Poll: Girls Don't Like Assholes.

[Eamar]

Eamar told him that his outlook was what was causing the problem, what he didn't mention was the solution. Why didn't he mention it? Because the solution is to get the fuck over yourself and deal with it.

I'm a she, but I won't hold that against you

And to be fair, I was hoping to ease Doclector into some sort of conversation and tease out some relevant information (didn't want to go in all guns blazing if there was some seriously bad shit that had recently happened or something). I would have got to the "get over it" part eventually, though probably not in those words.

I think we're all just working from our own experiences here. You're doing what you found helpful for you, I'm starting off gently because that helps me (I also have experience of mental health problems). If Doclector want to take any advice he has a variety of approaches to choose from. Ball's in his court now.

Yeah, but that's because you're quite a bit nicer than me xD

Strangely enough, I'm much more patient on the internet than I am in real life... I have no idea how that works either.

 

[Smeatza]

I'm a sociopath who hates anything that reminds me of the point in time where I cried myself to sleep at night. I hates the people who have the same problem that I did, but without the strength and courage to do what I did to change it.

And the part in bold...well...just horrifies me. You hate those that are weaker than you emotionally?

Yes. Problem?

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

 

[Panzer_God]

Eamar told him that his outlook was what was causing the problem, what he didn't mention was the solution. Why didn't he mention it? Because the solution is to get the fuck over yourself and deal with it.

I'm a she, but I won't hold that against you

And to be fair, I was hoping to ease Doclector into some sort of conversation and tease out some relevant information (didn't want to go in all guns blazing if there was some seriously bad shit that had recently happened or something). I would have got to the "get over it" part eventually, though probably not in those words.

I think we're all just working from our own experiences here. You're doing what you found helpful for you, I'm starting off gently because that helps me (I also have experience of mental health problems). If Doclector want to take any advice he has a variety of approaches to choose from. Ball's in his court now.

Yeah, but that's because you're quite a bit nicer than me xD

Strangely enough, I'm much more patient on the internet than I am in real life... I have no idea how that works either.

I used to be. Now I have more fun rising to the bait people lay out. It's so much fun to tell someone that everything they think about me is true and listen to them try and explain why that makes me the scum of the earth.

 

[Panzer_God]

I'm a sociopath who hates anything that reminds me of the point in time where I cried myself to sleep at night. I hates the people who have the same problem that I did, but without the strength and courage to do what I did to change it.

And the part in bold...well...just horrifies me. You hate those that are weaker than you emotionally?

Yes. Problem?

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

No, not really. I think I'm just fine, in fact I'd say I'm still in the right. I'm waiting for you to tell me why it's a bad thing. Why am I a bad person for expecting everyone to be as strong as me?

 

[Smeatza]

I'm a sociopath who hates anything that reminds me of the point in time where I cried myself to sleep at night. I hates the people who have the same problem that I did, but without the strength and courage to do what I did to change it.

And the part in bold...well...just horrifies me. You hate those that are weaker than you emotionally?

Yes. Problem?

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

No, not really. I think I'm just fine, in fact I'd say I'm still in the right. I'm waiting for you to tell me why it's a bad thing. Why am I a bad person for expecting everyone to be as strong as me?

Because not everyone is as strong as you.
There are so many factors (genetics, upbringing etc.) in play here that to expect everyone to be at your level of emotional strength is unrealistic and unreasonable. And to say that your civility and kindness only extends to those that are at or above your standards is elitist. To say that you hate those who are not up to your standards is just......wow.

More to the point, to look at somone who is going through the same struggles you went through, see that they might not have the emotional strength to meet those challenges and then to condemn them for it, instead of taking pity or (at the very least) leaving them alone is hateful and destructive.

It genuinely saddens me to see you feel this way.

Oh, and also

You know, I really need to learn how to deal with attacks like this. My response is normally to pretend that they're right and then ignore them. If he wants to think I'm callous and cold-hearted, if he wants to think I'm abusing whiny people to hide flaws inside of myself, then I'll let him. It's not worth arguing.

The way you would deal with this is by explaining why you think I'm wrong, and why you think you are correct.
If you still have nothing it might be time to start considering that I'm correct.
And I do not think you are trying to hide the flaws inside of yourself, I think your method of giving advice is reckless and inconsiderate.

 

[Panzer_God]

I'm a sociopath who hates anything that reminds me of the point in time where I cried myself to sleep at night. I hates the people who have the same problem that I did, but without the strength and courage to do what I did to change it.

And the part in bold...well...just horrifies me. You hate those that are weaker than you emotionally?

Yes. Problem?

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

No, not really. I think I'm just fine, in fact I'd say I'm still in the right. I'm waiting for you to tell me why it's a bad thing. Why am I a bad person for expecting everyone to be as strong as me?

Because not everyone is as strong as you.
There are so many factors (genetics, upbringing etc.) in play here that to expect everyone to be at your level of emotional strength is unrealistic and unreasonable. And to say that your civility and kindness only extends to those that are at or above your standards is elitist. To say that you hate those who are not up to your standards is just......wow.

More to the point, to look at somone who is going through the same struggles you went through, see that they might not have the emotional strength to meet those challenges and then to condemn them for it, instead of taking pity or (at the very least) leaving them alone is hateful and destructive.

It genuinely saddens me to see you feel this way.

Now I see where our opinions differ. You see, when I see someone who in unable to do what I could, I'm put in a situation where I have a few options.

1) I can treat them as though they are as capable as I am, which is apparently unreasonable.

2) I can treat them as though they are less capable than me, which is condescending.

3) I can ignore them completely, which is heartless.

I fail to see a way to win here. Also, just in case you are confused, I am an elitist. I think that a chain is only as good as it's weakest link and I see no reason to be ashamed of that. I think that I was in a position where the only holding me back was my own mental problems and I didn't expect hand-holding or special circumstances. I think that anyone who can't fix their problems on their own shouldn't be treated specially. I think that holding yourself back to take care of people weaker than yourself is the best way to waste your own potential.

Note, since any discussion of elitism eventually degenerates to "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!" I'm not in favor of abandoning children who can't keep up with adults, that's taking elitism and self-sufficiency to a dangerous level.

 

[Panzer_God]

I'm a sociopath who hates anything that reminds me of the point in time where I cried myself to sleep at night. I hates the people who have the same problem that I did, but without the strength and courage to do what I did to change it.

And the part in bold...well...just horrifies me. You hate those that are weaker than you emotionally?

Yes. Problem?

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

No, not really. I think I'm just fine, in fact I'd say I'm still in the right. I'm waiting for you to tell me why it's a bad thing. Why am I a bad person for expecting everyone to be as strong as me?

Same reason it would be bad for me to look down on anyone who can't do math as well as I can and expect them to perform the same regardless of their capabilities. It's simply a fact some people aren't able to do it. So it is an unrealistic expectation. That is bad.

Good answer. Question, and this is a legitimate question, but do you really not get annoyed with people who aren't as good? You don't watch people struggling with equations you've mastered and sigh? I don't know when you were in school last, but you didn't get mad when your math class spent three times as long as you needed on something because other people couldn't keep up with you?

 

[Panzer_God]

I'm a sociopath who hates anything that reminds me of the point in time where I cried myself to sleep at night. I hates the people who have the same problem that I did, but without the strength and courage to do what I did to change it.

And the part in bold...well...just horrifies me. You hate those that are weaker than you emotionally?

Yes. Problem?

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

No, not really. I think I'm just fine, in fact I'd say I'm still in the right. I'm waiting for you to tell me why it's a bad thing. Why am I a bad person for expecting everyone to be as strong as me?

Same reason it would be bad for me to look down on anyone who can't do math as well as I can and expect them to perform the same regardless of their capabilities. It's simply a fact some people aren't able to do it. So it is an unrealistic expectation. That is bad.

Good answer. Question, and this is a legitimate question, but do you really not get annoyed with people who aren't as good? You don't watch people struggling with equations you've mastered and sigh? I don't know when you were in school last, but you didn't get mad when your math class spent three times as long as you needed on something because other people couldn't keep up with you?

I get a bit annoyed when people fail to understand, but that's just, well... irrational frustration. I can get past that and not blame people personally. I mean hell, I tutor people in math so I better be able to get over that, you know? XD

But I have been very annoyed when people held things back, but if I stop and think past my initial reaction I don't keep holding it against them. I wouldn't, for instance, go and say that they should be as good as me if I'm asked about it. I'll acknowledge my anger is irrational and it will be brief, lasting for the time that I am inconvenienced and a bit after as I cool down.

That's fair, and I won't deny that my anger is irrational. I can't quite think of the right way to say it, but it's not just that I really expect them to be as good as me. I say I expect them to be as good as me because that's the easiest way, but I can accept people not being as good as me just so long as they want it as much as I do, as long as they put in as much work as I do. It's not fair to them at all, but I'm pretty damn sure I've lived a worse life then most, so if I can get over it, why can't they?

If it's because they aren't able to, then how can you help them?

If it's because they don't want it, the why would you try?

If it's because they won't put the effort in, then why would you care?

The first group is the only one I sympathize with, but I still fail to see why I'm in the wrong for not wanting to waste my time.

 

[antipunt]

Women are a hivemind again?

Nice.

Now I can get them all to make me a sandwich at the same time by using my fiancee as my communicator.

Joking aside, nobody knows what women want, because women are individuals too.

Cheap answer, I know.

But it's the right one

I'd left off one of the most important disclaimers in the opening xD. Thank you for reminding me.

QFT :O

It helps to realize that women are basically 'people' too. It sounds easy, but in reality, it can be hard for us introverts to 'ingrain' this mentality at first. Women are on a pedestal; they don't fart, or poop. Sometimes the reason why they don't 'like' you is because they simply aren't your type, in the same way you wouldn't like a 'fine' girl in a similar way. People have preferences.

I know it's all easier said than done, but basically, women = people. They have insecurities/wants/flaws too. Can't blame them for being attracted to confidence in the same way I'm attracted to cuties :3

 

[Doclector]

snip.

It isn't a relationship thread until Doclector whines about how he is the most ugly and unattractive person in existence and the world is conspiring against him.

Yeah well. I'm sorry. I'm genuinely sorry, but every time one of these threads appears, it feels like a personal insult. That I'm lazy, inconsiderate, a coward. Not having a relationship is not the only damn thing in my life. I'm generally happy. I'm working towards my goals. Admittedly unlikely ones, but ones I care about. I've been up against my very worst fears to go to uni. I've struggled for years against all odds, I am none of those things. I'm fed up with being labeled as pathetic because I refuse to be humiliated. And y'know what? I love the assumption that I'm like this in real life. The only reason I'm like this here, is because when my friends are down, I'm the one who picks them up. They depend on me. It's not like that hurts, I enjoy it, why would I want to be a director if I didn't? To burden them with my problems would f*** that up a little, huh?

Look, I know I'm obsessed. I know there's something wrong with me when every time the point comes up, I have to pitch in no matter how much I know the same response is gonna happen every damn time. I know I'm paranoid, but there is jack all help out there besides mindf*** pills and asylums, so I just cope the best I can, and on the whole, I cope well. So I guess I'll try my best to keep it to myself.

 

[370999]

snip.

It isn't a relationship thread until Doclector whines about how he is the most ugly and unattractive person in existence and the world is conspiring against him.

Yeah well. I'm sorry. I'm genuinely sorry, but every time one of these threads appears, it feels like a personal insult. That I'm lazy, inconsiderate, a coward. Not having a relationship is not the only damn thing in my life. I'm generally happy. I'm working towards my goals. Admittedly unlikely ones, but ones I care about. I've been up against my very worst fears to go to uni. I've struggled for years against all odds, I am none of those things. I'm fed up with being labeled as pathetic because I refuse to be humiliated. And y'know what? I love the assumption that I'm like this in real life. The only reason I'm like this here, is because when my friends are down, I'm the one who picks them up. They depend on me. It's not like that hurts, I enjoy it, why would I want to be a director if I didn't? To burden them with my problems would f*** that up a little, huh?

Look, I know I'm obsessed. I know there's something wrong with me when every time the point comes up, I have to pitch in no matter how much I know the same response is gonna happen every damn time. I know I'm paranoid, but there is jack all help out there besides mindf*** pills and asylums, so I just cope the best I can, and on the whole, I cope well. So I guess I'll try my best to keep it to myself.

Well it is a tad baffling to me

You seem to be a reasonably smart person, and by pursuing a path as a Director I would assume that you do possess a certain amount of insight into the emotional side of people.

So why are you so sold on this fantasy? It's an appealing one, I slip into it at times, but it isn't a real view of what people are actually like.

So yeah I kind of have to go by what I know of your character on the net. And that character seems to be sold on something just as fictitious as One True Love.

But if you like it, why discuss it so much? I just can't comprehend it. Mind you I'm not a very good netizen seeing as I have zero interest on having discussions that were already covered before.

 

[Smeatza]

Now I see where our opinions differ. You see, when I see someone who in unable to do what I could, I'm put in a situation where I have a few options.

1) I can treat them as though they are as capable as I am, which is apparently unreasonable.

2) I can treat them as though they are less capable than me, which is condescending.

3) I can ignore them completely, which is heartless.

You can not treat them with scorn, you can not hate them. You can try to realise that they still have value as a human being even if they're not as emotionally strong as you.

I fail to see a way to win here. Also, just in case you are confused, I am an elitist. I think that a chain is only as good as it's weakest link and I see no reason to be ashamed of that. I think that I was in a position where the only holding me back was my own mental problems and I didn't expect hand-holding or special circumstances. I think that anyone who can't fix their problems on their own shouldn't be treated specially. I think that holding yourself back to take care of people weaker than yourself is the best way to waste your own potential.

Then you are the definition of cold and callous. And I don't see why you bother protesting when people call you on it.
And I'll say it again, your personal experience is not universally relevant, the fact you didn't expect people to be civil to you, doesn't mean you have the right to be uncivil to others, and it certainly doesn't mean that being uncivil is helping.
And I wouldn't say that inspiring potential in others is a waste of potential at all.

 

[Panzer_God]

Then you are the definition of cold and callous. And I don't see why you bother protesting when people call you on it.

I don't. I'm cold, callous, heartless, elitist and a sociopath. What I have been arguing is that it's a bad thing. Up until now your only argument is that it isn't very nice, which again, I never denied. You keep taking my arguments as though I disagree with everything you say, despite the fact that I point out the specific points I disagree with.

 

[peruvianskys]

I don't. I'm cold, callous, heartless, elitist and a sociopath. What I have been arguing is that it's a bad thing. Up until now your only argument is that it isn't very nice, which again, I never denied. You keep taking my arguments as though I disagree with everything you say, despite the fact that I point out the specific points I disagree with.

OH GOD YOU'RE SO COOL

Please grow up. That whole chaotic evil thing gets old around high school.

 

[Panzer_God]

I don't. I'm cold, callous, heartless, elitist and a sociopath. What I have been arguing is that it's a bad thing. Up until now your only argument is that it isn't very nice, which again, I never denied. You keep taking my arguments as though I disagree with everything you say, despite the fact that I point out the specific points I disagree with.

OH GOD YOU'RE SO COOL

Please grow up. That whole chaotic evil thing gets old around high school.

Ah of course, because Heaven forbid there be someone that actually has these issues. Let me tell you, if I could grow up I would have because despite what high school kids think, it's not fun to not care. Ok, that's a lie, it's a lot of fun, but incredibly unfuffiling. I can make a dozen new friends every day, but I don't have any the next one. It's the first day at a new school every single day, and the best way to survive it is to convince yourself that you're above it. It's a defense mechanism, and it works. I'm sorry if it's too cliche for your highly exquisite tastes, but I don't give a damn.

 

[Zeriah]

I think what you are saying is in general correct (of course some girls probably do find testosterone fueled, alpha-male, assholes in and of themselves attractive regardless of confidence). Initially, confidence is often hugely important (though the degree of confidence will vary) and most of the time the guy with confidence probably wont be much of douchebag at all.

Sometimes they might be though and girls might initially be interested in them because those kind of alpha guys generally ooze confidence (and the fact that they are dicks might not be immediately apparent). That's when you get the complaints from the guys who have been 'friend-zoned' where woman complain to them about their boyfriends being dicks and wishing they were nice like them. However at the end of the day, in most cases, the reason why they didn't choose you was because they didn't find you attractive and a lot of the time, it really might have been a confidence issue (I know, like a lot of guys I've been there).

Physical attraction is obviously the other part but they usually go hand-in-hand.

Though of course I'm just a guy and basing this off of my personal experience and the woman I know, which is hardly a valid source. So what do I know?

 

[Torrasque]

*quoting your first original post, I am just snipping it down because it is really huge*

I've had this page open for a few days now with the intention of reading it, but with MLG starting this weekend, I've been a little occupied and whatnot. Well, I've finally read your post, and I have to say that it was very enlightening.

It is unfortunate that I am one of those guys that gets annoyed when he is friendzoned, one of those guys that says "why was I friendzoned? I am a much better guy than the guy that she is dating!", but after reading your post, I am going to do as much as I can to stop. It is unhealthy, really stupid, and it doesn't actually get me anywhere.

I had more that I was going to say, but MLG just started up again =|

 

[AngelBlackChaos]

Well. Here is my two cents.

I am female for one, so I think my opinion might count a bit in this perspective. I have dated a lot up until I met my fiance. I met great guys, non confident and confident, geeks, attractive (physical, mental or both), and so on.

Assholes never lasted too long for me. I mistakenly dated a manipulator once, but got out of that trap relatively soon.

My fiance is a confident guy. He is not egotistical, he is not a prick, he is confident that there is some things that he can offer someone in life, particularly me. There was two guys interested in me at the same time as my fiance, and I quickly fell for him. The first wasn't super confident, but a decent guy with a few personality clashes with mine. Great as a friend, not a person I considered for a lover. The second was an overconfident guy that didn't take no as an answer, then acted as if i was insane to not date him. Needless to say, wasn't considered either.

I chose my fiance for who he is, not some secret girl's checklist that claims i must pick someone with an ego, or someone with confidence, or someone geeky (which he is) or someone beautiful. I would love him even if he had no idea what Mass Effect, Diablo, Super Mario Brothers, Persona, or Bayonetta was. I love him for him. Amazing concept isn't it?

The summary:

Girls date guys for different reasons. Stop lumping us together like some horrible mass of tits, ass, mysteries and judgement. Seriously, that seems more unattractive than not being confident.