Poll: Is abortion murder?

[Loop Stricken]

Lump of cells. Rip it out as one would a cancer.

Edit: Amusingly the poll results look like a penis.

 

[ShadowKatt]

Until it becomes sentient I don't class it as a human. It is most definetely not murder in my opinion.

I've heard several people throw around the term sentience, and I'm not picking on you, just using you as an example. But we don't have a clear cut definition for sentience. As of yet it is a purely philosophical entity, open to interpretation of the person at the moment. You can't base an arguement on an ever changing basis of evalutation.

 

[Elephant Walker19]

i think a abortion is ok IF the woman was raped so she won't have a child to look at and remember that time.

ITS NOT RIGHT FOR A WOMAN WHO GOES CLUBING EVERY DAY TO FUCK EVERY MAN IN PLAIN SIGHT TO GET ONE JUST BECAUSE SHE IS A IRRESPONSIBLE WHORE,WHO WON'T FACE THE CONSEQUENCES OF HER ACTIONS.

So you'd punish the child by allowing it to be born to an irresponsible mother?

1.she can put it up for adoption

2.killing it is more punishment

yes i've considered that the child might turn out its mom or learn the mistakes of living like its mom like i did and be a better man/woman for it.

 

[RMcD94]

Lump of cells. Rip it out as one would a cancer.

Edit: Amusingly the poll results look like a penis.

I voted simply to see if it did. (See: my last post) Voted no simply because I'm for legalising abortion.

 

[Felated Show Pony]

Technically, it's not alive, so no.

How is it now alive? Did you know that by week 4 the baby already has a heart and a circulatory system?

Yes, but it's not "complete." Also, some could probably get an abortion before week 4.

But that's not the point, the point is that it is a person in development. As for the argument made before about putting animals down. They're animals. Not people. There is a HUGE difference. A fetus is a person in the making.

honestly, this is the biggest problem with christians. they have a completely naive belief in the importance of human beings. humans are animals. you are not different, you are not fucking special, you are not a magic star child.

and by your own reckoning, differing definitions of life make this argument pointless. and people are not just going to cede their argument to some different definition of life, on either side, ever.

 

[RMcD94]

Technically, it's not alive, so no.

How is it now alive? Did you know that by week 4 the baby already has a heart and a circulatory system? And the heart starts beating by week 5?

If it was taken out of the mother it would die. So technically it isn't human or anything viable for that matter. It is not murder. Once the baby can survive outside of the mother it becomes illegal to abort or kill because that point it does become murder.

I assume you are pro-murdering people who are in comas then? Since they are not independent and require other people to survive. Actually, pro killing anyone who couldn't survive independently?

 

[Eldarion]

You could give me some argument about weather or not a fetus is "alive" at what stage, but since that is a matter of opinion rather than scientific fact and my opinion is that its alive from the start then abortion is in my view of the concept murder.

Because you'd have to show how something lacking sentience or consciousness is 'alive'.

Prove to me that it in fact lacks sentience or consciousness(you can't). Thats assuming I accept those as qualifications for life.

Here you go [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_debate#Fetal_pain_debate].

The foetus can't even feel pain until the third trimester. I think a large part of the problem here is that anti-abortionists are seeing 'consciousness' as a meta-physical thing, like the soul, which it isn't. Consciousness requires a well-formed brain and since pain receptors aren't even formed by 24 weeks we can presume complex reasoning isn't either.

Weather or not it can feel pain isn't proof for or against consciousness. I never said it had to have consciousness for me to consider it alive either, so your arguing something totally irrelevant to this conversation. I'm not having that argument.

The fact is that a fetus in any stage is a person in development. Terminating a persons life at any stage is murder in my book. Thats how I feel about it.

Why exactly do you all feel so strongly for a womans right to abort a fetus anyway? What gives anyone that right? A woman has a right to choose weather or not she has a baby, but I say she made that choice when she had sex. Even with birth control you are still risking pregnancy, even if by less than 1% chance. Why have sex if you can't accept the consequences of your actions? Thats what the pro abortion stance is. Its just enabling bad judgement. After all why should you have to deal with the consequences of your decisions right?

There are a few exceptions, rape or if the birth threatens the life of the mother I can understand. But if you are gonna have sex you need to accept the very real possibility that you are gonna have a baby on your hands. Aborting a potential life because of the mothers poor judgement isn't something I can get behind.

 

[Ham_authority95]

Edit: Amusingly the poll results look like a penis.

Ha, Nice one.

 

[Yoshemo]

Late term abortion is murder. But before that, it isn't

 

[TehCookie]

If it could live outside the mother it's murder, otherwise it's just removing a parasite.

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

I personally think it is murder. Lumps of flesh don't have ears and eyes, and they don't swallow and have the ability to kick you while in the womb.

If they have eyes and ears and can kick the foetus is too far along for abortion to be legal unless the mother's life is in danger. That argument does not hold water. Elaborate.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

No.

 

[Omnific One]

3rd trimester abortion is murder; otherwise, nope.

Edit: Though I'd say it should be reserved mainly for rape or danger to the mother for the second trimester, and third trimester abortion should be reserved for a situation that would present an imminent threat of death to the mother.

 

[RMcD94]

There are a few exceptions, rape or if the birth threatens the life of the mother I can understand.

Using your argument, explain why these are morally acceptable exceptions?

 

[BGH122]

Why exactly do you all feel so strongly for a womans right to abort a fetus anyway? What gives anyone that right? A woman has a right to choose weather or not she has a baby, but I say she made that choice when she had sex. Even with birth control you are still risking pregnancy, even if by less than 1% chance. Why have sex if you can't accept the consequences of your actions? Thats what the pro abortion stance is. Its just enabling bad judgement. After all why should you have to deal with the consequences of your decisions right?

Woah! This isn't about 'wimmin's rights', I don't think (bar rape) any woman should have the right to abort a foetus unless the father signs off on it too (and whoever refuses to sign off on the abortion has the duty to raise the child). This is about what it means to be alive. So far you've provided no more of an argument than "it's alive because that's my opinion" and that's just invalid. Saying "that's my opinion" is less than worthless in a debate since the purpose of a debate is to ascertain an agreed-upon truth which two originally disagreeing parties can agree upon.

So you judge human life as sacred at any stage? What about a murderer? Or a genocidal maniac? What's qualitatively different about these people that allows them to be killed and dodge the 'human life at any stage of development should be protected' rule? Try and be precise, moral laws always ought to be precise so that they can be accurately enforced.

 

[Eldarion]

There are a few exceptions, rape or if the birth threatens the life of the mother I can understand.

Using your argument, explain why these are morally acceptable exceptions?

In the case of the mothers life being threatened, I just feel the life of a person is worth more than a potential person. That does not mean its acceptable if the mother life isn't in danger.

Rape causes permanent psychological harm, probably even more harm if the mother has to deliver the baby. Again its the mothers health over the babys.

Under any other circumstance, why should a mother be allowed to decide the fate of a potential person when it poses no threat to her?

 

[Gigano]

No. Nothing which possess any personality or selfawareness (at least beyond a pig) is lost.

As Singer so rightly said: Digging up an acorn is not the same as felling an oak.

 

[RMcD94]

For those who claim late abortion is illegal, but early abortion is. Please, please, please, give me an exact time (talking down to the planck [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units]), where on one side of that time it's okay to murder, and on the other side it isn't.

Please point that out to me.

 

[L1gh7Sp33d]

Where is the exact point at which it is not okay to abort anymore?

I personally find it is kinda strange to accept a position in which "it is okay to abort as long as the fetus has not developed past such and such phase."

Edit: Well what do you know someone stated that same thing as me

 

[Foxbat Flyer]

I personally think it is murder. Lumps of flesh don't have ears and eyes, and they don't swallow and have the ability to kick you while in the womb.

Its not murder.

98% of fetus's are aborted well before 20 weeks, and most before 10. Its not until 24 weeks that brain function has a probability of existing (some start slightly later or earlier but not by much).

Before that its no different than killing a tumor. Its just cellular growth. If you play the "what it is going to be" card, then masturbation is mass genocide.

Science. Listen well children. It works bitches.

Bravo!!! you hit the nail on the head!

OT: If you havent worked out, i dont believe that abortion is murder, besides, in most cases the mother is either extreemly poor, and thus bringing a child up in this environment may lead to the death of more than just the baby (her having to work long hours for money, not enough money for food after rent and electricity/water)