Kameburger said:
In this case I think there can absolutely be bad or less productive decisions that could be reached here. I've never been personally attached to the idea of doing something automatically trumping nothing. Not say that we should do nothing, but more so that consequences can be negative.
Certainly, that can be a concern, though I'm not seeing much of that as a problem as the moment.
Well, you get lots of presumably well meaning people trying to address rape as something it's up to victims to prevent, which is going about it the wrong way, but that is widely condemned by feminists.
Kameburger said:
Most of humanity is aware that there are women out there, and that woman are being treated differently, and will hold some sort of opinion on the issue.
Strongly disagree there. You constantly have people claiming that we are in a post-feminist society, that sexism doesn't exist, or if it does, it's all against men.
Alternatively, people believing in sexism in a vague nebulous way, but who would deny any given example.
On a related note, I'd imagine for many gamers, Sarkeesian was the first example of a woman being inundated by rape threats as a response to talking about feminism on the net, and yet this happens to any feminist of note. People just aren't aware of it.
Kameburger said:
It's for this reason that I am of the opinion the language we use and the approach itself needs to change fundamentally. I think Emma Watson is absolutely right that a lot of men feel alienated by the term Feminism, and that they feel antagonized. I think that is separate from feeling imprisoned by masculinity, but I am sure some people do feel that way and I wouldn't refute it.
This is an idea which comes up a lot, and IMHO, is rather missing the point.
The language isn't the problem, people are unhappy with the content. If you are comfortable with the status quo and don't want to change, it doesn't matter what the people challenging the status quo call themselves, you will be unhappy with them. And what they call themselves will become a label they feel threatened by.
By way of comparison, the way the euphemism treadmill works in regards to the mentally handicapped. Every so often, people change the terminology, because the official terms become insulting, simply because of who they are used for. "Retarded" becomes an insult, so you replace it with "special needs", which becomes an insult. You can do that as many times as you want, as long as the hostility towards the people in question is there, the name will become a slur.
(This is something many feminists had written about at great length, you might want to wander through google on this one.)
Kameburger said:
I guess I understand this idea that feminists are still ironing out these issues among themselves. But it's a lot to wrestle with if you don't keep up with it regularly, but I also don't like to be approached constantly with new and drastically different view points that I must adopt. So now you're telling me Nintendo is sexist for Starfox? (Sarkeesian pointed this out in a video) This is so weird for me because it's such a random assertion to just accept. I have a lot of memories tied to that game, and a lot of those decisions were made behind closed doors 8000 miles away from where I grew up. It's like having someone go through my child hood room and saying "this is sexist that is sexist, this is all sexist. All your stuff has had a notable negative impact on my life." I personally could never rationalize harassing anyone for thinking this or threaten them or what ever, that part is deplorable, but I think these people also have deeper issues. But on the other hand if you are going to tell me that I am a lifetime consumer of something that really hurts you, than it might be nice to give me an idea of how I'm supposed to cope with it all. Sure I would like to help but the best I can do is tell you how I feel, and inform you of my reaction right?
Well, you don't have to adopt, or agree with, every feminist on the net or anything. It's something to keep an open mind about, and there is a lot of useful information, however.
In regards to that particular example, though, was the complaint that it was sexist, or that it has sexist elements? Not quite the same thing.
Also, there's no reason you can't like things that have problematic elements. For example, I quite like the Lord of the Rings movies, which are about a bunch of rich, white, straight guys who go off and fight brown people and monsters with working class accents. There are issues there, and I recognise them. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the movies...if you were to only consume stuff that was perfect, you'd run out very quickly.
However, it is important to recognise it. The normal, instinctive response is to say "No, I like this, stop attacking my childhood", which really isn't helpful.
