Poll: Is higher education worth it?
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europe has some pretty socialistic ideas about supporting students, so its definately worth it here.
In the US I'm not so sure, I heard you gotta pay it all yourself and its way more expensive over there too.
dont know for sure, can anyone confirm this?
In the US I'm not so sure, I heard you gotta pay it all yourself and its way more expensive over there too.
dont know for sure, can anyone confirm this?
I want to work in engineering. To do that I need an engineering degree.
If it means I get to do a job I'll actually enjoy, then I would charge into the assembled hordes of Mordor.
If it means I get to do a job I'll actually enjoy, then I would charge into the assembled hordes of Mordor.
Very much so. Let me tell you a small story (dont worry very small)
Once there was this boy who started working on a building site when he was 15. He saw on that site that the only people who did not do heavy lifting were the engineers. He decided to try for this because he didnt want to end up crippled in later life like other men he knew. Then the boy got sick. He was out of school for 2 years and went back and finished in a year. He was not told what subjects he needed to get a degree and had to go to an I.T. once he completed after that he was accepted into a university but couldnt go. He got a job using his diploma. Now a man he is back finishing his degree by night. Once it is complete he will be able to earn much better money with less hours and can look forward to a better pension.
Short story shorter, you can do anything you want once you have that bit of paper. Using it generally makes you more money and you have more career prospects. It does take hard work but in the long run it is very much so worth it. You can go abroad and use it or use it to do other courses.
It might only be a bit of paper and it does not mean you are cleverer than others but it does give you more options.
Once there was this boy who started working on a building site when he was 15. He saw on that site that the only people who did not do heavy lifting were the engineers. He decided to try for this because he didnt want to end up crippled in later life like other men he knew. Then the boy got sick. He was out of school for 2 years and went back and finished in a year. He was not told what subjects he needed to get a degree and had to go to an I.T. once he completed after that he was accepted into a university but couldnt go. He got a job using his diploma. Now a man he is back finishing his degree by night. Once it is complete he will be able to earn much better money with less hours and can look forward to a better pension.
Short story shorter, you can do anything you want once you have that bit of paper. Using it generally makes you more money and you have more career prospects. It does take hard work but in the long run it is very much so worth it. You can go abroad and use it or use it to do other courses.
It might only be a bit of paper and it does not mean you are cleverer than others but it does give you more options.
It's not the History itself that provides the edge over a straight law student, it's the skills that are required to achieve a high mark in a humanities subject. Ability to construct strong and coherent arguments from carefully extracted pieces of evidence. Ability to memorize large amounts of information and specific times and dates. Ability to understand motives of individuals and how the actions of such individuals had a greater or lesser impact on a wider picture.Yopaz said:
There's a reason why the humanities mesh so well with Law.
First, where in the hell did I mention dropping out? Second, I was speaking of the American public in general. When only 40-some percent of Americans acknowledge evolution as the origin of our existence, there are some pretty big freaking problems.Syzygy23 said:
And most community college attendees/grads won't learn a bit about science or will keep their preconceived beliefs about homeopathy or 'natural solutions' or creationism or whatever. Higher universities don't have this issue at all, but the *average* high school grad won't be going to a good school: They'll be going to a community college to get a degree based in jack-whatever that doesn't teach them anything.
Please, don't make a straw man out of my post. I was a little vague, yes, but you're putting words in my mouth.
These are sad times when people wonder if knowledge is financially viable.
I study philosophy, and if I'm unlucky, I won't find a good job. But knowledge (particularly, knowledge in a field I am interested in) is much more important than money.
I study philosophy, and if I'm unlucky, I won't find a good job. But knowledge (particularly, knowledge in a field I am interested in) is much more important than money.
That is terrible, should not happen. Unless you want the economy to fail. As more students default on their loans, more money is lost by the government. This forces them to raise taxes so that they can continue to fund folks who will never pay a cent. Tuition also rises, because the schools know they can ask for as much as they want and the government will continue to foot the bill. So now hard-working citizens are working harder to pay off increasingly ridiculous taxes, while honest students trying to be responsible are paying more for the same education. Actually a worse education. If everybody can go to college for free, they'll go to college for free. The quality of education per student plummets. So now we have people paying higher taxes, students paying higher tuition, and the quality of education has actually decreased.piinyouri said:
How is any of this going to help the average American? The answer is that it won't. I'm currently unemployed, with $50k in student loan debt. I plan to pay back every penny. Because unlike the majority of Americans today, who all believe that the government exists to pave over all hardships in their lives, I believe that the government's sole responsibilities are protection and policing. They should not be telling us how to make retirement funds. They should not be paying our hospital bills. They should not be paying for our education. Do you want to know why the American government is so far in debt? Because people expect all of these services which the government SHOULD NOT be providing. None of them make it money. Very few of them even break even. If we don't stop trying to pave the way for every citizen in America, we, as a nation, will fail.
So no. That is not a good idea. It may sound good now, when you have debt, but in 10 years, when you are working 2 jobs to pay off the debt of the American government, you won't be so thrilled. Short-sightedness is not a good trait.
Not really. College is incredibly expensive. about 5or 6 thousand dollars at the LEAST. Student loans can help, but after you're out, the will be almost unplayable, because finding a job at first to were you can pay it off will be difficult. Also, colleges like to crew you over on room and board, as well as books. Books this semester costed me about 500 bucks. So yea, American college is pretty much people trying to rip you off. The worst part? You have to go to college to get a decent job.Karoshi said:
For me, yes. In order to learn and do exactly what I want to, higher education is the only possible route. Economics and Law are complex subjects that take years of devoted study to master. That being said, there are many reasons why one would not care to pursue an undergraduate or graduate degree in anything. If you are happy with the employment you have found straight out of high school, more power to you.
Depends really. Pick something like physics, biology, maths, or IT etc etc, and yeah you'll likely be able to find somewhere to work as long as you put the effort in. It's about picking something that's actually going to serve you later on in life, if you pick Art, Philosophy(wat?) or surf science(again, WAT?) then its not worth it beyond the social side. Ie you picked a course that has no bearing on anything. Not that I'm saying Art of Philosophy (surf science can fuck off) don't have their place, but they're both subjects that you really shouldn't be going to University to study for three years and then expect to get a job out of them.
Similarly there are a lot of "fad" courses, like psychology is at the moment, A LOT of people are doing it, which is a shame because there are some people that really are into it, but they have to compete with a ton of other people who just sort of vaguely picked it.
Furthermore, don't pick a course you don't really know much about for FUCK sake. During my first year at Uni doing Video Games Development half of my class had never touched a computer before, I swear, and because of that, we had to waste a load of lessons to make up for these people. WHY ARE YOU HERE? You don't see me going; ooh I think I'll do Brain Surgery! I've not done biology since GCSE but I'll give it a go, it can't be too hard right?
Similarly there are a lot of "fad" courses, like psychology is at the moment, A LOT of people are doing it, which is a shame because there are some people that really are into it, but they have to compete with a ton of other people who just sort of vaguely picked it.
Furthermore, don't pick a course you don't really know much about for FUCK sake. During my first year at Uni doing Video Games Development half of my class had never touched a computer before, I swear, and because of that, we had to waste a load of lessons to make up for these people. WHY ARE YOU HERE? You don't see me going; ooh I think I'll do Brain Surgery! I've not done biology since GCSE but I'll give it a go, it can't be too hard right?
I assume you are from the land of the free, home of the brave. In that case, no.
In socialist Europe, yes.
As long as the degree isn't liberal arts or sociology or such. You'd be more beneficial at McDonald's.
In socialist Europe, yes.
As long as the degree isn't liberal arts or sociology or such. You'd be more beneficial at McDonald's.
Apart of the education that serves to keep your mind sharp, if not educated (take it from a guy who is 4 years out of college, I am not as mentally adept as I used to be), it's worth it for the experience. I had a blast meeting new and interesting people that have turned out to be better friends than any I ever had growing up.
I might be oversimplifying it though. I did not have to pay a cent as I attended a military college which requires several years of service on my part. Well worth it to not have to worry about paying off student loans and having a job through these economically tough times.
I might be oversimplifying it though. I did not have to pay a cent as I attended a military college which requires several years of service on my part. Well worth it to not have to worry about paying off student loans and having a job through these economically tough times.
It's worth it if you bother to put in the time and effort. It's a big monetary investment most of the time, so you better work your ass off. Also, make connections with your professors and other students and try to get in as much research in your field. If you do this you'll have a much easier time at getting a very nice job.
In America its almost essential if you want to find a good job unless you have friends in high places its really difficult. Study dem Maths and Sciences and your almost guaranteed a good paying job.
Now there is always the alternative which I like to consider my fail-safe which is move to Alaska.The work is plenty and the rent is cheap of course your living in the freezing cold but hey that is why its my fail-safe.
Also when choosing a college unless your going to some big name ivy league most people don't care which school you go to so I say community college is way underrated.
Now there is always the alternative which I like to consider my fail-safe which is move to Alaska.The work is plenty and the rent is cheap of course your living in the freezing cold but hey that is why its my fail-safe.
Also when choosing a college unless your going to some big name ivy league most people don't care which school you go to so I say community college is way underrated.
OK, I did admit that history could be a stepping stone 2 posts ago and I said it again in my last post. You have me there so there's no need to repeat the same argument that you have used in all your posts so far (and you claim your degree gives you the ability to construct strong coherent arguments), what I am asking is something that is specific to history. Why is history such an important degree? All the things you have mentioned are things that you will get skilled at while studying law and things that you'll learn in almost any other field. In fact philosophy is probably better at this than history since it teaches you a lot of different ways to construct your arguments and it teaches you the theories that have constructed the laws so you can work with them better. Even literature could work well by this.Lethos said:
Now you have already stated that you are defending your degree and thus you have already admit that you are biased in this. You need your degree to matter or that time and money will be wasted. What I want from you is one reason why history matters. Use your skills at constructing strong coherent arguments and make up one thing that I can't argue with here.
No, not really. You get this from history, but you also get it from pretty much anything else too, that includes law. Even literature gives you this. Knowing when books are made, how society accepted it, the feelings behind, what the meaning of it is, things like that. I have taken a course where we had to memorize the entire periodic table, needing to know the uses and how to find and purify every single element. I've had to learn every single step, the structure of every enzyme and the intermediates of all the steps of breaking down a molecule of sugar into biologic energy. The process and the details concerning it took up 4 chapters. You learn to memorize large amounts of information through other subjects than history.Abandon4093 said:
I could also go into how philosophy or sociology does the same, but I see not use. I am just going to repeat the same thing I have been saying all along since I keep getting reruns of old arguments thrown at me.
OK, I have repeated my own post 4 times already, I see no reason to go on to repeat it a 5th time. I have yet to get an actual answer here, but I don't care. I have a feeling I could go on and repeat my question for an eternity and get the same response for all eternity. From what I have learned here history teaches how to take personal insult in the fact that someone doesn't care much for it.Abandon4093 said:
I can only speak for the Computer Science career path, but I went through Uni with no student loans and a full time job, so I didn't really have the opportunity, or even had no idea how important networking and selling yourself for free as an intern would be.
I am strongly considering burning my diploma on youtube for shits and giggles. The full time hospital job I had I quit after graduation, to do some traveling, and with no prior experience I just hadn't been able to land a job once I got back. Some programmers liked me during interviews, HR never did.
Well, the best paying place I could land after some searching was the old hospital job I quit, unfortunately I lost all seniority so I'm taking a $3 an hour hit.
All I can really think of right now is the fact that if it wasn't for tuition I could be traveling for two more goddamn years.
I am strongly considering burning my diploma on youtube for shits and giggles. The full time hospital job I had I quit after graduation, to do some traveling, and with no prior experience I just hadn't been able to land a job once I got back. Some programmers liked me during interviews, HR never did.
Well, the best paying place I could land after some searching was the old hospital job I quit, unfortunately I lost all seniority so I'm taking a $3 an hour hit.
All I can really think of right now is the fact that if it wasn't for tuition I could be traveling for two more goddamn years.
At one time in the world, absolutely. The logic was it was the best thing to differentiate yourself in the job market.
However for this current generation, no not in the slightest. There is no advantage to be had in the job market when your level of degree is commonplace.
I mean sure if you have a specific career in mind that requires prerequisite education, that will in turn yield ample salaries to compensate the staggering debt such as doctors, lawyers, CPAs, etc. But getting that education just for the sake of getting an education really does nothing given there are so many others out there in the job market who did that exact same thing because their parents kept drilling it in their head how important it was to get a good education.
However for this current generation, no not in the slightest. There is no advantage to be had in the job market when your level of degree is commonplace.
I mean sure if you have a specific career in mind that requires prerequisite education, that will in turn yield ample salaries to compensate the staggering debt such as doctors, lawyers, CPAs, etc. But getting that education just for the sake of getting an education really does nothing given there are so many others out there in the job market who did that exact same thing because their parents kept drilling it in their head how important it was to get a good education.