Poll: GM food.... wait.... what?

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Zantos

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Greenpeace doesn't seem to have a clue what they're on about most of the time. They just go for buzz words like GM or nuclear without understanding it. I keep hearing the argument that the ITER experiment in France should never be built because of the Chernobyl disaster. Which is sort of on the same lines as declaring air travel unsafe because of a train accident.

Yes, they were wrong, because breaking in and destroying property is a crime no matter what dress it's wearing. If I started a group for the liberation of technology and went around stealing TVs in order to let them free of the oppressive shop then I'd get charged for stealing and probably get a slap from the nearest person with a brain. Same diff really.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Zantos said:
If I started a group for the liberation of technology and went around stealing TVs in order to let them free of the oppressive shop then I'd get charged for stealing and probably get a slap from the nearest person with a brain. Same diff really.
Promise me if you ever do this, you'll be chucking them out of the windows, shouting "FLY! BE FREE!"
 

Zantos

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RhombusHatesYou said:
Zantos said:
If I started a group for the liberation of technology and went around stealing TVs in order to let them free of the oppressive shop then I'd get charged for stealing and probably get a slap from the nearest person with a brain. Same diff really.
Promise me if you ever do this, you'll be chucking them out of the windows, shouting "FLY! BE FREE!"
I think I can stretch to that. When I get to court it means I can use the excuse "A rhombus told me to do it." Insanity plea, here I come!
 

Patrick Dare

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There is no evidence to support that GM foods are dangerous. These foods could help feed millions of people world wide who struggle to survive every day and it's assholes like greenpeace who hinder this research and spread unfounded claims about it being dangerous. I'm a liberal and consider myself an environmentalist but a lot of these groups like greenpeace, PETA and sea sheperd are hypocritical and exaggerate or completely make up facts to spread their anti-corporatist bullshit. Even the founder of greenpeace left the group because he felt it got away from it's original purpose to focus on politics.
 

omega 616

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The fact is everything you eat is genetically modified to some degree. You know those nice purdy, free range cows everybody goes bonkers for? Yeah, there GM. What do I mean, they parents were selectively bred to produce the results that were wanted, be it fatter cows, tougher cows etc.

If I remember right carrots were actually black before they were genetically modified by nature, they can also be selectively bred to be yellow.


People have been genetically modifying foods before we started messing round in labs. This is just a whole lot of fuss made by people who love nothing better than to ***** and moan.


EDIT: Just watch this. you have to go 1:40. The previous episode and the start of this one talk about the "bullshit" about fad diets and losing weight, from part 2 1:40 it talks about what were talking about.


 

Ghengis John

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Richardplex said:
Ghengis John said:
I wasn't trying to imply you were like that, merely that that's the flaw in Greenpeace activists line of thinking. Incredibly badly communicated though, must work on fixing that. For the record, I basically agree with your you say, and it's highly enjoyable to read. Once again, my bad for lack of communication.
Oh no problem. No harm, no foul and ty. A tip of the hat to you, sir.
 

NickCooley

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Fuck Greenpeace. Nothing but eco-terrorists and luddites. I despise any organisation that actively holds back the progress of humantiy.
 

Vakz

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TestECull said:
Anything Greenpeace does is wrong. They're just terrorists. The only reason they don't have a few M1A2's sitting in their living room is because they're doing it in the name of the earth instead of their deity.
This exactly. They give no thought AT ALL to the future. Humanity already has a problem with food shortage in many areas of the world, but according to greenpeace, we're not allowed to do things more effectively, because "it's not the way of nature", but NOT using GM food means we'd have to grow food on a way grander scale, which would require more areas like forests to be cut down to make room for farms, but cutting down forests is another thing Greenpeace is against. They're just hippie morons with no clue of reality.
 

jpoon

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I'm personally against the use of GM foods, they're eventually going to fuck the human population up pretty badly. They were in the wrong for doing this but I would totally be all for them razing a Monsanto factory and their Terminator seeds. Those fuckwads need to be brough down like a ton of bricks.

Buy local fresh non-GM foods and do your body a huge favor!
 

Hap2

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Sgt. Dante said:
People get freaked out by GM foods not realising that we;ve been doing it for generations...


Next time someone gets up in your face about GM food ask them if they eat carrots, then ask if they're purple. If they eat orange carrots they're GM foods.

GM foods doesn't mean pumped full of chemicals and terrible doom and gloom, it just means that they are grown in a controlled way.

Source [http://www.nextnature.net/2009/08/why-are-carrots-orange-it-is-political/]
Pretty much, humanity has been directing the growth of particular strains of crops to get the best yield and quality in particular environments for a long long time. There are particular strains of wheat that have been adapted for use in colder weather climates where I live that we've been exporting for decades.

Canola for instance too, is a human developed and controlled form of rapeseed, yet the oil it produces is one of the healthier cooking oils to use for consumption.
 

thethingthatlurks

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Short answer: they're in the wrong, let's lock them up and throw away the keys.

Long answer:
Greenpeace really bugs me. I'm one of those college edumacated liberal cretins, and I am quite in agreement with basic environmentalism. Renewable energy sources utilizing nuclear power as an intermediary until full implementation, better fuel economy standards, veggies over meat, etc. There's nothing wrong with those, and while I vehemently oppose "organic" farming, I can see the point of using pesticides as sparingly as possible (especially as a chemist, whew, talk about nasty stuff...). I also understand that the layperson has no idea how genetic engineering works, or why it poses no health hazards. Back in my junior year of college, I had to take a sociology class for some utterly demented reason. Not only did I discover that Feynman's statement vis-a-vis cargo cult science very much applies to that subject, I also found out that one's socio-political leanings have an immense effect on how one perceives the world. In one of the last assignments, I had to write an essay on economic globalization. I chose to focus on how GE/GM foods had been profitable and beneficial in mitigating world hunger. I had to address the huge elephant in the room, is that stuff harmful? My brief research of the scientific literature revealed nothing of the sort (mostly dealing with rodents, but they are a pretty good analog for humans). While most of the papers dealing with GE/GM health effects came from China, they were published in peer reviewed journals, and as such should not be doubted by the layperson. What does happen is cross-pollination, where GE crops and non-GE crops mingle. If this involves two different farmers, legal problems will result. It's unfortunate, but that's just nature.

I suppose I should mention Monsanto, as they tend to pop up in such discussions. Let me be frank, the guys running Monsanto graduated from the Jeffrey Dharmer school of Business Ethics. They're litigious pricks (that cross-pollination thing above? Yeah, they like to sue - the non-GE farmer!), assholes in every sense of the word, and a fine example of how capitalism can be abhorrently bad. BUT, the people working there are not, especially the scientists. You have to understand something: there are very clear guidelines on how experiments must be run, especially if the goal is to create something fit for human consumption. Every possible health effect must be analyzed (this is usually outsourced, in most cases to China due to the low cost of research there). It is highly unlikely that some super toxic/mutagenic/carcinogenic crop eventually ends up on the market. Everybody in the chain of R&D, production, marketing, management, quality control, and toxicological research has a stake in the success. Every step is repeatedly checked (particularly the research), and any problems would jeopardize the careers of all involved. In case you don't understand how brutal the punishment for faulty research is, look up people like Andrew Wakefield or Martin Fleischmann. In short, the idea that companies like Monsanto deliberately or accidentally poison people with their products is laughable. The real world doesn't work that way, my scientifically illiterate hippie adversaries. If there were any concern regarding the safety of GE/GM crops, it would have been known about at this point. But hey, if you have any concerns, PubMed provides free abstracts in journals dealing with food safety. Go do the bloody research for yourself, and please stop pretending you are more qualified than real scientists. kthxbai.

Oh yeah, wasn't this destruction of property? Guess they're not just idiots, but also criminals. Go figure...
 

the_green_dragon

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Ghengis John said:
the_green_dragon said:
Also, you seem a bit touchy about this whole subject, what with the massive wall of text above.
Eh I'm responding to multiple people. It's not one big rant but a series of small ones. I try to dignify everyone with a response who responds to me and (for the most part) nobody has annoyed me. Still trying to be reasonable, but I'm gonna be perfectly honest, I don't expect it will go over well. I have people telling me you're supposed to hammer in screws. That doesn't inspire confidence that tomorrow I'm not going to find an inbox full of face palms. But I'd like to say thanks for being reasonable yourself Green Dragon, and Alphonse all the way.

Though honestly, on the point of being touchy this purple carrot thing makes me want to cry. Honestly. I just read the post of the guy above me, it's like the 900th time I've seen it. People... sigh. Shame is he's perfectly right about Monsanto.
I like orange carrots. Purple carrots are just weird... like they're from World Of warcraft of something and should only be eaten by nightelves.

I think GM foods are ok, and while selective breeding and GM are not the same thing, they set out to achieve the same goal. Which everyone seems to agree on. I just meant people have been trying to modify stuff to suit us better since the first ape grabbed a rock and used it as a hammer. GM is the next evolution in a process that used to take generations of breeding and stuff. I suppose the bad thing about GM is when the crops do spread and adversly affect other crops and wildlife and other bad stuff.
 

Dimitriov

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Ghengis John said:
TestECull said:
Anything Greenpeace does is wrong. They're just terrorists. The only reason they don't have a few M1A2's sitting in their living room is because they're doing it in the name of the earth instead of their deity.
While we agree on greenpeace you are a hell of a broken record. For the record the only reason they don't have any M1A2's sitting in their living room is because they're cowards who want to hide behind the banner of non-violence even as they smash labs and hurl shit at people. And might I add, thank goodness for that cowardice.

Sgt. Dante said:
People get freaked out by GM foods not realising that we;ve been doing it for generations...


Next time someone gets up in your face about GM food ask them if they eat carrots, then ask if they're purple. If they eat orange carrots they're GM foods.

GM foods doesn't mean pumped full of chemicals and terrible doom and gloom, it just means that they are grown in a controlled way.

Source [http://www.nextnature.net/2009/08/why-are-carrots-orange-it-is-political/]
There is a difference between selective breeding and genetic modification. A pig and an earthworm could never be bred together. (You are welcome to try.) With genetic modification though there currently exists a hybridized animal that produces bacon chalk full of omega 3 fatty acids (that fat in fish that's good for your heart. These sorts of mixtures, which have never nor ever could have, occurred in nature are often fraught with ethical concerns as well as with all manner of unexpected, real-world problems. There was a scare in india for example where GM terminator crops had spread their sterility to neighboring rice fields. Another incident revolved around a genetically modified corn that killed off it's own pests without the use of chemicals, but also scores of endangered monarch butterflies. Genetic engineering has many very real dangers that it would be foolish to ignore as "doom and gloom".

The orange carrot defense for current practices of genetic modification is misleading at best and an outright lie at worst. Dutch growers chose only from among genes that already existed within carrots. They didn't pull genes from an orange and put them into a carrot to acheive their desired effect.

I have nothing against genetically modified crops, but they need to be observed and carefully controlled to make sure there are no adverse side effects to the natural gene pool or to their environments before being deployed. The purpose of this lab was just that.
This is something more people need to seriously think about. Yes what Greenpeace does is almost always wrong, but they do generally have a decent point to make.

Oh and the best part about GM foods? Even if they are perfectly safe... someone owns the patent on them. Since Gm foods are sterile that means that you have to continually buy your seeds etc. from a a few select mega-corporations. Yeah our food supply is being "copyrighted" how is that not cause for concern?
 

feycreature

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Are there potential risks of directly genetically modified (more so than those modified by breeding) plants? Yep. There are potential hazards of messing directly with the genetic structure of an organism, especially since it's a system that we still don't know nearly everything about.
Admittedly most of the real issues with GM foods are political and economic, not environmental. But these were crops grown specifically for testing the safety of feeding GM crops to livestock. You know, doing what research scientists should do with potentially dangerous products of scientific progress. "Haha, now you'll have to wait months growing new wheat in order to...determine whether it's safe to feed to livestock..."

*Facepalm*
 

2012 Wont Happen

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Fuck Greenpeace.
They are the worst sort of Leftists: Militant Liberals. People who would fight for true Leftist ideals but who are too busy on irrelevant or minor issues like destroying fucking crops.

They have fallen for the distractions of the enemy and for that deserve less respect from me than the right wing manipulators who keep issues like these in the news for people to waste their time over. At least they know how to get shit done.
 

Rawne1980

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Greenpeace....

Basically terrorists, but wait, they have a cause? Just like terrorists have their causes.

They are the same.
 

souper soup guy

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Yes, lets destroy crops that will use less water, be more hearty, and generally be better for the planet in the long term, its the perfect environMENTAL crime.
 

FernandoV

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Sgt. Dante said:
People get freaked out by GM foods not realising that we;ve been doing it for generations...


Next time someone gets up in your face about GM food ask them if they eat carrots, then ask if they're purple. If they eat orange carrots they're GM foods.

GM foods doesn't mean pumped full of chemicals and terrible doom and gloom, it just means that they are grown in a controlled way.

Source [http://www.nextnature.net/2009/08/why-are-carrots-orange-it-is-political/]
That's wrong actually. GM foods mean they've been purposefully modified in a lab to enhance appealing traits such as drought readiness, natural pesticides etc. What you're thinking of is domesticated crops such as the modern banana, wheat, peas, almost everything we eat currently.

But as for GP, they are a bunch of radical morons who seemingly want to keep us in the dark ages. GM foods are not the enemy.