Well good thing I'm wearing my titanium jock cup today.BloatedGuppy said:Didn't see a topic on this, thought it was worth discussing. Apparently Hermione Granger, not satisfied with crusading solely on behalf of House Elves, has now been appointed a UN Woman's Ambassador.
Transcript of her speech here:
http://www.unwomen.org/en/news/stories/2014/9/emma-watson-gender-equality-is-your-issue-too
I thought I would touch on one part in particular, as this forum is primarily male.
So, poll question and discussion...do you feel that traditional definitions and expectations of masculinity are confining for you? Do you feel forced to assume roles that run against your nature? Would you be interested in seeing a gradual cultural tear-down of the "Masculine ideal" in the same way feminism tried to tear down antiquated notions of femininity and expand the parameters of how they could express themselves? Or are you happy with the status quo? Do you not want to lose traditional definitions of manliness and manhood? Do you think there is value in expressing sexual dimorphism socially?Men-I would like to take this opportunity to extend your formal invitation. Gender equality is your issue too.
Because to date, I?ve seen my father?s role as a parent being valued less by society despite my needing his presence as a child as much as my mother's.
I've seen young men suffering from mental illness unable to ask for help for fear it would make them look less "macho"-in fact in the UK suicide is the biggest killer of men between 20-49; eclipsing road accidents, cancer and coronary heart disease. I've seen men made fragile and insecure by a distorted sense of what constitutes male success. Men don?t have the benefits of equality either.
We don't often talk about men being imprisoned by gender stereotypes but I can see that that they are and that when they are free, things will change for women as a natural consequence.
If men don?t have to be aggressive in order to be accepted women won't feel compelled to be submissive. If men don?t have to control, women won?t have to be controlled.
Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong...It is time that we all perceive gender on a spectrum not as two opposing sets of ideals.
If we stop defining each other by what we are not and start defining ourselves by what we are-we can all be freer and this is what HeForShe is about. It's about freedom.
I want men to take up this mantle. So their daughters, sisters and mothers can be free from prejudice but also so that their sons have permission to be vulnerable and human too?reclaim those parts of themselves they abandoned and in doing so be a more true and complete version of themselves.
THREAD REQUEST: Keep the any debate civil. First mention of "SJW" earns 20 crotch punches.
The problem with feminism is that it rapidly goes from crusading for equality, to demanding to be given things, rather than simply the opportunity to earn them. Feminism by and large made sense when it was an issue of saying "well if a woman meets the requirements to do this job, why can't she do it?" to demands that jobs be changed to have lower standards so women could do them, to affirmative action programs in ensuring so many women were in "meaningful" leadership positions, to most currently round about arguments that men should basically stop being men. The bottom line is that yeah, guys have their own baggage of expectations to carry, and it's not a bed of roses, the expectations of bring strong, aggressive, and running point to do things can be a burden at times but it's also how a lot of things can get done. It's seductive to hear someone say "well, wouldn't it be nice to put down those gender expectations?", but in practice at the end of the day such arguments tend to be made mostly in terms of social assertiveness and places at the high end of society. Women as a general rule are not lining up to have their fair representation in menial labor among the ditch diggers, garbage men, and grunt janitorial workers (which is a bit different than house keeping or stewarding), unless of course money and prestige goes along with the job, such as an area where the municipal trash collectors actually have a pretty good deal going as far as pay and benefits, you'd be shocked at how much money garbage men and dog catchers can actually make in some places.
The way that I see it is that as time goes on the whole "Feminism" thing needs to find reasons to sustain itself, it's long since established it's stated goals, even the major one like the vote, now it's all about pushing the fabric of society, and really as time goes on you see more and more radicals appearing because there are less legitimate positions to hold, as really the only way to move forward becomes more about taking things away from men, as opposed to simply being given the right to compete if you happen to be there for a job or position with the right qualifications.
I'll also say that I think the decay of feminism has a lot to do with the fact that people like Emma Watson, Anita Sarkessian, and others are kind of cowardly at the end of the day. Part of the reason you see issues like this pushed is because they can get away with it in the first world where women are already pretty fairly represented (the genders are ?NOT the same and not equal in all things, like it or not, men and women are different). I mean Anita Sarkeesian can be a trouble maker and the most she has to worry about is people talking smack at her. When you consider the gender issues in China, India, The Middle East, etc... (China and India both independently make up 1/3rd of the human race, so that's 2/3rds right there) it's really kind of silly. Your vocal feminists pretty much decide to focus on the small portion of the third of the human race where they have had victories rather than actually taking their message where it could still do some actual good as opposed to getting into increasingly ambigious territory. Of course if Anita for example decided to move to one of those countries and try and do her "Feminist Frequency" thing on real issues, she'd run a risk of actually being raped, or guest starring in an IS-sponsored snuff flick alongside the other recent victims. Emma Watson isn't as bad yet, and I agree with her on some points, but she is sort of making a joke out of her whole UN appointment when her speech largely addresses issues from a first world perspective, and seemingly aimed at the first world status quo. As she's operating at a UN level she should be butting heads with China, India, The Middle East, and other nations and going overseas into the hotbeds of these problems to shake things up, presumably under the aegis and protection of the UN, in some respects that makes her an even bigger coward than Anita because you'd at least expect as an Ambassador in cases like that (doing her job) she'd have an entourage and body guard. She has UN backing, and as much press as this is getting, she is doing pretty much nothing with it. Of course that might be why she was selected, the UN is big on doing nothing, if they actually had someone in this position going into these countries and stirring things up and pushing for reforms under UN authority it would be too much like doing it's job. Next time some woman gets stoned in The Middle East ask yourself where Emma Watson was during the whole thing, and then remember this speech and where she's decided to turn her eyes instead because the real problems seem to be too big for her.
That said, I will also say that the people in support of this entire perspective seem to largely be SJWs (I hear the clanging on my jock guard already) because this is how they get attention, it's much easier for them to pick on first world issues and just make some sympathetic questions when things get too far out of that arena. You see more of these people flocking to the defense of say Anita Sarkeesian than say going after gender inequality in The Middle East. Of course at the end of the day though most SJWs can't get too international in their rants, because when you follow that through it all of a sudden turns into actually pushing to DO something tangible, and that rapidly turns away from the whole "peace at any price" attitudes that tend to go along with the rest of the philosophy. Basically SJWs tend to stand for what they can get away with QQing about in the first world no matter how hypocritical it makes them sound.
In closing I'll also say that the modern feminist movement has also lost it's way which is part of the entire problem. They rapidly tend to forget about how first (or was it second) wave feminism was heavily about sexuality and women pushing for their right to be sexy, nude, etc... and not find any shame in that. That came first largely because it formed a foundation the rest of this was supposed to be built on. Right now one of the big feminist issues is how people have been leaking nude and sexually oriented pictures of all these "very serious" women all over the internets. Indeed Emma has been threatened with this herself (and let's be honest she's been a model in addition to an actress at this point so chances are nudes of her probably exist somewhere in portfolios even if they weren't personal ones for a boyfriend). The bottom line is that the whole point of the original baseline was to make it so this kind of thing wouldn't work. The way I see it is that if someone can get your goat by putting up pictures of you naked or having sex, then you really shouldn't be talking about feminism as a big part of the foundation was to remove the negative connotations from that kind of thing. This is also why a lot of "feminists" like Anita need to dance the two-step around things like sexy women in artwork and the like, and fail to acknowledge how women create stuff like this themselves. Basically the idea is to be at peace with it.
That's my thoughts at any rate. I think Emma is probably well intentioned, but I think she's doing it wrong. I also dispute the wisdom of having put her there because supposedly she had problems in school being able to deal with the pressure of being high profile due to her modeling, and fame over the Harry Potter movies. Of course again, that could be the entire point of the UN giving her this position. She's going to sit around and QQ at countries like the US and UK and otherwise ignore the greater issues afflicting the majority of humanity, allowing the UN to have a Women's rights ambassador, but one that won't actually get the UN involved in anything touchy. Of course then again I have no idea what kinds of resources this position has (I didn't hear it called "honorary" though it might be, so I'm guessing it's an actual appointment). I'd find it hilarious, if oddly appropriate, if we say have UN peacekeepers hitting the Middle East harder than the USA ever did specifically to force gender equality on the cultures and governments. Having Hermione air dropping a battalion of Royal Marine Commandoes on the next tribe that tries to stone a girl for something like not marrying her rapist would just be too awesome for reality.