Oh my gosh. This person's got some ideas right here. ;pZachary Amaranth said:grassgremlin said:
The face of the journalistic revolution.
Poll: I want to change the Gamer reputation.
- Thread starter grassgremlin
- Start date
I'm full of ideas. Or full of something. People always say I'm full of "it." I think that means ideas.grassgremlin said:
MarsAtlas said:
That "somebody who playtested it" was a journalist at a gaming website who gave it good press. But there are plenty of other examples, well-documented on page one of the megathread. It was shown in the leaks from GameJournoPros (whose members compare it proudly to JournoList) that journalists and editors from ostensibly rival companies get together behind the scenes to discuss which stories to run and which ones to kill, all for the purpose of pushing a coordinated narrative. A dozen op-ed articles were released on one day from separate sites, which all said the exact same thing. If that journalistic time-on-target barrage doesn't indicate collusion I don't know what would.
You brought up the Tea Party in an earlier post. The current shitstorm also reminds me of that, but for a different reason. In the leaked email from JournoList, some reporters advocated the strategy that if anyone criticized the Democratic Party, or had questions about Obama's qualifications, do not engage them. Instead, call them racist. It was obvious even (or especially) to an outside observer, even one who didn't know about JournoList, that it eventually became the standard deflection. When JournoList was exposed journalists were fired, or they resigned before they could get fired. When the same thing happens in gaming, the journalists involved just shrugged and wondered what the big deal was. Genuine ignorance of "what the big deal is" would be bad enough, but it's even worse to imagine the alternative: They know that journalists are not supposed to collude, but they feel it's OK if they do it because they're on the right side.
If you see nothing wrong with that, as the GJP's themselves seem to, imagine if they engaged in the exact same behavior on behalf of the right (e.g. engineering a moral panic over violence and nihilism, rather than misogyny). If that still doesn't convince you then nothing will.
As for the topic of this thread: The only way to effectively police who does and doesn't get into the new hashtag, or forum, or whatever, would require people to forfeit their anonymity - Thus crippling the movement before it begins. And GamerGate supporters have done plenty to try and prove that the harassers are a small number of people who just wear the hashtag when they want to stir up shit. Exposing a clickbait gaming "journalist" in Brazil as a major source of the death threats to Anita Sarkeesian. Consistent condemnation of chickenshit death threats has become routine, and it has made no difference at all in the eyes of the press. That's why I hold out so little hope that a separate group might accomplish anything at all. The media will say "You're just a whitewashed version of those GamerGate misogynerds", and you can provide all the hard evidence to the contrary that you want, they will not change their story.
Oh, thank you. I'll send you my skype information if he wants to talk to me further about it.Not The Bees said:Wanted to let you know, my husband would be willing to help create the website. He wouldn't be able to do the graphics, but he can at least code it and create it.grassgremlin said:Oh my gosh. This person's got some ideas right here. ;pZachary Amaranth said:grassgremlin said:
The face of the journalistic revolution.
Like i said this my first time in doing site development, but I'm willing to put as much work as I can into it.
What would be a good way for you, through messaging here? or email.
I get you, I wanted to join too and I told a handful of people what I wanted to do. I was even planning on making a twitter just to start a new hashtag. I was going to call it #OpenGame and #OpenGamers, allowing for all that journalistic integrity while also permitting personal opinions on reviews for these sites. We should DEFINITELY want to reform what a gamer is and does by calling out poor actions and admitting it has been here for quite some time. Also, maybe assert an ever so slight pressure on major developers by stating something along the lines of many within our ranks that wish to have more diverse story telling and experiences and we are willing for them not to blow out so much on graphics and other things. And keep the interest of the casual gamer, the ones who rarely if ever browse forums like these, at a high priority so that they aren't lied to or exploited by anyone.
Other hashtag idea#DeadGamersSociety eh probably, not, that one may be counter productive to what we want and many won't take the name.
EDIT: I suppose we should also get others to support this, but really only those tied to gaming. The reason I know that movement smells funny to me is becuase of who supports it that I consider people who have no interest in games including a Voice for Men, RoK, Breitbart, and many conservative sites and personalities. Our hashtag should only be for gamers, sure, people outside I guess can support us, but recognize that what we are doing IS NOT focused on the ever so infuriating internet "debate" between modern feminists and modern anti-feminists.
Other hashtag idea
EDIT: I suppose we should also get others to support this, but really only those tied to gaming. The reason I know that movement smells funny to me is becuase of who supports it that I consider people who have no interest in games including a Voice for Men, RoK, Breitbart, and many conservative sites and personalities. Our hashtag should only be for gamers, sure, people outside I guess can support us, but recognize that what we are doing IS NOT focused on the ever so infuriating internet "debate" between modern feminists and modern anti-feminists.
You're right. If you're not interested in gaming in the slightest, you shouldn't be involved with this.Skatologist said:
It's for gamers by gamers. And I mean that as in "those who play video games regularly" and not the other things.
Talking to @notthebees about webdesign and am accepting any help we can get.
Sexiness. You're full of sexiness. That's what they mean, ZachZachary Amaranth said:
OP: I sympathize with the sentiment, but I think it may be "to soon" to do something like this. People hurt by this whole controversy will be a lot less willing to listen to what you have to say until things begin to die down, imo.
My suggestion?
Support Boogie2988 #EndtheHate hashtag.
The guy is neutral/leans pro-GamerGate, but his primary goal in all of this is to get a peaceful resolution for this fustercluck. Hell, most GGers I've talked with support the guy.
Still, at this point any hashtag that starts calling for more ethics in game journalism is going to get attacked and demonized by Gawker et al.
Support Boogie2988 #EndtheHate hashtag.
The guy is neutral/leans pro-GamerGate, but his primary goal in all of this is to get a peaceful resolution for this fustercluck. Hell, most GGers I've talked with support the guy.
Still, at this point any hashtag that starts calling for more ethics in game journalism is going to get attacked and demonized by Gawker et al.
But you don't really offer that choice if you bring people like Matt Lees and Jim Sterling into the boat. They have dismissed those kinds of ethical problems more then once by now, instead deflecting the problem by pointing elsewhere.grassgremlin said:
Again, I completely agree about sex scandals, and that's kind of the entire point. It's not that most of the people in GamerGate want more sex scandals to be reported on, rather, the situation was so jarring that it called a lot more attention to the kind of tabloid journalism rampant in games journalism. And I'm sorry, but reporting on unconfirmed allegations of harassment and potentially ruining someone's professional life is nothing short of despicable. That's tabloid journalism at its worst. Even if you print a clarification, the damage is already done. Not that anyone bothered to print clarifications.
If Gamergate were to take their approach to journalism, they would have won already.lax4life said:Weekly World News is the most reliable news source in the world. They uncovered Bin Laden YEARS before the US government.
And don't you forget it!Fappy said:Sexiness. You're full of sexiness. That's what they mean, Zach
Rather than saying you're doing a movement, you should come up with a good plan that people can join in.
#GamerGate's plan was to use the twitter to get past the censorship and show that something is going on with gaming journalists.
OperationisrecpetfulNod is a way to make the advertisers aware how their partners are behaving.
#NotYourShield was started to show that people against press were not solely white-cis-male.
Think in that spirit.
Also, I have to disagree on #GamerGate being "tainted", just so that we're clear.
#GamerGate's plan was to use the twitter to get past the censorship and show that something is going on with gaming journalists.
Operation
isrecpetfulNod is a way to make the advertisers aware how their partners are behaving.#NotYourShield was started to show that people against press were not solely white-cis-male.
Think in that spirit.
Also, I have to disagree on #GamerGate being "tainted", just so that we're clear.
Nope, sorry. Your origins are in trying to discard the negative press associated with GamerGate. Therefore you are GamerGate under a new guise and made entirely of cis white male misogynist virgin neckbearded shitlords.grassgremlin said:
Now, I don't actually believe that statement, but that is *exactly* how you will be painted by the press.
The GamerGate side will likely paint you as a shill seeking to divide and conquer, who supports the press and accordingly supports cronyism, journalists ignoring that there's supposed to be a divide between themselves and their subjects, flip-flopping between being "journalists" and "bloggers" depending on whether they need the air of credibility or an excuse for their behavior in the moment (a variant of the Fox News defense), etc, etc, etc.
Of course, what will you do if a person engaging in the behaviors you take issue with is a woman? You can't say anything negative about a woman, or else you are the aforementioned misogynistic shitlords above, and have proved that you are just a renamed GamerGate trying to hide the fact that it's really about hating women. Criticism is harassment, not immediately listening and believing something said by a woman is misogyny. Since you disagreed with a woman, that means you hate that woman, and by extension all women, misogynistic shitlords.
Also, if you could do GamerGate a huge favor and tell them how you intend to prevent everyone on the internet from misbehaving in your name, that'd be immensely useful. Just because you explicitly claim you will not harass women and do not condone it doesn't mean that a Goon or GNAA idiot won't in your name. Just because you say you don't approve of or condone it doesn't mean you don't approve of or condone it, it just means you are lying about it, misogynistic shitlords.
You want to maybe have people interested start a group here first? I'm game for starting one just to get better organization. I know dragonfafa has had one for GG for quite some time and would be completely fine being owner of my own, if I had the slightest bit of an idea on how to organize. Maybe you could do it or see another group owner on specifics.grassgremlin said:
Also, #EndTheHate as a conjunction would be fine with me. Just no #StopGamerGate2014, that, although seems like a bit of our intention, is not worth doing just to make enemies.
It won't work. Like many said, this new "movement" will be tarred with the same brush as soon as they uncover something "inconvenient".
It happened with Gamergate, it will happen again here.
Step 1: Some people band together in the hopes of making people personally accountable for shitty behaviour.
Step 2: The people under scrutiny will get their pals to mock the critics and call them "misogynists" and "straight white males" (they should just start using the acronym SWM as their version of SJW).
Step 3: Some third parties will make death threats to cause drama or maybe to gain publicity.
Step 4: The new movement will be called "Gamergate 2.0", if it gets any attention it'll be slandered on every website you can think of.
Step 5: People will call it a lost cause and make "Gamergate 3.0" but "let's do it properly this time!"
When your target is journalists not taking responsibility for their actions and the coverage comes from these same people, you bet your ass the movement will be misrepresented. It's like Fox News' attitude towards Muslims, gays and atheists. "They'll all aggressive people that are trying to make life hard for us, boo hoo".
I'm not even 8chan's biggest fan, I tend not to go to Gamergate-centric places like 8chan and THE MONSTER GG THREAD because they end up devolving into conspiracy theories (SOCIAL MARXISM OMG), but credit where credit's due ya know?
It happened with Gamergate, it will happen again here.
Step 1: Some people band together in the hopes of making people personally accountable for shitty behaviour.
Step 2: The people under scrutiny will get their pals to mock the critics and call them "misogynists" and "straight white males" (they should just start using the acronym SWM as their version of SJW).
Step 3: Some third parties will make death threats to cause drama or maybe to gain publicity.
Step 4: The new movement will be called "Gamergate 2.0", if it gets any attention it'll be slandered on every website you can think of.
Step 5: People will call it a lost cause and make "Gamergate 3.0" but "let's do it properly this time!"
When your target is journalists not taking responsibility for their actions and the coverage comes from these same people, you bet your ass the movement will be misrepresented. It's like Fox News' attitude towards Muslims, gays and atheists. "They'll all aggressive people that are trying to make life hard for us, boo hoo".
This is absolutely untrue. Efforts have been made in the community and by the moderators to erase any leaked info on Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu or whoever the flavour of the week is. The epic tale of the occasion when the mods were asleep and an anon leaked information on Zoe Quinn for example... It resulted in the community banding together to flood the boards with spam until the information got pushed off the site. It indicates a very serious and cooperative stance AGAINST doxxing and harassment if you ask me.MarsAtlas said:
I'm not even 8chan's biggest fan, I tend not to go to Gamergate-centric places like 8chan and THE MONSTER GG THREAD because they end up devolving into conspiracy theories (SOCIAL MARXISM OMG), but credit where credit's due ya know?