Poll: Father in rural Germany finds his young son likes to wear dresses; does the same to show solidarity.

[DugMachine]

snip

Okay, two points.

1) Forcing a kid to conform to society's dress code for his own good just seems nefarious.

2) You cannot combat a bully by removing potential targets, cause not only does that completely ignore the way bullies work, it also tells the victim that they are somehow responsible for the abuse they face. And that's entirely backwards thinking. What ought to happen is any child who bullies this kid for his dresses - or any other kid for any reason - ought to face swift and severe punishments within the school system, if not within the law itself.

Normally you'd be right and I don't think bullies should go unpunished. But we're dealing with 5 year olds here, not young adults who actually know right from wrong but want to be assholes anyways. Kids will be kids and kids are facking cruel.

But do understand that I know where you all in support of this are coming from, I just worry about the kid, being a victim of severe bullying myself.

 

[rbstewart7263]

I saw an article today that made me really consider, like really consider, how we see gender roles. Even those of us who scoff and say we oppose them have to wonder. Do we REALLY oppose them? How far would we go? Heres an article for you, its in german so its basically german readers only (translation software really sucks).

http://www.emma.de/ressorts/artikel/kinder-jugendliche/vater-im-rock/

Basically a father discovers his young son who is 5 has a preference for dresses over any piece of clothing. In a fairly religious rural part of Germany this kid obviously didn't make a lot of friends with such a "strange" outfit. Rather than chastise his son or tell him that's how society is the father decided to also start wearing dresses to make him feel normal.

"Yes, I am one of those fathers who is trying to raise his children with gender equality. I'm not one of those pseudo-intellectual daddies that rambles on about studying gender justice, and then, as soon as the child is born, falls back into the comfortable and clichéd gender roles: he realizing himself through work, she taking care of the rest."

It raises a lot of interesting questions.

If this happened to you as parent what would you do, would you allow your young sons to start wearing dresses?

Would you endorse it like this father did?

Is it our "duty" as parents to make sure our child knows what society deems as normal and abnormal?

Even if it should be considered normal is it worth making your son stop just to save him from being a social periah where he lives?

Is forcing a conformity to baseless gender roles a lesser evil than letting your son get used to a choice he doesn't yet understand the consequences of?

Im interested escapist, what would you do? A poll is included. Im personally torn. Id love to think id be as open minded as this father. But social pressure is a strong force. I dont know if id have the guts to do this. Mega props to the father though. What a legend. Someone has an iron will to be there for his son. Gotta admire that.

In principle Id love to but dude I live in Ms so I dont know. honestly not when hes 5. when hes old enough to break gender roles AND defend himself yeah but not while at school during his younger years thats just asking for it.

 

[rbstewart7263]

snip

Okay, two points.

1) Forcing a kid to conform to society's dress code for his own good just seems nefarious.

2) You cannot combat a bully by removing potential targets, cause not only does that completely ignore the way bullies work, it also tells the victim that they are somehow responsible for the abuse they face. And that's entirely backwards thinking. What ought to happen is any child who bullies this kid for his dresses - or any other kid for any reason - ought to face swift and severe punishments within the school system, if not within the law itself.

Normally you'd be right and I don't think bullies should go unpunished. But we're dealing with 5 year olds here, not young adults who actually know right from wrong but want to be assholes anyways. Kids will be kids and kids are facking cruel.

But do understand that I know where you all in support of this are coming from, I just worry about the kid, being a victim of severe bullying myself.

Well you know that goes against instinct and survivalism. the army wears camo for a reason. Theres actually a saying that victims invite there agressors.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Normally you'd be right and I don't think bullies should go unpunished. But we're dealing with 5 year olds here, not young adults who actually know right from wrong but want to be assholes anyways. Kids will be kids and kids are facking cruel.

But do understand that I know where you all in support of this are coming from, I just worry about the kid, being a victim of severe bullying myself.

5 year olds are not vicious by nature. But even if they were:

You had a hard lot, sure. I empathize on some levels - kids picked on me, too. But would it have been easier on you if you had changed everything about yourself to suit what the bully wanted you to be? Would that have made you a happier person? Is it better to reject your own identity to fit the whims and social norms of people who go out of their way to treat you less than human?

I say no. Further, I think if the father continues to reinforce his son's identity now, then he'll grow older knowing that it doesn't matter what other people think, because he is who he is and that is perfectly all right. I think his father may be very well instilling enough self confidence in the boy now that no bully will ever do him much harm.

Captcha says: Good Luck. I agree, Captcha.

Damn trill thats a good point I shall have to think long and hard on this.

captchane way

 

[dslatch]

Before puberty gender don't mean shit. during or after they do whatever the fuck they want.

 

[Evil Raccoon]

And why is the first thought that pops up into my head the Lumberjack song that Monty Python made?

 

[CrazyDave DC]

I feel like most of us would let this kid wear dresses in theory, but in reality we might lean more towards making sure he doesn't get made fun of. Of course, I'd like to believe that I would say "son, be who you want to be and don't let anyone tell you different," but I'm not sure I could take the expected name-calling and abuse directed at him.

 

[Voulan]

Brilliant! That's a great dad.

I don't know why people are so concerned about this. He's a young child that prefers a particular piece of clothing, end of story. When he grows older he might start wearing other things, but to a five year old, it's all mostly the same thing, and they have no concept of any bias that society makes up to feel more important. He's not concerned, so no one else should be. When he gets older, and all of these bullshit unspoken 'rules' become clear to him, he'll probably start wearing different clothes.

This is why I like children. The world is so much simpler and friendlier. Then you grow up, and suddenly there's things you can or cannot do according to the unspoken law of 'morality' and 'socialism'.

But for now, dresses are probably more fun to play in. And that's all a five year old kid is, and probably should be, concerned about.

 

[Samus Aran but a man]

Before puberty... gender roles... yeah sure whatever works

 

[lunavixen]

I think that father deserves a pat on the back at the very least, not only is he allowing his son to wear what he wants to wear, the dad is wearing it too so his son doesn't look so out of place. Even if I wanted to I can't say anything to the contrary, more than half of my clothes are mens clothes.

 

[6_Qubed]

The only reason the kid should ever be sat down and explained upon regarding why dresses are an unusual thing for a boy to wear is to prepare him for dealing with the moronic fuckwits who would make a whole "issue" out of it.

The only problem I can find with it is a distinct lack of pockets.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I really hope you reach your goals in the gym and become a better guy than I am. This is a good program to start with if you're serious. Maybe you can revisit my perspective when you grow some shiny strong muscles!

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224&page=1

Despite me being slightly insulting and confrontational at least youre rather polite. Legitimately i can kinda see where you are coming from with the idea of "Why SHOULDNT i perfect my body when i work so hard on my mind, why accept that i only get one?" and have been thinking this way for some time. Ill give this a look.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

Who cares? "Oh no, you shouldn't be wearing that bit of fabric that way!" Pfft. Some cultures are so painfully stupid.

Oh, this is acceptable (And widely expected) though:

Personally, I think this guy is really deserving of the "Worlds best dad title" because I'm sure not many people would be willing to do this, or rather take the option of telling your kid "That isn't normal". Props to this guy.

 

[___________________]

Now THAT is a father. Helping his kid as much as he can during the most crucial years of the little guy's development.

 

[samahain]

If you look at me, you'll see the creepy dude who has 7 times the same model of pants, one for each day of the week, like a uniform. (and yes, like Pee-Wee Herman *HA-HA-HaW* fr@kk you!) Point is, who am I to tell people what to wear?

I think that conformity has to be taught again. Not to mold people into drones, just as a common ground. If nothing else, for those who don't crave to tell the whole damn world who they are. Is it wrong to fit in? Can't we be equal-but-differnt? I mean roles are one thing, but a dress code is another.

Personally, I believe that 5 years old is too young to pick your own clothes.
That sort of thing comes later in life as a way of expressing who you are and what first impression you want to give. That's just me, but he'd dress with the clothes I get him until he's 18 or convinces me otherwise.

 

[ElPatron]

Once however, he reaches the legal age of concent (here its 16) he can obviously dress himself by this point, and if he wants to wear a dress he can.

My country's age of consent is 16 too, but what the hell does that have to do with anything? We reach adulthood at 18 - when you get to 16 you can fuck, drink and start motorcycle driving lessons but we're legally considered children. And children still need their parents to give consent to everything except the part about drinking and sexing.

Oh, yeah, I shaved my face today. It's grey, blonde and ginger already, because it grows back. At age 16 you have to go wax, laser or be really late into puberty to not look creepy in a dress.

 

[Catie Caraco]

Sorry as a firm Eddie Izzard fan (and wannabe transvestite, its a bugger getting the shoes cheap and large enough), I say watch this from about 26mins that is why the wearing of dresses only by the girls is not fair and we blokes should remedy this because:

a. As mentioned earlier it is good for the testicles to be cooler this is easier to acheive with floaty dresses that stuffy trousers.
b. We blokes will look FAAAABULOUS!

Spoiler

*applauds* Oh my god, I love Eddie Izzard. He looks better in a dress than I do. I'm sure that's true of a lot of men.

As to the OP, wearing a dress as a man is only wrong in some cultures. As has been pointed out, the Scots wear kilts. Greek and Roman males wore long, flowy garments such as togas. African males wear long, flowy garments. I think it's high time people chill the eff out and wear what they want.

Now I really want to see a market for men's dresses. You know, with manly patterns like camo and ... monster trucks, or Super Hero logos. With utility pockets. Somehow this could be flipped around and dresses could become the manliest man thing, with the right marketing.