Poll: Emma Watson's Speech on Gender Equality

[mitchell271]

I'm not really seeing why people are praising Emma Watsons speech so much. She, and the organization the speech is for, is basically going "I can see that men are hurting, but you know what would be really great? If you'd all man up and focus on fixing women's problems."

You completely missed the point. Her point is that there are prejudices against men as well, and that they're equally as stupid as the prejudices against women! There's literally no valid argument for keeping these outdates and moronic expectations when we should just let people do what they want to do.

 

[Vigormortis]

THREAD REQUEST: Keep the any debate civil. First mention of "SJW" earns 20 crotch punches.

Come on, Guppy! You can't request civility while simultaneously threatening scrotal-centric violence. It's just...uncouth!

Next time just promise to give everyone puppies, but threaten to take away the puppies from those who use the term.

Spoiler: Because, really, who wants to lose one of these?

 

[Nion]

You completely missed the point. Her point is that there are prejudices against men as well, and that they're equally as stupid as the prejudices against women! There's literally no valid argument for keeping these outdates and moronic expectations when we should just let people do what they want to do.

And she's making this point to launch a campaign that seeks to "bring together one half of humanity in support of the other of humanity". This is explicitly not a campaign that's going to support any men, help any men or fix any problems faced by men. It's a call for men to support women, but not the other way around.

EDIT: Though I am really glad that these kinds of discussions are happening as a result. Even if I'm really skeptical of the HeForShe campaign, the speech seems to be having some really positive results outside of that.

 

[visiblenoise]

I look at all the typically "masculine" things and only take away the spirit of it all, which I feel was the original intention (and in all my experiences, all that mature people expect). And I don't find that imprisoning, I find it to be an ideal to work toward. Hell, women should also be working toward it. If you're deficient in one respect (maybe you can't drink as much as someone), big deal! You can still earn respect in other ways (if you even care about that sort of thing...and it's manly to not care).

Perhaps I have a skewed perception of what "expectations of masculinity" entail. But I also feel that if you're dealing with crap that is really getting you down, despite all your attempts to be "manly" and not care, you're dealing with some kind of bullying that really has nothing to do with masculinity. And I think that's a slightly different problem.

 

[maninahat]

Definitely yes. I see the huge amount of damage it does first hand. For one thing, it breeds a horrible office culture in which "manning up" and the importance of machismo means working as many hours as possible so you can brag about it. Thus people - men especially - are encouraged to keep up with a stupid competition that results in them sacrificing their home life and proper R & R, and exhausting themselves to the point of them causing serious tiredness related mishaps. I work in a hospital, by the way.

I dislike the responsibilities and the level of authority I am expected to shoulder as a guy, though I am pleased to see this is already starting to change; it was my wife who asked me out (she is the second girlfriend of mine to do so), she works and she pays her share of everything. I dislike how my bearing as a man is based on work related achievement or wealth.

Worst of all, I hate the reputation I have by virtue of being a guy. I know that if a girl sees me in a dark alley, her instinct is to see me as a risk, regardless of anything I have actually done. This is because, statistically speaking, it would be ridiculous for her not to see me as a threat. Obviously, in these situations, one of us has it much worse off than the other (what with one living in fear of sexual assault, rape, harassment or violence - the other having to "just" live with being regarded as a possible perpetrator of any of those crimes), but I'd certainly wish this to stop being the case. I suppose it goes to show that most efforts to end the problems women have to face will automatically help men too.

I can't remember who it was, but they very correctly said that rape shouldn't be seen as a woman's problem - it is a man's problem, as a result of them being both the perpetrators, and the ones least likely to take an interest in the issue of stopping it.

 

[maninahat]

Why would you pick Emma Watson to be a UN Ambassador? What does an English Lit. degree and being in Harry Potter have to do with the political skill-set required here? I know this is a bit not part of the discussion, but I was pretty surprised to be honest.

Let me answer your question with a question. Off of the top of your head, how many UN ambassadors can you name that aren't celebs? How about last year's Nobel peace prize winners? You probably can't name that many, and neither can most people (in case you can actually name a bunch of ambassadors and Nobels, I apologise in advance for having that little faith. Bear with me anyway though, I am trying to make a point). The reality is that the general public is largely ignorant of such people, and by extension, the causes or societies they represent. When someone high profile and popular gets involved with a cause however, that cause also becomes high profile and popular. That's why you have to use a celeb. They might not be the foremost expert on the subject, but the organisations need them all the same because they are the only people the general public know about and who can relate to, whether they are qualified to represent the subject or not.

 

[Genocidicles]

Nope. Not in the slightest.

When something bad happens I don't want to sit around blubbering, I want to do something to sort it out or to channel it into something constructive.

Plus I cant think of anything that is thought of as a 'feminine' activity that appeals to me in the slightest. They all seem so boring.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I read this in the Metro (UK) and in the same paper they commented on that girls are getting an anti cancer injection that boys dont get. Now theres an argument so that boys get that same injection to protect them from cancer (an figures show men die from cancer more than women - talking about male only cancer like prostrate compared to Breasts cancer). An people are so uptight about women in games being sexist. Its laughable....lets look at real life issues.

For this thread - games dont effect my life. I love women and respect them. An i am not an over muscled dumb arse. An their are millions of men that dont see real women the same as a computer game women. I think its easy to pick on feminist issues in games than feminist issues in real life.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

I nearly split my sides laughing at poll option number four.

I liked this speech. It says a lot of things I have always felt are missed in the general debate about gender equality, namely that men are done just as much a disservice as women by gender stereotypes.

 

[peruvianskys]

I didn't mind the speech - I thought it could have been more radical. More men do need to get involved to help in the struggle for women's liberation, and I'm glad she came out asking for that. But I wish she had been more serious about it and really challenged men. The whole tone of the speech felt a lot like, "Please, pretty please, stop raping us, and I promise there's something in it for you too!" instead of, "You have to fight against this, because if you don't, your humanity is forfeited."

 

[Vault101]

its a shame that some might consider what she said "controversial" I'd say its pretty much par for the coarse

I didn't mind the speech - I thought it could have been more radical. More men do need to get involved to help in the struggle for women's liberation, and I'm glad she came out asking for that. But I wish she had been more serious about it and really challenged men. The whole tone of the speech felt a lot like, "Please, pretty please, stop raping us, and I promise there's something in it for you too!" instead of, "You have to fight against this, because if you don't, your humanity is forfeited."

I thought it was a good speech. But I agree the tone was a bit like you said. I guess she tried to be as polite as possible to not get people going "OMG Femnazi, stop telling us to treat you like a human being when you're a woman!" and that's sad.

Just like she said in the speech, it's such a shame that lately there has been so much hostility against people who want everyone treated as equals.

I'd agree (and see I'm not the only one) I feel there is this is need "pander" to some attitudes that sometimes manifests itself as "I'm not a feminist! I don't hate men!"

it gets to a point where if you have to sugar coat everything for would be detractors you kind of lose your points

 

[Gamer87]

I didn't mind the speech - I thought it could have been more radical. More men do need to get involved to help in the struggle for women's liberation, and I'm glad she came out asking for that. But I wish she had been more serious about it and really challenged men. The whole tone of the speech felt a lot like, "Please, pretty please, stop raping us, and I promise there's something in it for you too!" instead of, "You have to fight against this, because if you don't, your humanity is forfeited."

I thought it was a good speech. But I agree the tone was a bit like you said. I guess she tried to be as polite as possible to not get people going "OMG Femnazi, stop telling us to treat you like a human being when you're a woman!" and that's sad.

Just like she said in the speech, it's such a shame that lately there has been so much hostility against people who want everyone treated as equals.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

The expectation of masculinity and male gender roles doesn't really affect me personally, so I answered no to the poll. I understand however that it's a very real problem for many other people, and I pretty much completely agree with what Emma is saying. I certainly hope such roles and expectations are done away with in the future.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I ... don't think she's going to make me a father against my consent. I don't know in what way she would approach that. Almost certain she's not allowed to kill children either, though if that's on the cards maybe I could use her as a boogieman for the kids who keep kicking footballs into my garden. While famous actors are generally very wealthy, they're usually not allowed to kill other people on a whim.

Well...if she has a singing career and becomes a singer/actress, you might have to worry, they can be a bit dodgy.

Worst of all, I hate the reputation I have by virtue of being a guy. I know that if a girl sees me in a dark alley, her instinct is to see me as a risk, regardless of anything I have actually done. This is because, statistically speaking, it would be ridiculous for her not to see me as a threat. Obviously, in these situations, one of us has it much worse off than the other (what with one living in fear of sexual assault, rape, harassment or violence - the other having to "just" live with being regarded as a possible perpetrator of any of those crimes), but I'd certainly wish this to stop being the case. I suppose it goes to show that most efforts to end the problems women have to face will automatically help men too.

I can't remember who it was, but they very correctly said that rape shouldn't be seen as a woman's problem - it is a man's problem, as a result of them being both the perpetrators, and the ones least likely to take an interest in the issue of stopping it.

To add to that, if you did rape her, she'd get blamed for it. She obviously didn't do enough to stop you, was wearing the wrong clothes, was in a dark alley/outside the house/whatever.

Some people might be charitable enough to say "I'm not blaming her, but" before blaming her.

 

[Daniel Janhagen]

No, not personally, in any meaningful way (more like personal itty bitty annoyances about the clothing available to me versus the clothing available to women and the like - unimportant stuff).
I imagine it is for many, though (and the poll seems to suggest I'm right so far).

 

[Vault101]

No, not personally, in any meaningful way (more like personal itty bitty annoyances about the clothing available to me versus the clothing available to women and the like - unimportant stuff).

I think if you have certain taste it sucks for either side

like hats! and shoes and shirts! why do men get all the hats? they own the world is that not enough!!? [/tounge in cheek]

 

[Riot3000]

No-brainer.
It's mostly a minor nuisance because I'm of the opinion of "screw tradition and what people think I should do, it's not as if they know better".

And it's good and refreshing to see someone approaching the issues this way, with such visibility.

Cosign to this.

As far as I am concerned tradition can kick rocks.

I think this was one of the best speeches about feminism been getting dreary and run ragged recently with these kinds of topics and this was refreshing.

 

[Daniel Janhagen]

No, not personally, in any meaningful way (more like personal itty bitty annoyances about the clothing available to me versus the clothing available to women and the like - unimportant stuff).

I think if you have certain taste it sucks for either side

like hats! and shoes and shirts! why do men get all the hats? they own the world is that not enough!!? [/tounge in cheek]

All the hats? I think not! I agree we got the good ones, though. Stealing the fedora from women was a good move for us, I'll say.
And yes, the wife prefers men's wear, I prefer women's (generally), so yeah, it sucks (again, very mildly sucks - I don't consider this a real problem for me or for her) for everyone.

 

[Fulbert]

Men-I would like to take this opportunity to extend your formal invitation. Gender equality is your issue too.

Because to date, I?ve seen my father?s role as a parent being valued less by society despite my needing his presence as a child as much as my mother's.

I've seen young men suffering from mental illness unable to ask for help for fear it would make them look less "macho"-in fact in the UK suicide is the biggest killer of men between 20-49; eclipsing road accidents, cancer and coronary heart disease. I've seen men made fragile and insecure by a distorted sense of what constitutes male success. Men don?t have the benefits of equality either.

We don't often talk about men being imprisoned by gender stereotypes but I can see that that they are and that when they are free, things will change for women as a natural consequence.

If men don?t have to be aggressive in order to be accepted women won't feel compelled to be submissive. If men don?t have to control, women won?t have to be controlled.

Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong...It is time that we all perceive gender on a spectrum not as two opposing sets of ideals.

If we stop defining each other by what we are not and start defining ourselves by what we are-we can all be freer and this is what HeForShe is about. It's about freedom.

I want men to take up this mantle. So their daughters, sisters and mothers can be free from prejudice but also so that their sons have permission to be vulnerable and human too?reclaim those parts of themselves they abandoned and in doing so be a more true and complete version of themselves.

Emma, you're my hermi heroine. I'm a sensitive physically unfit guy who's been feeling inadequate since school. I've been described as boneless, hypochondriac, weak and unmanly, and perhaps this is why I'm still alone and lonely in my late twenties. I've basically given up on productive life and found my escape in videogames, which had been my safe harbour for years until recently when people came to blame and stereotypize and denigrate me for minding my own business and just enjoying my own little hobby.

I never thought I'd find acceptance from anyone outside the small community of my fellow gamers, so imagine my surprise when I read these words of understanding from none other than Her Emma Watson! The wonderful, beautiful icon of success that is Emma Watson. The woman I never dared to imagine myself as equal to, the woman I thought of as a distant and revered image, the unapproachable Goddess to masturbate to. And now she addresses people like me with a refreshing and eye-opening speech, appeals to us to accept ourselves and be accepted by others.

You are an angel, Emma. You're an angel of equality and acceptance. Tell me, Emma, would you date a guy like me?

Be honest.