Poll: Is higher education worth it?
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Depends on the field, even then you need a bit of ingenuity and a willingness to adapt.
I'm finishing up a Batchelors in Maths and a Masters in Chemistry, even then it looks like the only way to get a job is to get a PhD. In Germany.
I'm finishing up a Batchelors in Maths and a Masters in Chemistry, even then it looks like the only way to get a job is to get a PhD. In Germany.
I've voted yes, but I think it depends on what your career aspects are. If you want to be a doctor, yes you need to go to university, but for a number of careers now you can find apprenticeships and training schemes (in the UK) that are open to school leavers and train you as you work in your selected field. I have a degree, I don't regret it for a second but I have seen some interesting courses that I'd have liked to have applied for but they weren't open to degree holders!
If you are leaving school, I'd suggest thinking carefully about what it is you want to do and then looking at all of the options. A degree may be necessary or may be your desired next step, or you may find an apprenticeship suits you more. You could always do a degree afterwards if you change your mind.
If you are leaving school, I'd suggest thinking carefully about what it is you want to do and then looking at all of the options. A degree may be necessary or may be your desired next step, or you may find an apprenticeship suits you more. You could always do a degree afterwards if you change your mind.
I'm gonna say yes but I am halfway through a physics degree. Generally, I think if you want to work in sciences/engineering/computer science kinda areas, then yeah, you NEED a degree. Simple as. History/Politics degrees are normally quite handy as well for the skills that you learn.
Arts degrees and the like have always seemed like a waste of money to me though, so I'd say they aren't worth it.
Arts degrees and the like have always seemed like a waste of money to me though, so I'd say they aren't worth it.
Background: I went to a reasonably high-level engineering university. So there are my biases and my credentials for the topic, take them as you will.
I'd say, a college education is absolutely worth it in one of the following cases:
- You intend to go into STEM (science technology engineering math) fields. At this point, it's mandatory. BUT -- don't go to a crappy school for this. If you're going to go STEM, I say go all the way, and pony up for loans for the best place that will take you. Right now, people from mediocre schools are being looked over in the engineering world for people who either have higher degrees or have a bachelor's from somewhere really respected. I know that ~$200K for four years at Caltech looks like the world's worst sack of debt, but you will have *the* best chance at a job that you could ever have, once you're done. In this economy, that matters. Also, note that if you want a job in the sciences (physics, math, etc.), you want a grad degree, while engineering only mandates a bachelor's.
- You want to do research. (In which case, you actually need to get a master's or, more likely, a Ph.D.)
- You want to teach. Seriously, go learn your subject, and don't be one of those sucky teachers that just kind of fills in at crappy schools. We need more teachers; go be a quality one. However, you don't need a Ph.D. to teach, so you don't need to suffer crazy grad school for this.
- You want to be a doctor, lawyer or some other very regimented career. Medical school is a very strict process, for example. It mandates higher education.
Here is when you don't necessarily need or want to go to college:
- You want to be a writer or some such thing that tends to be a hobby unless people become successful. At this point, your college degree is using up tons of money, and you're better off training for a day job that will fund you until you produce something that will sell. Remember, you *can* be an artist without going to art school, and you *can* write without classes, and you *can* go into fashion without any kind of education in the matter. Humanities I'd say are easier to self-study than science, and science is possibly more rigorous in mandating a college education. (If you're one of those prodigies that has already built a giant robot, you might -- *might* -- be able to skip this. But I don't think so. People like that tend to use that to get into college, not get a job.)
- You don't know what you want to do, but it's ambiguously in the humanities. Again, go find a trade to learn or some such thing, because the odds of anyone particularly valuing a bachelor's degree in humanities right now, are pretty low. The reason isn't because they suck; the reason is because *everyone has one.* Right now, you're better off specializing in something not everyone is trying to do at the same time, which has too few job slots and too many applicants.
Also, last note, don't overlook trades! At least in America, we tend to have big egos and see ourselves as "too good" for blue-collar jobs, but just try bringing that up when you need an electrician or a plumber or a welder. There was an entire power plant that couldn't be built because there weren't enough welders. This doesn't require HUGE EXPENSIVE EDUCATION, but it's a specialized field that will always be in use.
I'd say, a college education is absolutely worth it in one of the following cases:
- You intend to go into STEM (science technology engineering math) fields. At this point, it's mandatory. BUT -- don't go to a crappy school for this. If you're going to go STEM, I say go all the way, and pony up for loans for the best place that will take you. Right now, people from mediocre schools are being looked over in the engineering world for people who either have higher degrees or have a bachelor's from somewhere really respected. I know that ~$200K for four years at Caltech looks like the world's worst sack of debt, but you will have *the* best chance at a job that you could ever have, once you're done. In this economy, that matters. Also, note that if you want a job in the sciences (physics, math, etc.), you want a grad degree, while engineering only mandates a bachelor's.
- You want to do research. (In which case, you actually need to get a master's or, more likely, a Ph.D.)
- You want to teach. Seriously, go learn your subject, and don't be one of those sucky teachers that just kind of fills in at crappy schools. We need more teachers; go be a quality one. However, you don't need a Ph.D. to teach, so you don't need to suffer crazy grad school for this.
- You want to be a doctor, lawyer or some other very regimented career. Medical school is a very strict process, for example. It mandates higher education.
Here is when you don't necessarily need or want to go to college:
- You want to be a writer or some such thing that tends to be a hobby unless people become successful. At this point, your college degree is using up tons of money, and you're better off training for a day job that will fund you until you produce something that will sell. Remember, you *can* be an artist without going to art school, and you *can* write without classes, and you *can* go into fashion without any kind of education in the matter. Humanities I'd say are easier to self-study than science, and science is possibly more rigorous in mandating a college education. (If you're one of those prodigies that has already built a giant robot, you might -- *might* -- be able to skip this. But I don't think so. People like that tend to use that to get into college, not get a job.)
- You don't know what you want to do, but it's ambiguously in the humanities. Again, go find a trade to learn or some such thing, because the odds of anyone particularly valuing a bachelor's degree in humanities right now, are pretty low. The reason isn't because they suck; the reason is because *everyone has one.* Right now, you're better off specializing in something not everyone is trying to do at the same time, which has too few job slots and too many applicants.
Also, last note, don't overlook trades! At least in America, we tend to have big egos and see ourselves as "too good" for blue-collar jobs, but just try bringing that up when you need an electrician or a plumber or a welder. There was an entire power plant that couldn't be built because there weren't enough welders. This doesn't require HUGE EXPENSIVE EDUCATION, but it's a specialized field that will always be in use.
You Europeans get all the money! Us Canadians STILL have to put up with stupid overly bloated tuition fees!
Also, I hope it's worth it. Seeing that I'm starting in about 1-2 weeks.
Also, I hope it's worth it. Seeing that I'm starting in about 1-2 weeks.
First off, I'll say I don't have a college degree. So this post may be a little more slanted towards those who don't, but I think the point still stands. Schools and the way they teach are not for everyone.
In the US, I'm not sure it is like this elsewhere, but even for entry level type clerical positions a good portion of ads will say degree required. These are for jobs that you don't need a whit of a college education for. I've even seen data entry jobs require a degree, how screwy is that. Everything about them can be taught on the job or the person should have had in high school. The problem is you get a lot of good people being locked out of jobs, who could easily do the job, but for that piece of paper. There are plenty of people who have gained the experience of doing a particular position by learning on their own. I'm sure many of you have someone you go to to fix your computer (whether hardware or software), if that isn't yourself, and I would bet that a lot of those people learned those skills on their own.
I even had this situation myself about 10 years ago. I went in for a position and this is what the manager had said, I still remember; "I would hire you on the spot, you are actually over qualified, but as of now I can't because you don't have the degree." Afterward he said he tried to work on HR, but they wouldn't budge on the degree.
Basically, the point I'm trying (probably badly) to make is that in the US, a bachelor's degree is almost required now. What the high school diploma used to be, the bachelor's degree is now. It doesn't matter what the degree is in, just that you have that piece of paper. And for more specialized areas (engineering, other science, math, etc) which don't have their own school's (law, medical), although they still still probably apply as well, Master's are probably the minimum there.
In the US, I'm not sure it is like this elsewhere, but even for entry level type clerical positions a good portion of ads will say degree required. These are for jobs that you don't need a whit of a college education for. I've even seen data entry jobs require a degree, how screwy is that. Everything about them can be taught on the job or the person should have had in high school. The problem is you get a lot of good people being locked out of jobs, who could easily do the job, but for that piece of paper. There are plenty of people who have gained the experience of doing a particular position by learning on their own. I'm sure many of you have someone you go to to fix your computer (whether hardware or software), if that isn't yourself, and I would bet that a lot of those people learned those skills on their own.
I even had this situation myself about 10 years ago. I went in for a position and this is what the manager had said, I still remember; "I would hire you on the spot, you are actually over qualified, but as of now I can't because you don't have the degree." Afterward he said he tried to work on HR, but they wouldn't budge on the degree.
Basically, the point I'm trying (probably badly) to make is that in the US, a bachelor's degree is almost required now. What the high school diploma used to be, the bachelor's degree is now. It doesn't matter what the degree is in, just that you have that piece of paper. And for more specialized areas (engineering, other science, math, etc) which don't have their own school's (law, medical), although they still still probably apply as well, Master's are probably the minimum there.
Depends... I hope to join the military after getting Medical Science degree as a Scientific Officer (A career that is in high demand) so for me I think it'll be worth it. Plus I can get a fair few labwork jobs in hospitals if it doesn't go through.
I say it depends on the degree.
I say it depends on the degree.
From an economic aspect, it really depends on your field of study and the cost of tuition relative to how much mastery of the subject you can gain at your chosen institution.
If you have a calling or passion that, unless answered, will haunt your dreams for the rest of your life, it doesn't really how fiscally sound the endeavor of higher education for that passion is. There are people everywhere living on little or nothing and doing so with a smile on their face. If your career will pay out enough to keep you from starvation and sleeping on the streets (accounting for loan payments), then there's no reason to not give it a shot. True happiness is invaluable. If you are this type of person, you'll just sort of know.
Now, if you have a few things you enjoy, but don't eat/sleep/breathe them, then I'd say it's always best to pick the career path that satisfies you "enough" that's stable and well paying. If you aren't 100% sure what you want to do with your life, then it only makes sense to give yourself a stable platform from which you can be flexible should you choose to change careers. You'll likely find, though, that most jobs have the same failings of beauracracy and menial work that interrupts your "real" work. At least with this option, you have the freedom of choice after just a few years of saving and discovery.
If you shoot for the moon and miss in a field that falls more into the liberal arts, life could become extremely miserable if you're not only in mounds of debt, but must rely on the career that is 100% demanding of your heart and soul to pay the bills (even when you really can't put 100% of yourself into it since you've realized it's not what you were meant to do with your life). Very few of us are "artists". You do not become an arstist - you are born one.
In short, make sure you know yourself before you try to know the world.
If you have a calling or passion that, unless answered, will haunt your dreams for the rest of your life, it doesn't really how fiscally sound the endeavor of higher education for that passion is. There are people everywhere living on little or nothing and doing so with a smile on their face. If your career will pay out enough to keep you from starvation and sleeping on the streets (accounting for loan payments), then there's no reason to not give it a shot. True happiness is invaluable. If you are this type of person, you'll just sort of know.
Now, if you have a few things you enjoy, but don't eat/sleep/breathe them, then I'd say it's always best to pick the career path that satisfies you "enough" that's stable and well paying. If you aren't 100% sure what you want to do with your life, then it only makes sense to give yourself a stable platform from which you can be flexible should you choose to change careers. You'll likely find, though, that most jobs have the same failings of beauracracy and menial work that interrupts your "real" work. At least with this option, you have the freedom of choice after just a few years of saving and discovery.
If you shoot for the moon and miss in a field that falls more into the liberal arts, life could become extremely miserable if you're not only in mounds of debt, but must rely on the career that is 100% demanding of your heart and soul to pay the bills (even when you really can't put 100% of yourself into it since you've realized it's not what you were meant to do with your life). Very few of us are "artists". You do not become an arstist - you are born one.
In short, make sure you know yourself before you try to know the world.
Ahh, you've missed out quite an important detailhutchy27 said:
the interest rate is ridiculous, I know someone who left uni after 6 months and even when he can pay the amount back, those payments if together would have paid it off but the interest rate just pushed the cost right back to before he started and even higher
it's not as simple as you make it out to be, the quoted cost isn't the full price you pay
The method of paying back tuition fees is still fairly manageable (if you're in the new 2013 year or later years, not sure about previous years), however ridiculous the actual cost is. 9% of any income over £21k, if you're under that, you don't have to pay, if you can't pay within a certain amount of years (I *think* it's 30, but don't quote me on that) it's wiped out. It feels more like a graduate tax. So it's manageable, and the interest rate varies depending on how much you actually earn.Shivarage said:
Back to the original topic, if you want to learn, I'd say higher education is worth it.
I've been wondering about that myself. College education is fairly cheap in my country (around 400-600 euro per semester) and other costs are not too high (most literature is available in libraries, student housing for out-of-town students is government subsidised for the most part, as is food and transportation, etc.), but I'm still not sure about it being economically viable, if for no other reason then because of the money that I could have earned if I got a full time job straight out of high school.
Now, some high paying fields do require specific higher education (private medical practice, law, etc.), but those schools are hard to get into and even then it's not a guarantee (most doctors don't really make all that much and neither do most lawyers).
All in all, I'd say it's worth it if you have something very specific in mind. However, going to college just for the sake of going to college is a waste of time.
Personally, I got screwed, since I wasn't sure what I wanted and wound up spending over 5 years to end up with degrees in linguistics and anthropology. Since due to the ongoing financial crisis the various scientific institutions where I'd normally look for employment are not hiring at all, I can't get a job in my field and I lack the inspiration to make something happen myself (again, I only took those majors because it sounded interesting and I had no better ideas).
Now I'm regretting it.
Sure, a college degree looks nice, but I'm likely to end up with a job I could do with only a high school education. I would have been better off taking a year or two or three and just working a job while I figure out what I want to do. Also, now that I DO have an idea what I would be interested in, it's too late and I can't afford to go for another 3+ years.
I'm guessing it's even worse in countries where it's pretty much cheaper to buy a house than go to college. I'd say only go for it if you really belive in what you are signing up for. Otherwise, get a job or just go traveling. You'll end up with waaaay more money in the long run...
Now, some high paying fields do require specific higher education (private medical practice, law, etc.), but those schools are hard to get into and even then it's not a guarantee (most doctors don't really make all that much and neither do most lawyers).
All in all, I'd say it's worth it if you have something very specific in mind. However, going to college just for the sake of going to college is a waste of time.
Personally, I got screwed, since I wasn't sure what I wanted and wound up spending over 5 years to end up with degrees in linguistics and anthropology. Since due to the ongoing financial crisis the various scientific institutions where I'd normally look for employment are not hiring at all, I can't get a job in my field and I lack the inspiration to make something happen myself (again, I only took those majors because it sounded interesting and I had no better ideas).
Now I'm regretting it.
Sure, a college degree looks nice, but I'm likely to end up with a job I could do with only a high school education. I would have been better off taking a year or two or three and just working a job while I figure out what I want to do. Also, now that I DO have an idea what I would be interested in, it's too late and I can't afford to go for another 3+ years.
I'm guessing it's even worse in countries where it's pretty much cheaper to buy a house than go to college. I'd say only go for it if you really belive in what you are signing up for. Otherwise, get a job or just go traveling. You'll end up with waaaay more money in the long run...
For the friends I made, the idiotic positions I found myself in and the shear amount of laughing I did. Yes.
For the education itself? No. Absolutely not. Horrible value for money. Lecturers who couldn't speak english. Lecturers who fell asleep mid-lecture. Sloppy website with terrible emailing systems resulting in inboxes spammed to death everyday. They changed the rules for my degree blocking me in specialising in IT which led to a whole range of negative consequences. Treated me like **** when I was hospitalised with illness during the exam period. Careers advice was atrocious. They forgot to apply for European funding supporting students who travelled abroad on work experience resulting in the loss of £2500 each. Halls drained me of cash in my first year and they blackmailed me for fallacious repairs when I was moving on at the end of the year. Management gave hoity toity speeches about how lucky we were to be attending such an establishment in the vain hope that I would blow air up their asses.
Honestly it felt like they were treating students like cash cows.
For the education itself? No. Absolutely not. Horrible value for money. Lecturers who couldn't speak english. Lecturers who fell asleep mid-lecture. Sloppy website with terrible emailing systems resulting in inboxes spammed to death everyday. They changed the rules for my degree blocking me in specialising in IT which led to a whole range of negative consequences. Treated me like **** when I was hospitalised with illness during the exam period. Careers advice was atrocious. They forgot to apply for European funding supporting students who travelled abroad on work experience resulting in the loss of £2500 each. Halls drained me of cash in my first year and they blackmailed me for fallacious repairs when I was moving on at the end of the year. Management gave hoity toity speeches about how lucky we were to be attending such an establishment in the vain hope that I would blow air up their asses.
Honestly it felt like they were treating students like cash cows.
This might give some perspecitve on why I say "Maybe".
You see I have 2 undergrad degrees. I first got a BA (double-major in English Lit and History) - my plan was to get into journalism (there were post-grad diplomas for this sort of thing) but, near the end of my degree, I no longer wanted to be a journalist. I finished my degree and worked for a couple of years before returning to university and completing a Bcom )double-major in Information Systems and International Business).
Now I work for a bank and have quite a decent job - I finished paying off my student loan at 31 years old (bearing in mind this is two degrees worth of loans). The irony is that a good chunk of why I am good at my job is based around the research, reading and writing skills from my BA - not as much from the commerce degree (although a lot of that has been useful too). Based on my job now; If I could do it again I would have done a double degree BA/Bcom majoring in History and International Business only - but I don't regret the other stuff; I still learnt a lot and, mostly, enjoyed what I was doing.
But it isn't for everyone. Make sure that you are challenging yourself and learning things while you study or else you are, in effect, wasting your time. One other tip: with the exception of professional degrees (those required for specific fields; law, medicine, engineering, architecture...) most jobs are really a learn-as-you-go deal; your degree isn't as relevant and can be loosely related (hell my manager was a history major and his boss was a geography major; yet here we are in banking) getting your foot in the door is, often, the hardest part.
You see I have 2 undergrad degrees. I first got a BA (double-major in English Lit and History) - my plan was to get into journalism (there were post-grad diplomas for this sort of thing) but, near the end of my degree, I no longer wanted to be a journalist. I finished my degree and worked for a couple of years before returning to university and completing a Bcom )double-major in Information Systems and International Business).
Now I work for a bank and have quite a decent job - I finished paying off my student loan at 31 years old (bearing in mind this is two degrees worth of loans). The irony is that a good chunk of why I am good at my job is based around the research, reading and writing skills from my BA - not as much from the commerce degree (although a lot of that has been useful too). Based on my job now; If I could do it again I would have done a double degree BA/Bcom majoring in History and International Business only - but I don't regret the other stuff; I still learnt a lot and, mostly, enjoyed what I was doing.
But it isn't for everyone. Make sure that you are challenging yourself and learning things while you study or else you are, in effect, wasting your time. One other tip: with the exception of professional degrees (those required for specific fields; law, medicine, engineering, architecture...) most jobs are really a learn-as-you-go deal; your degree isn't as relevant and can be loosely related (hell my manager was a history major and his boss was a geography major; yet here we are in banking) getting your foot in the door is, often, the hardest part.
