing and eye-opening speech, appeals to us to accept ourselves and be accepted by others.

You are an angel, Emma. You're an angel of equality and acceptance. Tell me, Emma, would you date a guy like me?

Be honest.

 

[Eddie the head]

Nah I'm pretty sure gender roles exist because of biology, not social pressure.

I think that's kind of a false dichotomy. It's both and the same thing and it's hugely complex.

 

[Kameburger]

I think her speech was all right, nothing particularly inspirational or offensive for me. I agree with the bit about feminism not being a women only issue, however, I do feel some sort of weird implication in her speech that men shouldn't feel ashamed to act less like men and in saying that she is telling you that men who behave like "men" are causing this problem. I don't like the idea of being a proponent of social issues, if only because I think you have to some how implicitly find a bad guy to defeat but at the same time, it is very difficult to define when you've hit your target or if there even is a target that would satisfy your goal.

What would female equality really mean? I'm still not quite sure what the definition is in clear sense. Equal pay? Also I know what that means in general but the more you narrow these things down, the more questions arise. I know that being a man has probably helped me in a very academic sense (meaning that I have a dry factual understanding of this concept and accept that I am included) but how do I quantify that? To say that a person with my exact life background but also happened to be female would not have the same opportunities as me, is also fair, but in what way? It's when this discussion begins that the complications begin to arise. I'm not saying that there is no argument, but more so that it's such an "if - than " argument that it is going to get messy, and we are left to make a lot of assumptions about what the world would be like if things were different.

To stop harassment or even violence towards women, I absolutely think that this is a top priority, but there is a lot of unclear messaging concerning what step I would need to take.

What I want to know and what I've always wanted to know and still have never once gotten a clear answer on, is: what can I do to help?
What role can I actually play in this struggle? I don't harass women, I don't act violently toward women, and I am not in a position to pay anyone, but if I had such power, I like to think that I'd be fair. So when Emma Watson says I don't have to live in the confinement of my manhood I still don't know what she's talking about. I think she's getting toward the right idea, but what is that supposed to mean for me?

Also, I'm becoming increasingly scared that the answer to my questions is that the mentality of humanity nearly as a whole needs to change, an almost evolutionary shift in the way we as a species perceives, and the mode through which this perception is translated into reality. I'm scared of this because I don't think we'll see it in my life time.

 

[Thaluikhain]

So when Emma Watson says I don't have to live in the confinement of my manhood I still don't know what she's talking about. I think she's getting toward the right idea, but what is that supposed to mean for me?

For example, if you want to wear pink and do ballet, that should be ok. There's no reason why a man shouldn't be allowed to do that.

What I want to know and what I've always wanted to know and still have never once gotten a clear answer on, is: what can I do to help?
What role can I actually play in this struggle? I don't harass women, I don't act violently toward women, and I am not in a position to pay anyone, but if I had such power, I like to think that I'd be fair.

That is a difficult question, with no simple answer.

But, I note you said "I like to think that I'd be fair", rather than "I'd be fair". That's a very important distinction. Many, many people are convinced that they are good people, and it is everyone else that's the problem. The people that say "I'm not sexist, but" and then say something sexist often seem to think they are totally free of sexism. They know sexism is wrong, they consider themselves to be a good person, so they can never say or do anything sexist.

Also, as well as not being sexist yourself, it's important to call others out on it. Which, of course, is never fun. You're sitting round socially with a bunch of mates, someone says something wrong, and nobody mentions it. If you speak up, you'll be the one "causing the problem", not the person whose fault it is. But if you keep quiet, you are saying that it's ok to say stuff like that, that it's not something you believe in enough to speak out about it.

But, mostly it's not remotely that simple, it's lots of attitudes, judgements that we make without knowing about it. We all know about the dangers of assumptions, but most of the time we make assumptions because we never realised that things could actually be another way. Very, very hard to do anything about that.

 

[Souplex]

A real man knows both which fork to use for the salad, and which fork to use to pluck out the eyeball of his enemies.
In both cases it's the one on the outside with the shorter stronger tines.

 

[Kameburger]

So when Emma Watson says I don't have to live in the confinement of my manhood I still don't know what she's talking about. I think she's getting toward the right idea, but what is that supposed to mean for me?

For example, if you want to wear pink and do ballet, that should be ok. There's no reason why a man shouldn't be allowed to do that.

What I want to know and what I've always wanted to know and still have never once gotten a clear answer on, is: what can I do to help?
What role can I actually play in this struggle? I don't harass women, I don't act violently toward women, and I am not in a position to pay anyone, but if I had such power, I like to think that I'd be fair.

That is a difficult question, with no simple answer.

But, I note you said "I like to think that I'd be fair", rather than "I'd be fair". That's a very important distinction. Many, many people are convinced that they are good people, and it is everyone else that's the problem. The people that say "I'm not sexist, but" and then say something sexist often seem to think they are totally free of sexism. They know sexism is wrong, they consider themselves to be a good person, so they can never say or do anything sexist.

Also, as well as not being sexist yourself, it's important to call others out on it. Which, of course, is never fun. You're sitting round socially with a bunch of mates, someone says something wrong, and nobody mentions it. If you speak up, you'll be the one "causing the problem", not the person whose fault it is. But if you keep quiet, you are saying that it's ok to say stuff like that, that it's not something you believe in enough to speak out about it.

But, mostly it's not remotely that simple, it's lots of attitudes, judgements that we make without knowing about it. We all know about the dangers of assumptions, but most of the time we make assumptions because we never realised that things could actually be another way. Very, very hard to do anything about that.

I appreciate your taking the time to respond. I certainly agree with you, and I think there are a lot of people who would like to say that they are not a part of the problem and never could be, but I'm fully aware that I could be. After all I've never been uncomfortable with my gender role in society, but I absolutely know people that were. I can't say I'm perfect, and I would always like to improve my self, but that perhaps makes me feel more uncomfortable. Feminism takes some many forms and different versions of feminism may have completely opposite beliefs. I don't quite agree with every point that's being made, and in a way as time goes on I feel more and more lost.

So of course, I would never expect these things to be simple, but I think that one of the discussions that needs to be had (and I realize this is my opinion but stay with me), is what exactly the goal is in all of this. What does equality really mean? What would complete victory feel like if we ever did attain it? Because if we just keep doing good things because they feel good, I feel we might set things up to be worse for us in the long run.

I think my metaphor for this is what happened when we replaced the type writer. At the time, the personal computer and word processor that allowed you to edit things before you printed them, was thought to save paper because never again would you have to retype a whole page because you made small mistakes. So we created a much faster process that would help us save paper and be environmentally friendly. What happened in reality was the opposite. Now how many trees does the average student by him or her self, down through out their student years? How many times do we print out documents over and over and over just to fix small punctuation errors.

I mean I'm not arguing that the printer should not have been invented, or that feminism will ultimately produce bad results, my point is merely that we should think of what the problem is and don't fix symptoms but rather find and locate what's going on and try to tackle the problem. And I guess I feel like we don't do enough of that.

I mean even in the case of Anita Sarkeesian (I hate that I'm bringing this up again but she's the most prominent figure in gaming), she makes the point that there a lot of bad tropes in video games, a premise which I don't disagree with, but leaves the causes and solutions of those problems open ended. In a way it's all the important parts. I know I'm venturing into too much metaphor territory here, but if you tell someone who is heavy set that the big mac they love so much is bad for them, they've heard this before, and hearing it again is frustrating because it doesn't address any of that person's problems. Why is that burger bad for them? What can they eat instead of that burger? Is it ok to eat that burger sometimes or is it never ok? If you don't tell him any of those things than you might be having the same conversation with him the very next date when you see him with a Whopper in his hands because he has no basis to know that's not a better alternative.

Please let me know if what I'm saying is not ok, I really just want to understand as much as possible.

 

[ElMinotoro]

snip

You are a beautiful human being and I wish more people in the world would follow your example in regards to self reflection.