Poll: Female Games
- Thread starter Axolotl
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On a scale of one to sort your frickin' grammar out you're at eleven and not in the good Spinal Tap way. Seriously you're not Frank McCourt or Patrick McGabe and you're sure as hell not Yahtzee, so go deal.
OT: As a gamer, I don't honest give a crap about how much or little the female characters where. As a female, I take it as a compliment that men enjoy and glorify the female form. Also, you should acknowledge the fact that women and men are both used as sex symbols. How frequently do you see a buff man whipping his shirt off in video games and in movies?
The only kind of girl who gets offended by this stuff is the kind with either FA in the confidence department, an ongoing crisis of sexual orientation or who is unaware of her own beauty, assuming herself to be some unappealing creature which is 99.99% of the time sincerely untrue.
OT: As a gamer, I don't honest give a crap about how much or little the female characters where. As a female, I take it as a compliment that men enjoy and glorify the female form. Also, you should acknowledge the fact that women and men are both used as sex symbols. How frequently do you see a buff man whipping his shirt off in video games and in movies?
The only kind of girl who gets offended by this stuff is the kind with either FA in the confidence department, an ongoing crisis of sexual orientation or who is unaware of her own beauty, assuming herself to be some unappealing creature which is 99.99% of the time sincerely untrue.
wait what...gears of war is not playable as a girl you silly (maybe nr 3 will be in multi)
I think there are plenty of games in which you can play as a girl (zelda for instance... hehe XD). no seriously I don't get your point and you should use firefox with a spell check!
to name a few non sexual female protagonists:
anything fallout, TES, Fable etc. rpgs like you said
Metroid, Multiplayer modes
probably plenty other games
also females are also sex symbols in things outside games
I think there are plenty of games in which you can play as a girl (zelda for instance... hehe XD). no seriously I don't get your point and you should use firefox with a spell check!
to name a few non sexual female protagonists:
anything fallout, TES, Fable etc. rpgs like you said
Metroid, Multiplayer modes
probably plenty other games
also females are also sex symbols in things outside games
Critical hit!wilted_orchid said:
I really wish Dead or Alive wasn't so damn perverted.. it's a decent fighting game.EightGaugeHippo said:
I don't think Samus qualifies as a strong female role model. Ill admit I never played anything past the SNES version but Samus's sex was in no way relevant to the story at all.
A good female game as the OP would state it would be games such as The Longest Journey, Dreamfall, and Beyond Good And Evil. All featured strong female protagonists that were presented as realistic women.
A good female game as the OP would state it would be games such as The Longest Journey, Dreamfall, and Beyond Good And Evil. All featured strong female protagonists that were presented as realistic women.
It's like he began a tangent while experiencing a Turrets attack.Axolotl said:
To answer the question proposed by the poll, which thankfully makes sense; yes. Women are objectified quite often in video games. Laura Croft and Bayonetta are two examples that leap to mind.
Arguably these are badass babes. Laura Croft is an adventure action hero that robs tombs of their relics, blows away anyone in her path, and puts olympic acrobatics to shame. In her heyday, there were people that said, "Laura is a strong female lead, and a fine role model." Initially, she was. In like, her first game. But then her breasts, and sex appeal became more important than her character. In one game, when you hoist yourself up on a ledge, you can come to a hand stand, and do the splits. A nice look, with those short shorts she's always sporting.
Bayonetta doesn't even attempt to cover it up. The concept has extenuated features-- legs, bust, hips. Legs most of all. (As someone that's studied human anatomy closely, to draw it with correct proportions, seeing legs like hers makes me want to eat my own eyes.) She has legs a mile long, dressed in skin tight... hair, I think, and her every move generates sexual energy.
There's a whole roster of women in fighting games that fit this criteria, if you look for them. Blood Rayne-- a vampire in a cat suit, is a sexual fetish personified. Stopping here, because I could go on. Yes, women are sexually exploited as sexualized objects in some games.
There are a fair share of good women in games too! Elena from Uncharted 1 (haven't played U2 yet, so I can't speak for the women there) struck me as a real women! She was written so well, that she appealed to me as a woman. Like, Laura Croft should aspire to be Elena! Jenny from the Darkness was an innocent girlfriend, and one you cared about as a character and a person. Elika from 2008's Prince of Persia was like so many women I know, that she brought a smile to my face. These are a small handful of women that are REAL women in games.
The shame is that, the best written women are not successful game icons. It's a make dominated industry, and men like their boobies. So we'll see lots of Lauras, and Bayanettas. Meanwhile, a quality woman of worth slips through the cracks, every now and again.
Lets face it; Gamers are mostly men. I dont have a fancy statistic to back that up; but if you want proof just go into ANY online mode in ANY game and just listen. Statistic enough.
Because most gamers are men (or so the Stereotype is; maybe women dont buy mics?), games are catered to have manly interests in mind. Mainly, sex and violence.
While we do have a few mold breakers, the few women we do see in games are usually:
A. Background Character used to shuffle you from mission to mission
B. Love interest
C. Thinks thongs help in battle (see every fantasy RPG ever)
D. Wears the skimpiest ammount of clothing possible
E. Your playing Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball
F. All of the Above
Sure; Samas may kick ass and Alyx may not be the typical woman assistant... But this is a no-contest.
Because most gamers are men (or so the Stereotype is; maybe women dont buy mics?), games are catered to have manly interests in mind. Mainly, sex and violence.
While we do have a few mold breakers, the few women we do see in games are usually:
A. Background Character used to shuffle you from mission to mission
B. Love interest
C. Thinks thongs help in battle (see every fantasy RPG ever)
D. Wears the skimpiest ammount of clothing possible
E. Your playing Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball
F. All of the Above
Sure; Samas may kick ass and Alyx may not be the typical woman assistant... But this is a no-contest.
I know it's an exception to the rule, but I've recently picked up Rhapsody: A Musical Adventure because it supposedly has the reputation of "a cult classic, unique for its intense girlyness, a story that focuses on romantic conquests, low difficulty and musical numbers instead of cutscenes."
Now, I understand that Rhapsody is more of a 8-year-old girl game than a female game, but it was quite an interesting experiment for me. Even though the dungeons are bad and outdated.
While I did get an estrogen shock from that one and had to go kill something with guns, I think I wouldn't mind trying girl-games. Or gender-neutral games (pretty much all Valve games feel rather "genderless"). Maybe they use another source of drama and tension, and a story different enough to be refreshing.
Now, I understand that Rhapsody is more of a 8-year-old girl game than a female game, but it was quite an interesting experiment for me. Even though the dungeons are bad and outdated.
While I did get an estrogen shock from that one and had to go kill something with guns, I think I wouldn't mind trying girl-games. Or gender-neutral games (pretty much all Valve games feel rather "genderless"). Maybe they use another source of drama and tension, and a story different enough to be refreshing.
EightGaugeHippo said:
I am offended, I'm not saying your wrong by any means. It just sounds bad when its said out loud.
I think, I just lost 10 points of I.Q. , from reading the OP, which doesn't make a proper argument and leads me to think even if he/she did, it would surely fail.
Btw. Sex sells. That's all there is to it.
Btw. Sex sells. That's all there is to it.
The RPG girls I do agree with you on. Playing as a woman in Fallout 3 (while being a male in rl), one thing I thought that would be easier is to get men to jump my character's bones a lot easier, I mean, what's one thing that needs to happen in a post apoctolyptic wasteland where people are killing each other left and right? Sex...you can't have any. That's something that needs to change in games, it can turn a personality-less woman into either a sexual deviant, or a ***** who seduces men, never gives it up, and leaves them tied up or helpless for the raiders
One thing that games never have is the option to make the woman into the type of woman you want to make her, where men get that in a lot of games, pretty much every female game character has her personality already set by the developers, breathing room is nice I would say
One thing that games never have is the option to make the woman into the type of woman you want to make her, where men get that in a lot of games, pretty much every female game character has her personality already set by the developers, breathing room is nice I would say
You, like all those that made a similar thread to boost his ego, have a point. But then again, let's look at reality for a bit.AngelofDarrkness said:
Many good looking women made career of either being pretty or naked... or both in the case of Megan Fox. Why? They love the attention for their body. Those who can't... they kinda feel left out. I'm sure if you would take a girl and made her damn good looking, she might be into that. That said, Can we really do something about that? No But, like real life, they shouldn't be the majority of character in anything. In fact, that why i love SF3 3rd Strike and Makoto. She's... and that from the what i gathered on her... She's a girl that have little breast and short hair. She pass sometime for a boy, which she take offense to.
Makoto is a young Japanese girl, trained in Rindoukan karate. Her karate style is very similar to that of Shotokan karate. Although having little fashion sense for a girl her age, she still hates it when she is mistaken for a boy. She develops something of a rivalry with kunoichi Ibuki, as shown by their alternate opening when they fight each other.
By the way, did you play fallout 3? Women as character are better then man. Why? 70% of the raider and enemies are male. Once you pick up black Widow, you BROKE THE GAME. And about your criticism for the moral choice, it the same for man. That a flaw from the gaming department, not sexism. But since you must play exclusively female, you didn't pick it up. Try Mass Effect. You can make hard hitting questions with no bad or good and play as a female Sheppard.
As for the In Distress trope, let's take Peach or ToadStool or whatever you call her. She is the typical if not Poster child of Women in distress... hang on, she helped in Mario Bros 2, Became the hero in Super Peach on the DS, Manage to send supply to Mario even captured and even manage to elude multiple guards to do so in Paper Mario series and Mario Bros 3. Man, she the most active imprisoned girl i have ever seen. That's not all. Our resident MovieBob is also known for his other persona... THE GAME OVERTHINKER. Here, let's listen on his words of wisdom.
But after all, i do my part. I'm not a guy that look at the body... that much. I'm more of a guy that love a refreshing and interesting personality. In fact, my last crush wanted to rule over the planet like Bowser with the mushroom kingdom. When i play game, i don't play that much those with the female body being like Ivy or May or well anything close to that. I also don't buy sexualized game. You know, like DoA Paradise. What we can do... not much. But when women will start screaming for change, i'll be there with them. That's all we can do as male gamer.
Hey, i got a idea... how about starting a petitions girls?
Edit: correcting grammatical mistake.
Females are treated like sex symbols in real life,thats why we have females treated like sex symbols in games it isnt just a game thing
Final fantasy is kind mixed in this matter, sometimes the female's are all girly such as Garnet (Dagger)they always needs someone to protect or rescue them. OR they are all hardcore such as Lightning but it kinds of shifts and they always wear tight or short clothing..
It's a non-issue actually. Guys are used as sex symbols just as much as girls are, it's just they aren't directed at guys and we're more vocal about this kind of thing so we hardly notice unless it's something really overt like the "Twilight" marketing campaigns and the like.
As far as the "Damsel in distress" thing goes, well usually it makes a certain amount of sense when it's done correctly, and there have been plenty of games where you have been out to free some king, or super-wizard, or whatever that is needed to unite everyone or save the world just as much.
As far as girls being able to fight and so on, in fantasy there is some truth to this. In reality not so much. In reality guys and girls are built differantly and guys peak out a lot higher than girls do in terms of strength and speed and so on, and intellect wise there is no differance. A girl who is in better shape and/or has superior training to a guy can beat him, but at the high end if your dealing with a member of each gender who trained up to their peak the guy is always going to be tougher.
In fantasy we can get around these things, because it's easy to suspend disbelief in comics that Red Sonja can fight as well as Conan, or that The Black Widow and Captain America are equally dangerous in hand to hand combat. However when you look at the damsel in distress stereotype consider that it's grounded in reality, especially as far as most of history goes where women were "second class" specifically because they were weaker (and part of this actually involves protection). The idea of some dude rescueing a girl from an overwhelming physical threat is pretty much a demonstration of typical gender roles.
Now, in fantasy you have various other ways of giving equality as well, which is integral to a lot of concepts. Someone for example mentioned Samus who is one of the more well known female action heroes in games, and definatly not a damsel in distress, she gets by through using super-technology in the form of a battle suit and gadgets. Then of course you have various other characters who have employed cyberware, genetic modification, magic, or other gimmicks. In other cases it's just a matter of "it's fantasy" and they pretty much just wing it and if they do it right it's easy to suspend disbelief if they write it well.
When it comes to things like "Dead Or Alive" specifically, I'd point out that while a lot of people will point to the girls and their physical "attributes" it's important to note that all of them are viable characters and quite deadly in the game. Some are pretty well written backround wise. What's more the guys are just as bad in the way they are portrayed, it's just men don't see it. In general if you see a guy with a bicep bigger around than his neck, and perfect body-builder type muscle definition it's the same kind of thing, albiet in a differant direction. Pretty much everyone in games like "Dead Or Alive" is an idealized physical specimin.
Characters like Sepiroth from Final Fantasy VII are also a good example of reverse marketing, as there are tons of girls who have gone gaga over characters like him, some to an unhealthy extreme.
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Sephirothslave
Is one example, if you want to find a lot more of wierd "exploitation" and obsessions by women over male characters try reading some stuff on fanfiction sites as well.
At any rate the point of all this rambling is that it's a non issue pretty much. It goes both ways, and women are no more exploited than guys are, and generally speaking what little you see when it comes up tends to be politely within the grounds of reality.
As far as the "Damsel in distress" thing goes, well usually it makes a certain amount of sense when it's done correctly, and there have been plenty of games where you have been out to free some king, or super-wizard, or whatever that is needed to unite everyone or save the world just as much.
As far as girls being able to fight and so on, in fantasy there is some truth to this. In reality not so much. In reality guys and girls are built differantly and guys peak out a lot higher than girls do in terms of strength and speed and so on, and intellect wise there is no differance. A girl who is in better shape and/or has superior training to a guy can beat him, but at the high end if your dealing with a member of each gender who trained up to their peak the guy is always going to be tougher.
In fantasy we can get around these things, because it's easy to suspend disbelief in comics that Red Sonja can fight as well as Conan, or that The Black Widow and Captain America are equally dangerous in hand to hand combat. However when you look at the damsel in distress stereotype consider that it's grounded in reality, especially as far as most of history goes where women were "second class" specifically because they were weaker (and part of this actually involves protection). The idea of some dude rescueing a girl from an overwhelming physical threat is pretty much a demonstration of typical gender roles.
Now, in fantasy you have various other ways of giving equality as well, which is integral to a lot of concepts. Someone for example mentioned Samus who is one of the more well known female action heroes in games, and definatly not a damsel in distress, she gets by through using super-technology in the form of a battle suit and gadgets. Then of course you have various other characters who have employed cyberware, genetic modification, magic, or other gimmicks. In other cases it's just a matter of "it's fantasy" and they pretty much just wing it and if they do it right it's easy to suspend disbelief if they write it well.
When it comes to things like "Dead Or Alive" specifically, I'd point out that while a lot of people will point to the girls and their physical "attributes" it's important to note that all of them are viable characters and quite deadly in the game. Some are pretty well written backround wise. What's more the guys are just as bad in the way they are portrayed, it's just men don't see it. In general if you see a guy with a bicep bigger around than his neck, and perfect body-builder type muscle definition it's the same kind of thing, albiet in a differant direction. Pretty much everyone in games like "Dead Or Alive" is an idealized physical specimin.
Characters like Sepiroth from Final Fantasy VII are also a good example of reverse marketing, as there are tons of girls who have gone gaga over characters like him, some to an unhealthy extreme.
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Sephirothslave
Is one example, if you want to find a lot more of wierd "exploitation" and obsessions by women over male characters try reading some stuff on fanfiction sites as well.
At any rate the point of all this rambling is that it's a non issue pretty much. It goes both ways, and women are no more exploited than guys are, and generally speaking what little you see when it comes up tends to be politely within the grounds of reality.
People, male and female both, are used as sex symbols in just about every context imaginable. So yes, women are occasionally sex symbols in video games.
I think that was a response to OP's point, it was not exactly clear.
Games where you can play as female are not exactly uncommon, I would like to mention every single Bioware RPG as an example. However, with gender as with all other character characteristics, it makes demands of the story. Not all stories can be told with changing variables, and when they can, the resources required to take alternate paths into account can become quite weighty.
In some games, the gender of the played character is virtually pointless, and there are naturally not spared resources to develop variations.
I think that was a response to OP's point, it was not exactly clear.
Games where you can play as female are not exactly uncommon, I would like to mention every single Bioware RPG as an example. However, with gender as with all other character characteristics, it makes demands of the story. Not all stories can be told with changing variables, and when they can, the resources required to take alternate paths into account can become quite weighty.
In some games, the gender of the played character is virtually pointless, and there are naturally not spared resources to develop variations.