Poll: GM food.... wait.... what?

[Booze Zombie]

GM foods are actually healthier and more convenient, they grow better, can be made to suffer less from disease, drought et cetera and give a bigger bang for your buck. To say they are bad or evil is idiotic.

Not really, that's just marketing. They turn plants into a patented product and make money from them, it's that simple.

Not a massive fan of running about destroying things like an entitled asshole from the Bullington Club, but people get some strange ideas about what they can do when they think something is wrong.

 

[caz105]

So, I ask you: Was Greenpeace in the right to destroy the crop?

The reason I ask is because my father saw no problems with their actions.

-coder

The long term effects of GM crops have not been tested so you can't really answer that question, enjoy being the whole worlds guinea pigs America (Y).

 

[Ghengis John]

Snip

Thanks for clearing that up. So how good/bad is GM then?

Very good with the proper oversight. There have been a few screw ups already and it's hard to say what to make of terminator crops that die after a season and are infertile. On the one hand they protect against genetic pollution (err... mostly) and on the other they put unreasonable amounts of power into the hands of the companies that make them, because farmers must buy them every year. Even though the crops are infertile though they have managed to effect neighboring crops of rice and soybeans. (whether through pollen exposure or some exposure to the viruses used to modify the original crop's genetic code I couldn't say) And guess what. They made those crops infertile as well. If something like that got out of control in a bread basket like the American Midwest or the Indian Haryana it would be an irrevocable disaster.

There are a few ethical issues as well. A bacterium mixed with a potato is making the potato deadly to a pest that relies on it. Of course it's a pest to us but do we have the right to drive it to extinction? And speaking of extinction there was the case of that GM corn crop that was killing it's pests but also endangered monarch butterflies as well. Transgenic modification has it's own problems as well concerning genetic pollution and can open up new vectors for disease. Want to give a rat the common cold? Give it a few genes from a human. This is already done in labs to give animals human diseases for testing purposes and in controlled conditions is relatively harmless. Because modified crops and livestock would exist out in the field and not in a vacuum there's no telling if they could serve as gateways towards introducing new diseases to unmodified crops or livestock that would be unable to cope with them. As an example of a real concern raised about the mixing of a pig and an earthworm: Pigs can get the common cold. Earthworms cannot. What happens to our soil and the ecosystem if a disease makes the jump to earthworms by the splicing and wipes them out?

I think as a species seemingly unable to check it's own growth we're in for some trouble if we don't get cracking on GM crops. But we have to be mindful of the fact that science is done by people and therefore prone to complications. The profit motive is also too strong at current, often circumventing safety concerns. And if the shape of the future is everyone pays Monsanto for seeds or people starve that's going to be a problem. Before crops are deployed it's essential that they undergo proper testing. That includes observing them in the field for an extended period and checking for unforeseen complications. This lab's purpose was exactly that, so shame on Greenpeace.

 

[Wicky_42]

Sorry, they broke into a building and destroyed someone else's property, and your father can't see a problem with it?

Anyway, GM foods aren't half as bad as people make them out to be. Hell, the practice has (indirectly) been going on as long as farming, with people selecting the traits they want in future generations of crops/animals, and using samples that show those traits to reproduce. Why is it suddenly a problem when we skip a few generations by making that process more direct?

Given a choice between 'we can have more wheat by constantly only reproducing the bigger, faster growing plants over years' or 'we can have more wheat by making the wheat bigger and faster growing RIGHT NOW', I'll take the latter. It won't suddenly turn you into a horrible carcinogenic blob, I assure you.

The issue with GM plants is not that you're increasing the speed at which you can select naturally occurring genes, but that you're moving genes from one species into another, and the potential environmental damage that could occur should the vector for transplanting that gene re-activate and move on to other species. Strains of weeds immune to weed-killers and pests, for example, would not only be annoying to deal with but could also seriously adversely affect the ecosystem.

EDIT: Ok, guy above knows much more than me, good on him :3

The controls and safeguards for containing GM crops and monitoring the spread of pollen and seeds have been proven to be insufficient, and GM crops have been grown adjacent to non-gm crops in the past - basically, the industry has consistently been blasé about the need to assuage fears of shit going wrong and the potentially irreparable damage that that would cause, and once the governing body fails to take responsibility activists step up and take action. This sort of thing could be moderated by thorough testing and honest, open reportage, but there's no money in prolonged tests and at the end of the day that's all these companies care about - fuck the potential consequences if there's a buck buck in it!

 

[Ghengis John]

The issue with GM plants is not that you're increasing the speed at which you can select naturally occurring genes, but that you're moving genes from one species into another, and the potential environmental damage that could occur should the vector for transplanting that gene re-activate and move on to other species. Strains of weeds immune to weed-killers and pests, for example, would not only be annoying to deal with but could also seriously adversely affect the ecosystem.

The controls and safeguards for containing GM crops and monitoring the spread of pollen and seeds have been proven to be insufficient, and GM crops have been grown adjacent to non-gm crops in the past - basically, the industry has consistently been blasé about the need to assuage fears of shit going wrong and the potentially irreparable damage that that would cause, and once the governing body fails to take responsibility activists step up and take action. This sort of thing could be moderated by thorough testing and honest, open reportage, but there's no money in prolonged tests and at the end of the day that's all these companies care about - fuck the potential consequences if there's a buck buck in it!

snip

Just quoted you here because this is an excellent post that I thought you should see, Nouw.

Excellent post btw Winky, this is the kind of discourse that people should be having about GM crops. I think people can only maintain a black or white image of many issues through a lack of understanding and this is one of them. A tip of the hat to you, sir.

 

[Wicky_42]

Excellent post btw Wicky, this is the kind of discourse that people should be having about GM crops. I think people can only maintain a black or white image of many issues through a lack of understanding and this is one of them. A tip of the hat to you, sir.

And to think I was just admiring your post up the page, lol At least there's a few of us here trying to focus on the real GM issues

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Snip

Thanks for clearing that up. So how good/bad is GM then?

Very good with the proper oversight.

And in Australia much of the policy for that oversight would be based on the research and recommendations of the CSIRO.

Because modified crops and livestock would exist out in the field and not in a vacuum there's no telling if they could serve as gateways towards introducing new diseases to unmodified crops or livestock that would be unable to cope with them. As an example of a real concern raised about the mixing of a pig and an earthworm: Pigs can get the common cold. Earthworms cannot. What happens to our soil and the ecosystem if a disease makes the jump to earthworms by the splicing and wipes them out?

That's a huge issue with transgenic GM. HUGE. Anything that can help diseases jump 'species barriers' is something to break out the brown trousers for and transgenic GM turns species barriers into swiss cheese.

And if the shape of the future is everyone pays Monsanto for seeds or people starve that's going to be a problem.

Not for Monsanto shareholders!

 

[Richardplex]

snip

I wasn't trying to imply you were like that, merely that that's the flaw in Greenpeace activists line of thinking. Incredibly badly communicated though, must work on fixing that. For the record, I basically agree with your you say, and it's highly enjoyable to read. Once again, my bad for lack of communication.

 

[Zantos]

Greenpeace doesn't seem to have a clue what they're on about most of the time. They just go for buzz words like GM or nuclear without understanding it. I keep hearing the argument that the ITER experiment in France should never be built because of the Chernobyl disaster. Which is sort of on the same lines as declaring air travel unsafe because of a train accident.

Yes, they were wrong, because breaking in and destroying property is a crime no matter what dress it's wearing. If I started a group for the liberation of technology and went around stealing TVs in order to let them free of the oppressive shop then I'd get charged for stealing and probably get a slap from the nearest person with a brain. Same diff really.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

If I started a group for the liberation of technology and went around stealing TVs in order to let them free of the oppressive shop then I'd get charged for stealing and probably get a slap from the nearest person with a brain. Same diff really.

Promise me if you ever do this, you'll be chucking them out of the windows, shouting "FLY! BE FREE!"

 

[Zantos]

If I started a group for the liberation of technology and went around stealing TVs in order to let them free of the oppressive shop then I'd get charged for stealing and probably get a slap from the nearest person with a brain. Same diff really.

Promise me if you ever do this, you'll be chucking them out of the windows, shouting "FLY! BE FREE!"

I think I can stretch to that. When I get to court it means I can use the excuse "A rhombus told me to do it." Insanity plea, here I come!

 

[Patrick Dare]

There is no evidence to support that GM foods are dangerous. These foods could help feed millions of people world wide who struggle to survive every day and it's assholes like greenpeace who hinder this research and spread unfounded claims about it being dangerous. I'm a liberal and consider myself an environmentalist but a lot of these groups like greenpeace, PETA and sea sheperd are hypocritical and exaggerate or completely make up facts to spread their anti-corporatist bullshit. Even the founder of greenpeace left the group because he felt it got away from it's original purpose to focus on politics.

 

[omega 616]

snip

The fact is everything you eat is genetically modified to some degree. You know those nice purdy, free range cows everybody goes bonkers for? Yeah, there GM. What do I mean, they parents were selectively bred to produce the results that were wanted, be it fatter cows, tougher cows etc.

If I remember right carrots were actually black before they were genetically modified by nature, they can also be selectively bred to be yellow.

Spoiler: huge ass image

People have been genetically modifying foods before we started messing round in labs. This is just a whole lot of fuss made by people who love nothing better than to ***** and moan.


EDIT: Just watch this. you have to go 1:40. The previous episode and the start of this one talk about the "bullshit" about fad diets and losing weight, from part 2 1:40 it talks about what were talking about.

 

[Ghengis John]

snip

I wasn't trying to imply you were like that, merely that that's the flaw in Greenpeace activists line of thinking. Incredibly badly communicated though, must work on fixing that. For the record, I basically agree with your you say, and it's highly enjoyable to read. Once again, my bad for lack of communication.

Oh no problem. No harm, no foul and ty. A tip of the hat to you, sir.

 

[buffalodriver87]

breaking and entering, destruction of private property
send them all to jail!!!

 

[NickCooley]

Fuck Greenpeace. Nothing but eco-terrorists and luddites. I despise any organisation that actively holds back the progress of humantiy.

 

[Vakz]

Anything Greenpeace does is wrong. They're just terrorists. The only reason they don't have a few M1A2's sitting in their living room is because they're doing it in the name of the earth instead of their deity.

This exactly. They give no thought AT ALL to the future. Humanity already has a problem with food shortage in many areas of the world, but according to greenpeace, we're not allowed to do things more effectively, because "it's not the way of nature", but NOT using GM food means we'd have to grow food on a way grander scale, which would require more areas like forests to be cut down to make room for farms, but cutting down forests is another thing Greenpeace is against. They're just hippie morons with no clue of reality.

 

[jpoon]

I'm personally against the use of GM foods, they're eventually going to fuck the human population up pretty badly. They were in the wrong for doing this but I would totally be all for them razing a Monsanto factory and their Terminator seeds. Those fuckwads need to be brough down like a ton of bricks.

Buy local fresh non-GM foods and do your body a huge favor!

 

[Hap2]

People get freaked out by GM foods not realising that we;ve been doing it for generations...


Next time someone gets up in your face about GM food ask them if they eat carrots, then ask if they're purple. If they eat orange carrots they're GM foods.

GM foods doesn't mean pumped full of chemicals and terrible doom and gloom, it just means that they are grown in a controlled way.

Source [http://www.nextnature.net/2009/08/why-are-carrots-orange-it-is-political/]

Pretty much, humanity has been directing the growth of particular strains of crops to get the best yield and quality in particular environments for a long long time. There are particular strains of wheat that have been adapted for use in colder weather climates where I live that we've been exporting for decades.

Canola for instance too, is a human developed and controlled form of rapeseed, yet the oil it produces is one of the healthier cooking oils to use for consumption.