Aight, let me do a proper reply.
Dizchu said:
They are not though. They're not claiming that transgendered people are superior (on the contrary, as I said most transgender people want to be cisgendered) nor would they implement any methods of discrimination if they had the means. They're simply (and yes, not very eloquently) voicing their frustration at a world that rejects them.
That is a fair bit of difference, assuming its true, but the sweeping, blanket statements are still very, very similar.
Two things. First of all the people saying "I hate black people" do not wish to integrate into a black-dominated society. Secondly transgender people don't get to decide how easy it is to assimilate into a cis-dominated society (which is every society, by the way). Statements such as "I hate cis people today" come as a result of being openly rejected from society by people who have no idea what struggles transgender people are going through.
And see, I actually understand and empathize with that. My issue is that you cannot make such statements publicly and expect anything good to come from it. The "punchline" of the comic that started this is that the transwomans friends responded poorly to the "I hate cis people today" comment instead of with support.
The sad thing is, most of the time transgender people have to walk on eggshells in order to gain the "approval" of cisgender people. Such behaviour is extremely exhausting but it's how "good trans people" must act. They are under constant scrutiny and when they decide enough's enough and vent their frustrations, suddenly that becomes representative of their whole group.
Walk on eggshells how?
But yes, I agree. I think what you describe is the case for almost every marginalized group. It is a sad state of affairs, but it is better to acknowledge and then act accordingly, than the alternative. The issue also isn't particularly that they cannot, for example, "vent their frustration", it is just that it has to be done in a way that the non-marginalized, non-transgender can understand and relate to.
I have been mugged by immigrants, as an example. I didn't go to facebook or twitter and write "I hate all immigrants" for two reasons:
1) Because I don't.
2) See 1)
The difference here is less of censorship and more of simply behaving like adult people. Let me stress again: I understand that there are struggles that I frankly DO NOT understand, but acting out in extremely immature and (however superficially or disingenuous) prejudiced ways DOES NOT help ANYONE.
Any friends or family that actually give a shit would be able to see beyond such frustrated language. It's like when a woman comes out of an abusive relationship and says "I hate men". Sure it's a dumb thing to say but anyone that really cared for her well-being wound reach out to her and let her vent her frustrations. Now I admit that a man coming out of such a relationship and saying "I hate women" would be met with a disproportionate amount of hostility, but that's a whole different discussion.
People say dumb things when they're upset and unless they're public figures who should be more responsible for the things they write (see the assholes that run Buzzfeed), they should be cut some slack.
Sure a familymember ought to be able to sort the bull from the shit, but what if the person writes something similar every other week? Every week? Every other day? Every day?
You have enough of listening to shit like that at some point and then you start expressing a need for respect. An expectation that is a totally fair one.
Like I've said previously in the thread: If someone in my family wrote like that on twitter, I would contact them as soon as I was able and then attempt to talk them out of writing bullshit like that, ESPECIALLY if they didn't
actually mean it; because I wouldn't stand for listening to shit like that for even one second.
You can say you are to expect people to "vent" after certain event, but that doesn't mean they should act like petulent children. I already gave the example of using less prejudice but a lot more fighting words, and you agree the result would have been overwhelming support.
I think "I hate cis people today" is a statement that should never be uttered by anyone who want to be taken seriously on anything, whereas saying things like "I fucking hate piece of shit ignorant motherfuckers who assault me for just being transgender. Fuck you, worthless bigot dickheads" is totally fine.
One is also easily identifiable as simple frustration, the latter, whereas the former is in a grey-area because the tone is neutral and it seems deliberate. Sure you may not "expect" a person to really mean it; but if they don't mean it, why express it? If they are not a child, then there is no excuse.
I think the "I hate men" vs "I hate women" is an interesting discussion also, but, like you say, is not the topic of this thread.
Of course not, but it's not like these people are saying "wow all cisgender people are exactly the same they're all terrible, I'm glad I'm not one of them".
But then why utter it at all, yeah? Because it can easily be understood that way, as well as a myriad others.
So? People aren't perfect, they succumb to frustration and anger. I've had a couple of mental breakdowns where I lashed out and refused to talk to anyone and I fully admit that it was quite harmful behaviour. But I also understand why I did it, what drove me to that point. Transgender people deal with a lot of stress on a daily basis and not everyone deals with stress in a particularly great way.
Pretty similar to earlier, I understand and empathize with that, but there are lines you just don't cross, if you expect to be taken seriously outside of fringe society.
I appreciate a good "venting"; especially with context, but you can vent in many ways; and writing "I hate all x people" is not the way of going about it.
The point I made here is that a cisgender person can just walk away unaffected, maybe they'll have a negative opinion of a person but it won't ruin their day. If a transgender person deals with transphobia, especially in public it can absolutely devastate them. Their identity is scrutinised, they're personally insulted, they are stigmatised. They can't just "walk away" and if they can it means their skin has to be ridiculously thick (or they have to be sufficiently emotionally numb). Keep in mind that statistically, transgender people are at a much higher risk of suicide than most other groups.
While I respect your point here, it is absolutely nonsensical. You agree (I think, correct me if I am wrong) that feminism has been highjacked for some more nefarious causes lately, and that there is a sentiment that blacks cannot be racist, just like women can't be sexist.
Isn't that what you're saying here?
"Because cisgender people are the overwhelming majority, you are allowed to publicly bash them, because they are the majority. They shouldn't care about your bashing, as you prove no "threat" to them anyway."
It sounds an awful lot like the "blacks can't be racist" rhetoric. If I have you all wrong and you in fact agree that blacks can't be racist, then disregard this point and just tell me, so we can drop the whole discussion outright ;-)
The KKK are an organisation with a reputation and a lot of blood on their hands. Even in modern America, black people still have to deal with stigmatisation. When a member of the Ku Kluk Klan says "I hate black people" there is a significant amount of weight and credibility behind those words.
That is fair because of the historical context, but what if it just some Jane Twat average white woman who says it?
Maybe the same thing happened to Jane Twat that happened to me. She gets clubbed in the back of the head while leaving town late one saturday night, and they steal her wallet, phone and jacket, and then she ends up spending the following day in a hospital bed. She'd probably be pretty pissed. Let's say that while she is lying on the ground bleeding and see them run away, they are black people instead of immigrants as they were in my case.
Would it be okay for her to write "I hate all black people"? It would just be "venting" after all, right?
The people that take "I hate cis people" seriously are usually taking a frustrated rant too personally. Take the woman who says "I hate men" that I brought up earlier. If one of her male friends tries to comfort her she's unlikely to say "fuck off you disgusting male", in fact it may do her a lot of good. Similarly if a cisgender person tries to comfort a trans person who lost control and had a rant about cis people, unless that trans person is a colossal douchebag they'd probably appreciate the support too.
Depending on the woman they may not be receptive to a male shoulder to cry out on, at all. I've offered my support in a few similar situations with mixed results.
Conversely, if a black person approached a member of the KKK after a racist statement and tried to relate with them... well that won't be pretty.
Hah, that is fair enough and very true.
By the way I have argued in the past that transgender people using this language is dumb and needlessly antagonistic so don't think I don't understand where you're coming from. However I wouldn't go as far as to compare... "cisphobia" (ugh) with racism or any legitimate bigotry.
I agree that those things aren't wholly comparable, but saying that cispeople should just "take it", because it is supposed to be an evident expression of frutration is very misguided, I'd say - and the exact same rhetoric used against any perceived majority or empowered group.