Poll: Father in rural Germany finds his young son likes to wear dresses; does the same to show solidarity.

[PH3NOmenon]

Poor kid.


Playgrounds are going to rip him to shreds. Most companies won't even consider hiring him. Not to mention that when he gets married, he'll need to buy TWO wedding dresses and those things are incredibly expensive...

This should technically be awesome, but I can't help but fear that eventually the kid is going to wish his dad had put a stop to it when he was young enough to not know any better.

 

[D Moness]

Emotionally weak in the sense of having negative emotions such as sadness. Anger is an appropriate emotion that doesn't fall under the umbrella of emotional weakness.

Since when does anger fall under the "positive" emotion?
Seeing as you think negative emotions making you emotionally weak and according to yourself you are not weak so according to you anger is a positive emotion.

In my opinion anger is an even more negative emotion then sadness. You are indeed quick to anger so emotionally weak and unstable in my opinion.

 

[MetalMagpie]

Something my mum said once really made me think about stuff like this.

My mum's sister (my aunt) is a lesbian. She's been with her partner since before I was born, and I've always referred to both of them as "auntie". My mum's parents (whilst initially a little shocked) have never had a problem with their daughter's sexuality.

When I was a teenager, I asked my mum once how she would feel if I came out as a lesbian as well. She thought for a moment then said, "I would feel sad. I know the world has changed since my sister was your age, but it hasn't changed enough. It would upset me thinking that you would have to go through everything she went through. But don't think for one second that I wouldn't want you to tell me, or that I wouldn't give you all the support I could."

It's the easiest thing in the world (or at least it should be) to accept your child for who they are. But that doesn't mean the rest of the world will.

In this exact case, I'd let the kid wear dresses if he wants to. There's plenty of time to talk seriously about usually-gender-specific clothing later on. (And it might turn out to be just a phase anyway.)

 

[Simonism451]

Emotionally weak in the sense of having negative emotions such as sadness. Anger is an appropriate emotion that doesn't fall under the umbrella of emotional weakness.

Since when does anger fall under the "positive" emotion?
Seeing as you think negative emotions making you emotionally weak and according to yourself you are not weak so according to you anger is a positive emotion.

In my opinion anger is an even more negative emotion then sadness. You are indeed quick to anger so emotionally weak and unstable in my opinion.

No, don't you understand, the hate makes him stronger. Makes him manlier. Hate is the manliest emotion ever. Aside from love that is, of course:

HUAH!

I just came a little.

Edit: Alternatively, if you can speak german:

 

[D Moness]

No, don't you understand, the hate makes him stronger. Makes him manlier. Hate is the manliest emotion ever. Aside from love that is, of course:

HUAH!

I just came a little.

lol, every time he posts i get more and more a caveman vibe from the post. "Me man me strong"

Oh wait some caveman can be fun

 

[tmande2nd]

Good on him.

Screw following society and its bland ideals of what you can and cant wear.
Now if the kid went around naked? Uhm...yeah please dont do that.

I mean that is a crime.
Wearing a dress is not.

Hell I wish my dad was that supportive of me.

 

[Sebass]

Hey Jeff, have you ever been to a psychiatrist? For your own personal benefit, I suggest you stay away from them because I'm pretty certain they'll have you locked up. I'm not sure what you have but it's remarkably similar to antisocial personality disorder (aka a psychopath) with narcissistic tendencies.

 

[Schadrach]

Quite frankly boys shouldn't wear dresses.

Why?

At that age he probably doesn't fully understand what he is doing but if he continues those habits he's going to get alot of shit for it.

But the point is that he shouldn't get shit for it. There's no rational reason why boys or men shouldn't be allowed to wear dresses. Arbitrary societal norms with no basis in rationality should be fought. But moreover, how much harm will it really do? The boy will likely start to realize very quickly that he's the only, or one of the only, little boys who wears a dress and either stop of his own volition or be teased one day and learn the valuable lesson that people are assholes.

And I don't find the idea that kids will tease him to be a valid reason to force him to stop now when it hasn't been an issue. The reality is that kids can and will tease for any reason. Doesn't matter if you're wearing a dress. Doesn't even matter if you did something wrong or made the mistake of not fitting in. Odds are every kid has been teased at some point by some other kid.

All of this.

Also, for those who see some kind of intrinsic problem with boys wearing dresses, it wasn't *that* long ago that children in general wore dresses (for example FDR did), for entirely practical reasons. Loose fitting garments with an open bottom allow for a broader period of growth before the clothing is outgrown -- put simply, you put a kid in a dress that goes to his/her ankle, and replace it once it's over the knee. Cheap to make, can be worn for a long time despite the great deal of growth children go through, relatively comfortable...why the hell did we decide this was a bad idea again?

 

[JeffBergGold]

Id love some clarification.

Alright.

Are you seriously saying physically weak people are always stupid?

Not at all.

I mean seriously?

Seriously, if you read the quote you'd realize that is not what I said.

Youd have trouble taking your doctor seriously if he couldnt beat you in a punching match?

Athletic competition extends beyond punching matches.

Youd have trouble taking your professor or someone of massive intellectual merit seriously because he cant launch a fist as hard as you?

If they had great intellectual merit they would value physical fitness as much as intellectual fitness.

Thats utterly inane and intellectually weak to associate two things that have basically NO correlation at all and give respect accordingly.

How are the body and mind not correlated? I'm very interested in how you came to this conclusion.

If your respect is earned and lost with "Can you hit this thing as hard as i can" then your respect is less than worthless. Respect is earned by deeds, personal worth and by character. Not entirely by physical strength.

Than* There is no singular way to earn respect since people quantify qualities differently. I appreciate you giving me your opinion on what attribution of respect should be awarded though. It makes you sound like a nobel, evolved, and good person. I'm impressed that you are such a good person.

Also what constitutes strength?

Usually the presence of type ii muscle fibers.

Im not physically strong.

I'm sorry to hear that.

But i own a bow and im a pretty damn good shot.

I'm physically strong and a pretty damn good shot.

Likewise with a gun.

Ditto

I imagine if our conflict was firearms/bow related id beat you very easily.

Feel free to believe that if it makes you feel better. I believe I could give you a run for your money. There is a high likelihood I could even beat you.

If anyone broke into my house i could turn them into a pincushion fairly comfortably.

You misunderstand how combat and initiative work.

Am i still weak for opting to learn useful and difficult skills rather than work out?

Yes, because working out is more difficult than the skills you learned. If it was easy as you claim you would be physically strong. Physical strength is one of the few things that have no negatives. People with intellectual merit know this.

Both options are equally valid. Id say i had to work harder to master a technique intellectually than anyone did by pumping weights.

If that makes you feel better feel free to believe it. Just know that it's not true, just an ego preservation mechanism to compensate for your physical weakness.

Second this time im genuinely confused.

Okay.

I think its only fair to say control in a relationship should be about 50/50.

I agree.

I mean women are not possessions right?

Right, I'm still with you at this point. Let it be known that I never stated that they were. You're making false attributions like the other guys.

We cant "dominate" them unless they actually want to be dominated or else its fucking weird.

It seems the issue with this statement is that you perceive dominance as a bad thing. When I speak of dominance.I mean the man should be the one who initiates and determines the direction and value of a relationship.

I would agree if you mean "Men give ALL control to women just because they are desperate" because i agree thats weak.

I'm glad we can agree on something.

I wouldnt agree if you mean "Men give some control to women and thats bad because women having any control is weak".

That is not what I stated.

Dont you find the entire idea that you, super strong anti weakness you, is THREATENED by a DUDE IN A DRESS to be the pinicle of weakness?

It is a weakness I'm trying to overcome. This thread is me confronting my weakness. I never said I was perfect. Just pretty darned close.

What does it say about the "surety" of your strength that the mere existence of a dude who cares not for your values makes you utterly disgusted and unsettled.

It says that my strength can be improved upon. It is already pretty impressive though.

How weak must your stance be, how low your own confidence in what you think, that even a single disagreeing view totally unsettles your world.

It doesn't. False attribution, assumptions. I think its weird it makes me uncomfortable. Nothing more nothing less. Your Freudian analysis would be incorrect in this case.

Ive never been weirded out by anyone's existence because i know what i value is worth valuing and no one just thinking or being differently can make me doubt it to any serious degree.

That's pretty impressive, me too!

It speaks of colossal insecurity to be so hostile to any opposing thought just because it exists because you find that threatening. Its rather childish if anything.

It's not hostile, I just think it's weird and disgusting. Like I said, I respect guys who are effeminate. They just creep me the fuck out. If being weirded out by dudes crying makes me insecure than I am okay with your definition of "insecure". So are billions of other men.

 

[JeffBergGold]

Hey Jeff, have you ever been to a psychiatrist?

Yeah, its a prerequisite for getting into the military. If you are found to have any psychological disorder you can't join.

I suggest you stay away from them because I'm pretty certain they'll have you locked up.

Psychiatrist don't lock people up. You misunderstand what psychiatrist are.

I'm not sure what you have

Because you're not a psychologist and unqualified to judge mental disorders through online mediums.

but it's remarkably similar to antisocial personality disorder (aka a psychopath) with narcissistic tendencies.

Elaborate, I'm interested in how you came to this conclusion.

 

[Charli]

Hah, what a champion. I hope this becomes more widespread.


...I mean I HATE dresses, I reserve my right (as a perfectly straight female) to wear jeans/trousers constantly (like I don't even own a dress). Without anyone batting an eyelid.

Why is it so surprising men should get the same expectations.

 

[Sebass]

Lack of empathy, lack of remorse, sense of superiority, easily threatened self-image, ..

But I wasn't being serious. Although I do find some of your beliefs quite strange, I don't think you have a personality disorder.

 

[White-Death]

I think this calls for a perfectly practical use of the kilt.
But this is Rural Germany, nobody gives a fuck there, I think its one of the few places where you can have gay orgies in the town center and nobody would bat an eyelid.

 

[JeffBergGold]

Lack of empathy

Empathy is not something that can be expressed online. Empathy is the accurate assessment of others emotions, intentions, and genuineness. I've been told many times that I am a surprisingly astute empath.

lack of remorse,

How do you know I lack remorse, I've never punished anyone. If anything the people who disagree with me are the ones who lack remorse.

sense of superiority

Guilty as charged!

easily threatened self-image

I'd have to disagree. Men that exhibit this type of behavior just creep me out the fact that there are A LOT of them especially here on the escapist creeps me out even more. It has nothing to do with my image and more to do with the alternative gaming community.

But I wasn't being serious.

You should be more careful with such serious allegations.

Although I do find some of your beliefs quite strange,

I do too, I'm doing my best to analyze them. Maybe someday a guy in a dress won't bother me.

 

[Sebass]

Lack of empathy

Empathy is not something that can be expressed online. Empathy is the accurate assessment of others emotions, intentions, and genuineness. I've been told many times that I am a surprisingly astute empath.

lack of remorse,

How do you know I lack remorse, I've never punished anyone. If anything the people who disagree with me are the ones who lack remorse.

I might be wrong, but the way I interpreted what you said here:

I see men proud to have a girlfriend who is less attractive than them and warrant an undeserving women care and intimacy. His desperation lowers the value of all men.

As the inability to comprehend that there might be other factors at play in an intimate relationship besides just attractiveness. And I mean that in a different way than just being shallow and placing looks above personality but that personality is something that's not even worth mentioning, that you don't place any import on the emotional bonding aspect of these people's relationship and thus cannot understand why this man would give this woman care and intimacy. Okay, perhaps empathy is the wrong word to describe this but it's the word that I could come up with that comes closest.

and here:

I have had men deride me for having multiple relationships and not emotionally investing in a woman just because she happens to be a woman.

After heaving read this again I think I might have misunderstood what you ment. I thought you ment you have several relationships at once and did not emotionally invest in any of these women. So while they were emotionally invested in you you cheated on them and did not care and thus no remorse ..

I tend to jump to conclusions quite quickly with the information that's given to me and since you didn't say you had relationships were you were emotionally invested I assumed that you didn't.

easily threatened self-image

I'd have to disagree. Men that exhibit this type of behavior just creep me out the fact that there are A LOT of them especially here on the escapist creeps me out even more. It has nothing to do with my image and more to do with the alternative gaming community.

Hm .. Okay, see the way you explained your thoughts in several posts just gave me the impression that you are somebody with quite strong and rigid convictions. Now, there's no problem with that on its own, but when someone who doesn't conform to those beliefs elicits such a strong emotional response it just feels sort of like you care too much about other people's lifestyle just because they don't align with your own ideals.

Although I do find some of your beliefs quite strange,

I do too, I'm doing my best to analyze them. Maybe someday a guy in a dress won't bother me.

Hehehe, I don't think that something bothering someone is a problem though. I'm irritated by many types of people, including overtly effeminate men because their basically the male equivalent of 'The Valley Girl'. I just think that disgust is such a strong emotion that it shouldn't be evoked so easily.

But I wasn't being serious.

You should be more careful with such serious allegations.

Well, this is the internet so everything here needs to be taken with a saltmine .. But I apologize if I offended you. Don't take my 'accusations' as insults, I'm quite flawed in the empathy, remorse and self-image department myself and I'm quite sure I have alexithymia, ADD and am prone to substance abuse. Even though I don't agree with a lot you've said, I think you're quite the interesting indivual.

 

[JeffBergGold]

As the inability to comprehend that there might be other factors at play in an intimate relationship besides just attractiveness.

I understand this but why choose an unattractive woman with a good personality over an attractive woman with a good personality? The only conclusion I can come to is that the guy believes he is undeserved of a relationship with an attractive woman and opted for an ugly one instead. Male insecurity and incompetence when it comes to relational interactions devalues all men.

Knowing that I'm being devalued because some guy is insecure really irks me.

And I mean that in a different way than just being shallow and placing looks above personality

I don't believe this is necessarily a bad thing.

but that personality is something that's not even worth mentioning,

I'm only interested in the personality if I find the person to be physically attractive. Personality becomes a consideration after the initial interaction, not before.

that you don't place any import on the emotional bonding aspect of these people's relationship and thus cannot understand why this man would give this woman care and intimacy.

See the above post. Why would a man opt for an unattractive woman with a good personality rather than an attractive woman with a good personality.

After heaving read this again I think I might have misunderstood what you ment. I thought you ment you have several relationships at once and did not emotionally invest in any of these women. So while they were emotionally invested in you you cheated on them and did not care and thus no remorse ..

This is not indicative of remorse dude. I gave no illusions that I was exclusive. I can see If I lied about being monogamous but I didn't.

I tend to jump to conclusions quite quickly with the information that's given to me and since you didn't say you had relationships were you were emotionally invested I assumed that you didn't.

I have been emotionally invested in romantic relationships before, if you were assuming that I haven't.

Hm .. Okay, see the way you explained your thoughts in several posts just gave me the impression that you are somebody with quite strong and rigid convictions. Now, there's no problem with that on its own, but when someone who doesn't conform to those beliefs elicits such a strong emotional response it just feels sort of like you care too much about other people's lifestyle just because they don't align with your own ideals.

A man wearing a dress is not lifestyle it is disturbing. To me it is almost like stumbling past a gruesome accident on the side of a road. It is the reason I will never accompany people to bars or clubs in Hollywood anymore.

Hehehe, I don't think that something bothering someone is a problem though. I'm irritated by many types of people, including overtly effeminate men because their basically the male equivalent of 'The Valley Girl'. I just think that disgust is such a strong emotion that it shouldn't be evoked so easily.

For me disgust is not a very strong emotion, I get disgusted daily when I see unsightly people. It seems our value for disgust is different.

Well, this is the internet so everything here needs to be taken with a saltmine .. But I apologize if I offended you. Don't take my 'accusations' as insults, I'm quite flawed in the empathy, remorse and self-image department myself and I'm quite sure I have alexithymia, ADD and am prone to substance abuse. Even though I don't agree with a lot you've said, I think you're quite the interesting individual

Hmm, I see. When I see be more careful I don't mind the accusation it's more about psychological labels being used to dismiss or demonize people we don't particularly agree with. I believe it is a dangerous practice that reduces the value of psychology. I've been psychologically labeled more times than I could possibly count. To me it's funny.

But in the future just call me a jerk, asshole, neanderthal, etc. Thanks for being mature about all this. Understanding is the key to people getting along!

 

[Nietz]

The story is really heart warming. The father seems like a really nice dude.

If my(hypothetical) son had the same preference for clothing. I probably wouldn't adopt his fondness for dresses, but I would never scold him or forbid him for doing what he feels is right for him. In the long run, if you suffocate your child with your or "the worlds" ideals, the child will most likely resent you... and the world.

Also... Seriously, it's 2012 and a dude can't wear a sweet dress when he feels like it? Are we still adhering to "boy clothes" and "girl clothes"?
-Yes we are!
-Sh*t, seems that we are... why can't we be better than this?

 

[Sebass]

I understand this but why choose an unattractive woman with a good personality over an attractive woman with a good personality? The only conclusion I can come to is that the guy believes he is undeserved of a relationship with an attractive woman and opted for an ugly one instead. Male insecurity and incompetence when it comes to relational interactions devalues all men.

Well, less 'attractive than him' is different from 'unattractive'. And nobody will disagree that you should choose a person that you're attracted to, but sometimes romantic feelings for someone can develop in spite of that person not being the most attractive you can get. Yeah sometimes it's insecurity, but sometimes Love Happens. And even if it's insecurity, if that person is happy, is that persons happiness not more important than 'maximizing his potential'?

Knowing that I'm being devalued because some guy is insecure really irks me.

Ah I see. Well, I don't feel that what others do has anything to do with me. If someone is insecure, that person is insecure and that has nothing to do with me. I don't feel a bond with him just because we both have balls. I can't really bring up the effort to care that much about what others do.

I don't believe this is necessarily a bad thing.

That depends on how you and what kind of relationship you're pursuing imo.

I'm only interested in the personality if I find the person to be physically attractive. Personality becomes a consideration after the initial interaction, not before.

I agree.

This is not indicative of remorse dude. I gave no illusions that I was exclusive. I can see If I lied about being monogamous but I didn't.

I assumed something you didn't say. Mea culpa. No problem with not being monogamous if you're honest about it.

I have been emotionally invested in romantic relationships before, if you were assuming that I haven't.

I did assume that. Again, mea culpa.

A man wearing a dress is not lifestyle it is disturbing. To me it is almost like stumbling past a gruesome accident on the side of a road. It is the reason I will never accompany people to bars or clubs in Hollywood anymore.

It's not a lifestyle by itself, but it's part of the way someone wants to live their life. And like I said I just don't care enough what others do, that does not directly affect me, to be bothered enough to feel anything more than irritation, pity or superiority.

For me disgust is not a very strong emotion, I get disgusted daily when I see unsightly people. It seems our value for disgust is different.

I agree.

Hmm, I see. When I see be more careful I don't mind the accusation it's more about psychological labels being used to dismiss or demonize people we don't particularly agree with. I believe it is a dangerous practice that reduces the value of psychology. I've been psychologically labeled more times than I could possibly count. To me it's funny.

But in the future just call me a jerk, asshole, neanderthal, etc. Thanks for being mature about all this. Understanding is the key to people getting along!

I'm intrigued, what kinds of labels have you received than? And alright, I'll try to remember that dickface. And yeah, it is nice when people can get along. =)

 

[Risingblade]

I wouldn't let him wear it. The kids only 5 he doesn't know the other kids are going to make fun of him. Oh sure in an perfect world this shouldn't matter but guess what? We don't live in a perfect world. I'd let him wear monk robes I think that's a valid compromise.