Poll: Father in rural Germany finds his young son likes to wear dresses; does the same to show solidarity.

[DugMachine]

Props to the man for standing up for something he believes in. Change would never happen if no-one ever made a stand for it.

That's the problem though. This is the father making a statement not the son. He's basically exploiting his son's current fascination with dresses as some sort of political statement. The kid is 5, he's just wearing it because it feels good most likely.

There are plenty of transexual and cross dressing adults in the world, a change still isn't happening. Allowing a child to be ridiculed won't help anything.

 

[Nemesis729]

Nah, I'd handle this differently. Just like that guy isn't into pseudo intellectual bullcrap about gender roles, I'm not into the whole "You can do anything you want and ignore society" way of life, because it's simply not realistic, and it never will be.

I know a lot of people probably quoted you but I'd like to throw my hat in.

You say that a man dressing as a woman is ignoring society and that isn't realistic, But there are plenty of people who live this lifestyle. People who get sex changes or merely cross-dress are everywhere, and the number keeps growing. To be fair I don't know if this is true for Germany, (I live in the USA) But it's not unheard of for people to live like this.

 

[Nemesis729]

I'm seriously amazed at all the people totally ignoring the fact that he will be ridiculed by his peers in school and that allowing a fucking five year old to make his own choices at such a ridiculously young age is somehow considered good parenting.

You're not going to emotionally damage the boy for making him not wear a dress for his own good.

I completely disagree with this, A parent smothering his sons personality is the opposite of helping. The kid should be allowed to express himself, and the dad is just trying to be supportive. Plus, should this kid really be making the kind of friends that will make fun of him for being himself?

 

[Mr. GameBrain]

Props to the man for standing up for something he believes in. Change would never happen if no-one ever made a stand for it.

That's the problem though. This is the father making a statement not the son. He's basically exploiting his son's current fascination with dresses as some sort of political statement. The kid is 5, he's just wearing it because it feels good most likely.

There are plenty of transexual and cross dressing adults in the world, a change still isn't happening. Allowing a child to be ridiculed won't help anything.

I don't know, I think in the long run I would prefer a father that stood up for the stuff I liked, no matter how stupid it may look, then one that constantly tries to pidgeon hole me into what society sees as acceptable.

(Yeah, my old man used to be like that. A lot. I was an emotional child, I used to get upset easily as a way to vent out my stress harmlessly. My old man and the people around me used to ridicule me all the time because I was so soft. Did it help me get normal? Hell No! I was still bullied because I was fat. I still have social anxiety. Oh and bottling up my emotions? You know what that resulted in? Violence. Sudden acts of uncontrollable aggression, something I can avoid these days by simply not caring about what anyone thinks and letting it out in a good cry. (I try not to ever get violent. Its my personal demon which reminds me to try to diffuse my stress and talk to people about my problems, even if they can't fully comprehend it (my mother has once again become the person I normally speak to about this stuff. Yeah I'm a real mommas boy (hell I still go around with the family at 21. I love my family. I'd rather go to the cinema with my mum and my little bro then go out drinking and clubbing like all the other boys and girls. Hell nothing is better than a good sleepover with my best friend and I am damn proud to admit that! XD))))

 

[JeffBergGold]

zzzz

Over analyzing my statement to derive a result that would make your right. I'm not going to address every point since this thread has been argued into the ground. I will just say this intelligence is not one dimensional and having a nobel prize doesn't mean someone is brilliant it just means they had enough time and passion to devote towards a specific goal.

Intellect is not one dimensional for some reason you think intellect is purely cerebral which any intelligent person will tell you is idiocy.

I think the woman/relationships/control thing was a misunderstanding. I agree with you there.

Glad we can agree on something.

Many find arrogance (overwhelming arrogance) to be the greatest character flaw a person can have. A false sense of superiority makes someone almost unbearable to talk to and be around. Its as weird to look down on someone and lose respect for them due to a physical attribute like strength as it is to do so for pubic hair colour. If i lined up everyone ive ever known and assigned respect/friendship to the strongest id have VERY different inferior friends in my book. It would be sad to miss out on knowing such extraordinary people just because of my random physical preferences.

The times I've been called arrogant it has always been by an insecure person. If I come across as arrogant I really can't do anything about it. Most people find me of above average confidence though.

Part of me just thinks this is a waste of time. Youre not going to take my arguements seriously unless they are presented by someone who is physically strong. Since ive already told you this isnt the case you probably wont even consider thinking about the points im making. If i go down to the gym and get someone to write this for me will you pay attention?

If I knew it was written by you? Probably not. Don't misinterpret me, I never said I dismiss weak people outright. I just warrant them less respect.

I do find your outlook to constantly better yourself admirable though even if it does instill a false sense of superiority over your fellow man. Part of me has resolved to try this outlook myself and actually get down the gym to better myself. Ill avoid the arrogance though. My head will never be swollen enough to think that those who disagree with me on the state my body should be in are inherently inferior people. Ill resolve to be like you minus that huge flaw. Like a Jeff 2.0.

I really hope you reach your goals in the gym and become a better guy than I am. This is a good program to start with if you're serious. Maybe you can revisit my perspective when you grow some shiny strong muscles!

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224&page=1

 

[Something Amyss]

Nah, I'd handle this differently. Just like that guy isn't into pseudo intellectual bullcrap about gender roles, I'm not into the whole "You can do anything you want and ignore society" way of life, because it's simply not realistic, and it never will be.

I know a lot of people probably quoted you but I'd like to throw my hat in.

You say that a man dressing as a woman is ignoring society and that isn't realistic, But there are plenty of people who live this lifestyle. People who get sex changes or merely cross-dress are everywhere, and the number keeps growing. To be fair I don't know if this is true for Germany, (I live in the USA) But it's not unheard of for people to live like this.

You may want to rethink the concept of "men dressing as women" if you're using "people who get sex changes" as part of the proof behind it.

Additionally, it is not a lifestyle.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm seriously amazed at all the people totally ignoring the fact that he will be ridiculed by his peers in school and that allowing a fucking five year old to make his own choices at such a ridiculously young age is somehow considered good parenting.

Kids get ridiculed for just about everything, and five year olds make a lot of choices within parameters. It's unlikely that the parents have no say in this; rather, they decided to go along with it.

Also, maybe the people supporting the ridicule should be the ones viewed as the problem. I mean, God forbid we actually do something about a much larger societal issue than a little boy in a dress.

 

[DugMachine]

I'm seriously amazed at all the people totally ignoring the fact that he will be ridiculed by his peers in school and that allowing a fucking five year old to make his own choices at such a ridiculously young age is somehow considered good parenting.

You're not going to emotionally damage the boy for making him not wear a dress for his own good.

I completely disagree with this, A parent smothering his sons personality is the opposite of helping. The kid should be allowed to express himself, and the dad is just trying to be supportive. Plus, should this kid really be making the kind of friends that will make fun of him for being himself?

I don't know about Germany but this kid doesn't just get to go wherever he wishes and choose who he socializes with. In America pretty much until high school you're forced to be with people because the school system dictates what classes you are in.

 

[DugMachine]

I'm seriously amazed at all the people totally ignoring the fact that he will be ridiculed by his peers in school and that allowing a fucking five year old to make his own choices at such a ridiculously young age is somehow considered good parenting.

Kids get ridiculed for just about everything, and five year olds make a lot of choices within parameters. It's unlikely that the parents have no say in this; rather, they decided to go along with it.

Also, maybe the people supporting the ridicule should be the ones viewed as the problem. I mean, God forbid we actually do something about a much larger societal issue than a little boy in a dress.

Nobody is supporting the ridicule. We're saying that kids suck and trying to reason with 5 year olds is like banging your head against a brick wall. Things like this are done as adults because then you're actually making a statement. At such a young age like this all you're doing is setting yourself up for ridicule.

 

[Flizzick]

I'd let him wear them as long as he wants, but I wouldn't wear them myself. The father is trying to show his son that he accepts his decisions and encourages them, but to do this he changes himself to make his son feel accepted. Obviously the kid didn't need any reassurance by his parents that this was ok because he started doing it anyway, so it seems unnecessary for the father to try and reinforce it through influence. If the kid decides he wants to continue wearing dresses, all the dad has to do is respect his son's decision.

 

[Nemesis729]

Nah, I'd handle this differently. Just like that guy isn't into pseudo intellectual bullcrap about gender roles, I'm not into the whole "You can do anything you want and ignore society" way of life, because it's simply not realistic, and it never will be.

I know a lot of people probably quoted you but I'd like to throw my hat in.

You say that a man dressing as a woman is ignoring society and that isn't realistic, But there are plenty of people who live this lifestyle. People who get sex changes or merely cross-dress are everywhere, and the number keeps growing. To be fair I don't know if this is true for Germany, (I live in the USA) But it's not unheard of for people to live like this.

You may want to rethink the concept of "men dressing as women" if you're using "people who get sex changes" as part of the proof behind it.

Additionally, it is not a lifestyle.

Well I said people who get sex changes or cross dress, I think men dressing as women falls into the second category. And when I said live that lifestyle I meant live that way, I didn't mean to infer that it's something your whole life revolves around.

 

[Nemesis729]

I'm seriously amazed at all the people totally ignoring the fact that he will be ridiculed by his peers in school and that allowing a fucking five year old to make his own choices at such a ridiculously young age is somehow considered good parenting.

You're not going to emotionally damage the boy for making him not wear a dress for his own good.

I completely disagree with this, A parent smothering his sons personality is the opposite of helping. The kid should be allowed to express himself, and the dad is just trying to be supportive. Plus, should this kid really be making the kind of friends that will make fun of him for being himself?

I don't know about Germany but this kid doesn't just get to go wherever he wishes and choose who he socializes with. In America pretty much until high school you're forced to be with people because the school system dictates what classes you are in.

Yes but school isn't your whole life, he still has time outside of the classroom to make real friends. Despite what many kids in high school believe, nothing that happens there really matters at all. It's more important to be happy with who you are, rather than just trying to fit in.

 

[DugMachine]

Yes but school isn't your whole life, he still has time outside of the classroom to make real friends. Despite what many kids in high school believe, nothing that happens there really matters at all. It's more important to be happy with who you are, rather than just trying to fit in.

Yeah tell that to all the emotionally damaged victims of severe bullying. The type of bullying that this child will go through if no sensible adults with a real world view step in and tell him that at this moment in time, it is not okay for him to wear the dress. Once he's an adult then by all means go for it.


edit: taking out my second part cause I reflected and fuck that, school is everything at that age. You don't have work to do and you don't have any sort of social circle to turn to but your parents.

 

[Nemesis729]

Yes but school isn't your whole life, he still has time outside of the classroom to make real friends. Despite what many kids in high school believe, nothing that happens there really matters at all. It's more important to be happy with who you are, rather than just trying to fit in.

Yeah tell that to all the emotionally damaged victims of severe bullying. The type of bullying that this child will go through if no sensible adults with a real world view step in and tell him that at this moment in time, it is not okay for him to wear the dress. Once he's an adult then by all means go for it.


You are right about one thing though, school isn't everything. It is a damn big chunk of your life though. Like I said idk about Germany but in america we spend damn near 8 hours a day 5 days a week in class. That's a lot of time out of your day.

I'm sorry but it seems we simply have different perspectives on this subject, I can totally understand where you're coming from, but in my head, it's worth tolerating bullies to keep your individuality.

I used to be bullied all the time in school, (After I started beating up the kids who bullied me it became mostly verbal.) I think I'm better off from it. I wouldn't change any of it, it gave me perspective on people, what they're really like and who to trust. I think bullies are a good way to get prepared for the real world, call me pessimistic if you will, even call me stupid, but that's my view.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Id explain what it would mean for my son if he wished to wear a dress, how he would be viewed, that he wouldnt be different like all the other kids are different, but that he would be a freak in the eyes of society and if he wanted continue, i would support him. and yes, iw ould say its unfair that girls can dress in jeans and not be subjected to the same, and no, i would not teach him to hate women for it because that would in fact make him the same as those he would be receiving hate from.

However, the cynic in me feels this is a dumb and pointless story, because when you boil it down to the basics, its a father doing his duty as a father, and thats not news, its whats expected of a father. if this is the feel good story, that a father is actually BEING a father, then society is far past the point of sickening and the people are too used to it then they should or at least that they like ot think they are and say they arent.

So take fromt hat what you will i suppose.

 

[IamGamer41]

I have lost all faith in the human race now.