Poll: Is Halo a generic shooter?

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Chechosaurus

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I suppose something that effectively created its own strand of an entire genre could be could generic... Fact of the matter is, Halo isn't really a clone of anything that preceded it but rather a template for a lot of things that came after it. I personally can't think of many shooters that follow a Halo style at all. a brightly coloured super-solider fighting jet-packing dinosaurs in space is hardly generic.
 

Dastardly

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tlozoot said:
I see a lot of people on these forums bandy around one term: "Another generic, brown shooter."

Quite apart from this being an overused line that lost all trappings of originality and humour it might of originally had, I think it's often misused.

Whenever a discussion of Halo arises I see the criticism "It's just another generic, brown shooter." I find this hard to swallow personally. For one Halo is not brown. Halo is bright and colourful compared to many games of the generation.

Is Halo generic? Of course it is, but not in the derrogatory way people often refer to it as. Generic, after all, simply means as pertaining to a genre. Halo is indeed generic in that it carries the hallmarkrs of the first person shooter genre, but does it deviate from the established traits of the genre enough to be called out as 'generic'?

Firs, what do you think are the established traits of an FPS that must be deviated from for a game to avoid the shame of 'being generic'?

Secondly, do you think Halo has enough elements to deviate from these established points?

Lastly, bearing the above points in mind, do you think Halo is any more 'generic' than any shooter you think isn't? Generic compared to Call of Duty? Medal of Honour? Battlefield? Half Life? Team Fortress?

As a side-discussion, do you think that being generic is actually a bad thing? Is a game that does nothing new, yet does everything very well, not still a good game, despite not doing anything particularly different?
It is innovative in that a dish that uses exotic vegetables with rice is different from a dish that uses meat with rice. It is "generic" in that it is still a rice-based dish. Halo added some interesting and different details, but it did add them to a particularly well-formed mold. It did have a somewhat stronger narrative than other FPS games at the time, but that isn't necessarily innovation.
 

Assassin Xaero

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I once asked someone why Halo was so great, and everything he named was from Quake II. So yes, Halo is generic in my eyes.
 

Flame Sama

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I don't understand how other games copying Halo makes Halo the generic one. Is it generic in a lot of aspects? Yes. The story for example-very terrible. But the Forge mode and the multiplayer change up enough to keep it interesting-I don't see how you can play Halo CE, then Halo 3, and then Halo 2, and then Halo Reach and not miss a beat, they all play extremely different, coming from someone with over ten thousand games played online between 3 and Reach...

ODST was a fart, nothing more should really be said about it. It's the St. Anger of Halo games as far as I'm concerned.
 

Legendsmith

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Fluse said:
Arkley said:
Zhukov said:
Two weapon capacity. The melee button. And, yes, regenerating health.
The "grenade" button was also pioneered by Halo. Previously, you had to switch to a seperate weapon to throw grenades, just like you had to switch to melee weapons.

Vehicles that you could enter, drive and leave at will had not been done before - vehicle sections were precisely that; vehicle sections.

Such expansive, outdoor areas with multiple methods for approaching your target had not been done before.

And also, as you pointed out, two weapons, melee button and regenerating health.

Halo really did lead the way in its time.
Try and look up Starsiege: Tribes, a game released 3 years before Halo Combat Evolved. Or Tibes2 released the same year as Halo Combat Evolved.

Vehicles that you could enter, drive and leave at will - check

expansive, outdoor areas with multiple methods for approaching your target - check

And as far as i remember, you where limited to a 2 weapon + melee + granades setup. main weapon + side arm. altho, it is a long time ago so im only 90% on that one.

that leaves you with a granade button and a health bar modification, not exactly a revolution if you ask me.
Pretty much this. People just don't realise that there were innovative FPS games before Halo.
Example:
 

josemlopes

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In HALO:CE, the first time you drove the Warthog into the tunnels in the second level, tell me if it was generic? You even had the rest of the ring in the sky to watch.

Also, you had a great variety of scenery, and you had also a good amount of vehicles. In its time generic would be if the game was the first level over and over.
 

Iwata

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Halo is the very definition of a generic shooter. Does that mean I hate or dislike it? No.
 
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I might be a bit biased but bear with me:

When the first one came out it was actually fairly off the rails, largely responsible for the weapon carrying limitation and not having to change weapons to melee and throw grenades. It also had copious amounts of driving which a lot of games didn't have, also the friendly NPCs were useful and reasonably competant.

The second game didn't innovate a lot and kept to the same standards. In my mind the best was getting to play as the Arbiter, it was a big surprise and something I genuinely enjoyed, partly because I theorized that he and the Chief would go toe to toe against each other. The friendly AI was a bit better and you could give them more effective weapons, which made things more interesting when you could "build" a tailor-made squad.

Halo 3 didn't do much different but it's just so fucking fun.

ODST was different, it was darker, at night-time anyway, and reasonably difficult to the extent that some minor skirmishes could feel like desperate pitched battles.

Reach, like Halo 3 didn't do much different, but again it's just good old fun.

I don't mind if it's generic, as long as I enjoy it.
 

josemlopes

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Fluse said:
Arkley said:
Zhukov said:
Two weapon capacity. The melee button. And, yes, regenerating health.
The "grenade" button was also pioneered by Halo. Previously, you had to switch to a seperate weapon to throw grenades, just like you had to switch to melee weapons.

Vehicles that you could enter, drive and leave at will had not been done before - vehicle sections were precisely that; vehicle sections.

Such expansive, outdoor areas with multiple methods for approaching your target had not been done before.

And also, as you pointed out, two weapons, melee button and regenerating health.

Halo really did lead the way in its time.
Try and look up Starsiege: Tribes, a game released 3 years before Halo Combat Evolved. Or Tibes2 released the same year as Halo Combat Evolved.

Vehicles that you could enter, drive and leave at will - check

expansive, outdoor areas with multiple methods for approaching your target - check

And as far as i remember, you where limited to a 2 weapon + melee + granades setup. main weapon + side arm. altho, it is a long time ago so im only 90% on that one.

that leaves you with a granade button and a health bar modification, not exactly a revolution if you ask me.
But was Starsiege generic? Hell no, so just because some features are present in both games that means that the one that came out later is the most generic thing on earth.

No, generic is when there is just too much of something to call it new. Like the last Medal of Honor. They could avoid being generic if they decided to keep WW2, since now no one does WW2 games. I serioulsy dont understand why the hell they made MOH in the present.
 

Wintermoot

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storie wise? yes
gameplay wise FUCK NO
how much does the fanbase care about the story? not a flying carp, in other words another generic shooter #707
 

e.wlmo4

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A few years ago it came off as generic however Modern Warfare and Gears are now what everyone is trying to copy and because Halo is still in the same space it was in before it's the only game in that part of the shooter spectrum and doesn't come off as generic anymore.
 

firemark

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Arkley said:
The first Halo was not generic. It was a trailblazer, a genre definer for its generation. Hell, if it hadn't been as popular as it was, it would probably be looked upon as one of the greatest accomplishments of the 128 bit consoles. But, no. It was loved by the mainstream, and spawned a franchise. So the same people who extoll the virtues of Goldeneye 64 also condemn Halo, even though, in the long run, Halo: CE did far more for console shooters and tried many more new things. By today's standards it can certainly be called generic, but only because so many of the unique aspects it pioneered have been copied so endlessly ever since.

The second Halo couldn't have been called generic at the time - it was still arguably the best of its kind when it was released - but it was the beginning of what would become the Halo strategy: minimal changes, no new innovation. However, it was a technically superior game to the first, it did attempt a couple of new things and, most importantly, it succeeded at online console play like nothing before it.

Halo 3 is where the accusations of genericism start to gain weight. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's a fine game - critics certainly seemed to like it - but it continued to lack new innovation. This was largely excused at the time because "omgnextgenhalo!". The trails blazed by Halo: CE were commonplace in shooters now. Halo 3 was, technically, proficient in all areas. It was almost certainly better than its immediate competition. But no one can argue that the series wasn't beginning to stagnate as early as its third entry.

Halo ODST is probably the most divisive of the lot, excluding Halo Wars. It attempted some new things, but the new things it attempted weren't any good. Everything else was the same as ever. The multiplayer offered nothing significantly new, the campaign was too short, it was dull, it should have been a $15 expansion for Halo 3.

And then there was Reach. A Halo game that added very little that was new, and the stuff that was new barely affected the unchanged gameplay at all. You might point out that Halo "has bright colours", but since when has graphical style excused stagnant gameplay? Of course, I suppose I can't criticise it too much, I mean, the thing sold like...well, like a Halo title. And yet, while nothing worth a damn has changed, it's still fun. A lot of fun, especially with friends.

Halo is a game series with five major titles released over almost a decade that has barely changed at all since the 2001 original. It is a game with a silent space marine protagonist who shoots aliens with big guns, and takes place in a universe where humanity is at war with an alien alliance. It is a game with regenerating shields, a two-weapon limit and run&gun gameplay.

Yes, it is generic. There is no argument here - it is the very best example of a generic shooter. If I wanted to show someone an example of a generic shooter, I would show them Halo.

That doesn't mean it isn't good.
I feel that everything you said must be repeated as you said it, but I do want to add a few of my own beliefs in as well. I want to leave your initial comment entirely intact so I will simply list my comments under the titles of the games: Halo: CE, Halo 2, Halo 3, ODST, and Reach; corresponding with your paragraph format.

Halo: CE - The only reason it feels generic nowadays is because it was genre defining. I loved games like Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, but Halo: CE really changed the playing field. Considering it was initially supposed to be for Mac, the adjustments Bungie made to transform it into the console version were incredible and the final product revolutionary. They worked to make a FPS that originally was intended to use a mouse and made it work, quite well, with a controller. In fact, I would say that this was one of it's largest contributions to the FPS world, the controller scheme. It's too good! Everything else feels like it, and conversely, it feels like every other FPS. It is generic, but only because the rest of the genre uses so much of the foundation it laid.

Halo 2 - This game was nothing too groundbreaking as far as the actual gameplay, primarily because it focused on polishing the rough edges that were in Halo: CE. It added the concept of dual-wielding (in my mind perfected by Perfect Dark) and it revolutionized online multiplayer! Does the campaign and overall feel of the game make it generic, yes. However, the entire reason that FPS are as popular online as they are today is because of Halo 2. In this way I think it deserves more credit, sure it didn't change a whole lot of the campaign experience, sure the story was a little predictable, but it did create a solid game that gave millions of people the experience of playing online as they never had before.

Halo 3 - Because I was a Gamecube man during the Xbox era I missed out on owning the first 2 Halo's. It was also because of Halo 3 that I decided to buy a 360 as my first new generation console. (I now own all three so don't give me crap about being a fanboy). Halo 3 in my opinion was the most lackluster of the original trilogy. The story was fairly bland and the overall feel of the gameplay did not change much from the first two. That said, Halo 3 has presented me with some of the most fun gaming moments in my life. Whether it was playing doubles online or beating the final level with four other people to get the achievement I needed to get RECON armor. We were up til 3 in the morning yelling at each other in our headsets making sure we all made it and stayed alive. Did it change the gaming community like the first two? No. In that way it is very generic; but it polished the gems that were the first two and will be around for many years to come because of it's smooth controls and excellent online play. I'll give it one thing, it added the Equipment option which changed the feel of the gameplay somewhat, but not enough to pull it out of the generic realm it falls in.

ODST - Yeah...I want to pretend this didn't happen. Story: awful, Gameplay: Unchanged (Bungie called it Halo 3: ODST for a reason, it's a 5 hour expansion pack with additional maps), Overall feel: I borrowed my friend's copy, beat it and returned it the same day.

Reach - I'm going to try to explain my feelings about Reach in different terms. I really love the move The Boondock Saints, it is awesome! For those of you that don't know it, it was a huge cult classic and a really original movie that choose not to follow the standard path of action movies of the time. Recently, after many years Boondock Saints 2: All Saints Day came out. I watched it, excited to finally see more about the characters that were so well developed in the first movie. Instead I got a rather mediocre movie that felt like nothing had changed since the first. There were many call backs to the original characters, similar flashbacks and even a song including a guy that had died in the first movie. All of this just made me miss the original movie and remember why I loved it so much. Then I realized, that was the point! The point of the second was a fanfare for the original. Sure it shed a little light on some of the character's history, but it was nothing new, nothing ground breaking. It was a giant shiny polished mirror that reflected all that was good about the first movie with some minor tweaks and back story.

This is the same way I feel about Reach. It is one giant reflection of all that fans loved about the Halo series as a whole. It was an encore, a salute, a celebration, complete with callbacks to old characters, including the fanboy favorite: a tiny clip of Master Chief (I'm not calling spoiler alert for that, if you're on this thread you better know it already, if not I don't apologize). The combat has changed with the inclusion of armor abilities, too similar to the perks in the COD series to be considered anything new, but it did change the strategy of online play. The pistol is back from Halo: CE. The multiplayer has improved it's matchmaking while keeping the same feel that Halo 2 had. The graphics look better than Halo 3. The overall experience is one giant polished gem on top of the Halo (yeah I couldn't resist). Is it generic? Yes. But when you come from the roots of something that defined a genre as a whole, I can understand why they didn't change the formula around too much.
 

Eldritch Warlord

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Hardcore_gamer said:
Timesplitters by comparison was released over a decade ago before Halo 1 was even out.
2001 - 2000 > 10 ?

Woodsey said:
katsumoto03 said:
It's only generic because every FPS has tried to copy it since Halo: CE.
Every? You must be 'avin' a laugh guv.
I'd rather like to see people who say this back it up. The only example I can think of is BioShock. Even Half-Life 2 shows some inspiration from Halo in it's emphasis of open terrain and vehicles.
 

The Lunatic

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Grey_Focks said:
Cingal said:
I can't see how anyone could say it isn't.
A different opinion ofcourse, but more importantly, how the hell do you have almost five thousand posts after just joining in june? that's a thousand posts per month! I don't know whether to be impressed or afraid.
Oh, I'm part of a very active user group, posts in user groups contribute towards your total post count.

My posts on the forums number no more than 150.
 

Skeleton Jelly

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Halo is, but that's because it set the base for every future shooter. Well it certainly helped mold the suture of FPS' anyways. But I have to say, there's hardly much difference between 2 and 3.

But with Reach, it really does fix that substantially. It doesn't have brand new innovative gameplay or anything, but it certainly has a lot more spice and flare now. Not to mention not EVERY game has to innovate something. It just needs to be fun. And personally, I've always enjoyed the Halo series.

It is over-rated though.
 

ZeroMachine

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Hardcore_gamer said:
katsumoto03 said:
It's only generic because every FPS has tried to copy it since Halo: CE.
The only mechanic that has been copied over and over is the regenerating health. I haven't seen anything else from Halo being copied in many games.
Two weapons only, a seperate button for grenades instead of having them be their own weapon, maybe weapon overheating and motion-activated radar, too. And, as someone pointed out, the melee button.

I'm not sure about those last two, but the first two, definitely. Even if it was done before Halo, big developers only started going "oh, that works" after Halo.

Now, I'm a huuuuge Halo fan, but I'm not one of the people that says it doesn't have it's faults, so don't get me wrong. It's just that you're either in denial or oblivious to other things that games have copied from Halo. Even if they were in games before Halo, they REALLY got noticed when Halo sold like legalized crack, so Halo is to blame/give credit to.
 

savandicus

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When the first halo game came out it was massively inovative, it did alot of things well for the first time. There was really nothing quite like it at the time. By the time halo 2 and 3 had come out, they were practically identical to the first and many other companies had seen halos success and started copying it.

Original halo wasnt generic, the other 2 were, not that they were bad or anything they just didnt do anything new.
 

Badabukavich

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savandicus said:
When the first halo game came out it was massively inovative, it did alot of things well for the first time. There was really nothing quite like it at the time. By the time halo 2 and 3 had come out, they were practically identical to the first and many other companies had seen halos success and started copying it.

Original halo wasnt generic, the other 2 were, not that they were bad or anything they just didnt do anything new.
This was basically what i was about to say.
 

Hippobatman

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manythings said:
Back in the day? It was just a run-and-gun shooter, I enjoyed my time with it sure. It had melee, good multiplayer and some fine action. It wasn't that generic.

Now? I would call Halo THE generic shooter since 95% of shooters are endeavouring to be halo.
Wouldn't that make Halo less generic?

I mean, since Halo: CE revolutionized the FPS genre in 2001, and, by your words, now the majority of the games try to copy CE. That makes the other games generic, no? Since all they do is copy from something that is already known, popular and published?

Catching my logic train here?

What I will say, is that Halo hasn't done much to shape up the formula, just take the existing model and added plot. It's still a good model though.
 

Woodsey

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Eldritch Warlord said:
Hardcore_gamer said:
Timesplitters by comparison was released over a decade ago before Halo 1 was even out.
2001 - 2000 > 10 ?

Woodsey said:
katsumoto03 said:
It's only generic because every FPS has tried to copy it since Halo: CE.
Every? You must be 'avin' a laugh guv.
I'd rather like to see people who say this back it up. The only example I can think of is BioShock. Even Half-Life 2 shows some inspiration from Halo in it's emphasis of open terrain and vehicles.
I'm pretty sure Halo didn't invent vehicle sections.