Poll: It's really time to stop supporting Blizzard

[bob1052]

Or...you know, don't cheat. Blizzard takes cheating very seriously, this should have been known when they set out to ban multiplayer cheaters. To put it in their own words, they probably wanted to ban single player cheaters in Starcraft one, but didn't have the technology or the time for it. Now they do and do it they shall.

Really??? Then why the Feck did they INSTALL CHEATS IN the original Starcraft and the Brood Wars expansion?? your an idiot. they should never have written into the code key words that activated cheats in the first fecking place if they didn't want people tempted to cheat while playing their games.

There's a difference between using cheat codes and using a third party program to hack or break the game.

So only cheat the way Blizzard allows or else? How do you feel about Gameshark, Action Replay, etc..?

Blizzard has control over the cheats that they implement. Their cheats do not negatively affect the multiplayer aspect and allow only as much as Blizzard wants them to. The other cheats allow players to run amuck however they please.

(In some areas of the world) police confiscate guns, while at the same time use them. That is because they can control the guns when they are in their hands, but not in the hands of everyone.

Blizzard should have separated single and multiplayer achievements but they didn't so really, they created this situation.

Regardless if they separated them or not, the people who used third party technology, in blatant disregard for the EULA, created the issue.

I have mixed opinions here.

On one hand I am not buying "Starcraft 2" in part because of the way it was marketed (1 3rd of the campaign).

Just a quick off-topic response, the one-third of the campaign in Wings of Liberty is longer than many standalone games.

I think that's true largely because of the sheer number of short games being produced nowadays. A lot of people in my guild in WoW play it, and while most of them are big fans, they do tend to be critical of the quality of a lot of the missions, and opinions as to the overall length of the game and value do vary. Most of them that are big supporters are kind of Starcraft Fanatics in a general sense, representing the market Blizzard was counting on.

As I see things, a game should tell the complete story it's setting out to tell. This game does not. What's more, when you look into the reasons why they are splitting the game up to begin with, it comes down to pure greed. Why produce one game of epic length with a hundred or more hours of gameplay, when you can split it up into three games and sell it for more money? The fact that Blizzard is telling cocking bull stories about how it would have taken 14 years to develop all three campaigns annoys me. Especially when you consider that this means we're not going to see how things end for another decade if they are telling the truth (which I very much doubt incidently).

People try and defend this desician on Blizzard's part, especially fanboys, but really I don't think it's a defensible position. Your not alone in talking about the game's relative length, but given that today there are increasing numbers of games that clock in at only 5-10 hours (or even less) when it comes to single player, that doesn't say much. Especially seeing as a lot of the playtime pretty much comes down to replaying missions at increased difficulty levels for the bragging rights/blizzscore rather than experiencing new content.

I think you know a lot more into the specifics of this discussion than I do, so I will concede that you are probably right, but couldn't the same logic be applied to many other forms of media?

Why release Lord of the Rings as a trilogy (+1) as books when you can just take the extra time to release one for an epic journey. At the end of #2 the story was still unresolved, etc.

 

[bob1052]

Didn't notice this post was a double post

 

[Snotnarok]

Blizzard should have separated single and multiplayer achievements but they didn't so really, they created this situation.

It's their fault you decided to cheat? It's their fault that you'd still be cheating to get achievements which no company is okay with you doing?

I don't even like blizzard, they're under Activision and there's no company I want restructured more than them and I'm totally with them on this.

You hit "I agree" to the EULA, you break it, you fall in their rules. Stop trying to shift the blame, blizzard or activsion didn't make you cheat, ya chose to. Ya get to buy the game again, this time don't cheat and all will be fan-dabby-tastic.

 

[bob1052]

Blizzard should have separated single and multiplayer achievements but they didn't so really, they created this situation.

It's their fault you decided to cheat? It's their fault that you'd still be cheating to get achievements which no company is okay with you doing?

I don't even like blizzard, they're under Activision and there's no company I want restructured more than them and I'm totally with them on this.

You hit "I agree" to the EULA, you break it, you fall in their rules. Stop trying to shift the blame, blizzard or activsion didn't make you cheat, ya chose to. Ya get to buy the game again, this time don't cheat and all will be fan-dabby-tastic.

Real quick, Garak is making points for the defense of freedom in your single player experience, not complaining that he was the one banned.

Or...you know, don't cheat. Blizzard takes cheating very seriously, this should have been known when they set out to ban multiplayer cheaters. To put it in their own words, they probably wanted to ban single player cheaters in Starcraft one, but didn't have the technology or the time for it. Now they do and do it they shall.

Really??? Then why the Feck did they INSTALL CHEATS IN the original Starcraft and the Brood Wars expansion?? your an idiot. they should never have written into the code key words that activated cheats in the first fecking place if they didn't want people tempted to cheat while playing their games.

There's a difference between using cheat codes and using a third party program to hack or break the game.

So only cheat the way Blizzard allows or else? How do you feel about Gameshark, Action Replay, etc..?

Blizzard has control over the cheats that they implement. Their cheats do not negatively affect the multiplayer aspect and allow only as much as Blizzard wants them to. The other cheats allow players to run amuck however they please.

(In some areas of the world) police confiscate guns, while at the same time use them. That is because they can control the guns when they are in their hands, but not in the hands of everyone.

Blizzard should have separated single and multiplayer achievements but they didn't so really, they created this situation.

Regardless if they separated them or not, the people who used third party technology, in blatant disregard for the EULA, created the issue.

If they had separated them then trainers wouldn't be a problem would they?

You argument is based on a giant if.

What about, IF people didn't use the trainers, having the two systems not separated wouldn't be a problem would it?

 

[bob1052]

Stop pretending there isn't a scam in regards to agreeing to a contract you can't read until you open the product and then can't return it.

Are you really going to try bringing up something that has been dismissed in two threads already? You are losing footing in this argument fast.

Blizzard should have separated single and multiplayer achievements but they didn't so really, they created this situation.

It's their fault you decided to cheat? It's their fault that you'd still be cheating to get achievements which no company is okay with you doing?

I don't even like blizzard, they're under Activision and there's no company I want restructured more than them and I'm totally with them on this.

You hit "I agree" to the EULA, you break it, you fall in their rules. Stop trying to shift the blame, blizzard or activsion didn't make you cheat, ya chose to. Ya get to buy the game again, this time don't cheat and all will be fan-dabby-tastic.

Real quick, Garak is making points for the defense of freedom in your single player experience, not complaining that he was the one banned.

Or...you know, don't cheat. Blizzard takes cheating very seriously, this should have been known when they set out to ban multiplayer cheaters. To put it in their own words, they probably wanted to ban single player cheaters in Starcraft one, but didn't have the technology or the time for it. Now they do and do it they shall.

Really??? Then why the Feck did they INSTALL CHEATS IN the original Starcraft and the Brood Wars expansion?? your an idiot. they should never have written into the code key words that activated cheats in the first fecking place if they didn't want people tempted to cheat while playing their games.

There's a difference between using cheat codes and using a third party program to hack or break the game.

So only cheat the way Blizzard allows or else? How do you feel about Gameshark, Action Replay, etc..?

Blizzard has control over the cheats that they implement. Their cheats do not negatively affect the multiplayer aspect and allow only as much as Blizzard wants them to. The other cheats allow players to run amuck however they please.

(In some areas of the world) police confiscate guns, while at the same time use them. That is because they can control the guns when they are in their hands, but not in the hands of everyone.

Blizzard should have separated single and multiplayer achievements but they didn't so really, they created this situation.

Regardless if they separated them or not, the people who used third party technology, in blatant disregard for the EULA, created the issue.

If they had separated them then trainers wouldn't be a problem would they?

You argument is based on a giant if.

What about, IF people didn't use the trainers, having the two systems not separated wouldn't be a problem would it?

Except that what Blizzard has done is not the norm.

And how does Blizzard making their game instead of your game create an issue?

 

[Korroth Dyahwanre]

Why release Lord of the Rings as a trilogy (+1) as books when you can just take the extra time to release one for an epic journey. At the end of #2 the story was still unresolved, etc.

Because some people like myself would rather a book around 350ish pages in their hands rather then a 1500 page brick.

 

[bob1052]

Why release Lord of the Rings as a trilogy (+1) as books when you can just take the extra time to release one for an epic journey. At the end of #2 the story was still unresolved, etc.

Because some people like myself would rather a book around 350ish pages in their hands rather then a 1500 page brick.

Some people would prefer three 10 hour campaigns (more with replay value) than a giant 30 hour brick.

 

[Korroth Dyahwanre]

Why release Lord of the Rings as a trilogy (+1) as books when you can just take the extra time to release one for an epic journey. At the end of #2 the story was still unresolved, etc.

Because some people like myself would rather a book around 350ish pages in their hands rather then a 1500 page brick.

Some people would prefer three 10 hour campaigns (more with replay value) than a giant 30 hour brick.

LoL I totally don't disagree with you

 

[Paulie92]

Would it matter if he cheated while not logged onto battle net? I couldn't sort of, really vaguely understand if he were using cheats to get achievements... kinda. If he was playing offline then that's completely bollocks!

and no I'm not going to boycott blizzard, I like too many of their games (SC I & II and WC III)

 

[ethaninja]

No thanks. I like games.

 

[Mcface]

Kinda sounds like someone got caught cheating and is QQing..

 

[bob1052]

Stop pretending there isn't a scam in regards to agreeing to a contract you can't read until you open the product and then can't return it.

Are you really going to try bringing up something that has been dismissed in two threads already? You are losing footing in this argument fast.

It hasn't been dismissed. Open software cannot be returned with any certainty. It is the only product that I know of that cannot be returned to the retail location it was purchased from.

That you MIGHT get lucky and get a refund from the publisher is not a certainty and it is alot more hassle than with any other product.

Blizzard, or any developer, does know if a key is valid or invalid, active or inactive at any time. If you can prove you own a key, and it is invalid, and you have an issue with their game, you have a valid case for a refund.

And how does Blizzard making their game instead of your game create an issue?

There are two threads about it, you are in one of them.

There are two threads in which you believe that because people cheated in a game that forbids cheating, in both the EULA (which you stalwartly believe is a scam after being proven wrong twice) and in press releases, is the fault of the developer for not making the game accommodate cheats (aside from the ones given to the players from the developer for use).

 

[asinann]

Cheating is cheating. Suffer the consequences.

Play by the rules and you have nothing to worry about.

It's like getting a speeding ticket then campaigning to impeach the government.

Retarded.

Except that you can't get a speeding ticket on your own property.

There should NEVER be a punishment of any kind for cheating in single player modes of games. Blizzard could have (and have done in the past) programmed the game so that if a cheat of any kind was on achievements could not obtained.

And for all you "they broke the EULA" people: End User License Agreements are legally unenforceable in almost every state because they lack a clause that leaves the rest enforceable if one part becomes unenforceable and in most states at least 1 part of every single EULA is unenforceable. That's how they can question the legality of the bannings. I know that the one Sony used with Everquest back around 2005 (haven't read it in a while so I don't know if it's still there) actually violated international copyright law by claiming everything you did, every character you created and their names as their intellectual property without forcing you to actually give up your copyright to it.

 

[Something Amyss]

http://www.cheathappens.com/article_blizzardbans.asp
I'm sure you all have seen this by now but for those of you who haven't get a look at what those bastards are trying to get away with now. I'm calling for an escapist wide boycott on everything Blizzard.

Now, WHO'S WITH ME!!!

I read the link. At the point they were questioning the legality of an account suspension, I was already rolling my eyes.

In fact, it kinda works the other way. Thanks to the DMCA (which codified the existing WIPO treaty), it's almost certainly illegal for them to be modifying the game in the fashion. I get the idea that you want to play the game your way, but that doesn't make it right for you to do so.

Than being said, I can't name the last Blizzard game I bought, so they won't see the difference.

 

[MrGalactus]

Its time to stop supporting Activision, too. How convienient.

 

[bob1052]

Cheating is cheating. Suffer the consequences.

Play by the rules and you have nothing to worry about.

It's like getting a speeding ticket then campaigning to impeach the government.

Retarded.

Blizzard could have (and have done in the past) programmed the game so that if a cheat of any kind was on achievements could not obtained.

Blizzard did to this. The whole point of the cheats is to allow players to bypass the achievement prevention tool.

 

[Therumancer]

I think you know a lot more into the specifics of this discussion than I do, so I will concede that you are probably right, but couldn't the same logic be applied to many other forms of media?

Why release Lord of the Rings as a trilogy (+1) as books when you can just take the extra time to release one for an epic journey. At the end of #2 the story was still unresolved, etc.

A lot of my information comes from articles like this one (also from The Escapist)

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/103607-Blizzard-Explains-Tough-Decisions-Behind-StarCraft-II-Trilogy

While written from a pro-Blizzard standpoint, this is where they claim it would take 10-12 years for them to have done the entire trilogy (and I've heard longer quotes from other sources here and there), and to me that invalidates a lot of their own defenses due to the sheer "WTF" factor not to mention a lot of the defenses fans make.

It's pretty easy to learn about with a bit of digging if your ever interested in solid info other than just listening to people like me ramble second hand.

-

As far as things like movies go, there are limits to how long someone can sit down and watch one consistant performance. Games might be able to provide hundreds of hours of gameplay but it doesn't require one to sit there and play the game for that time straight through, you can easily get up to use the bathroom without missing anything in most cases. With a movie sitting there for nine hours or whatever is pushing it, and if you get up to get a drink or go to the bathroom (or get tired and need to sleep) your going to miss stuff if you do. There are practical concerns for splitting things like the "Lord Of The Rings" movies up that way.

When it comes to books, a big part of the issue is of course the abillity of the writer. It took Tolkien a LONG time to finish "Lord Of The Rings" it was not one complete work that was split up. Other series like Asimov's "Foundation" likewise were split up over a lifetime.

With books in some cases splitting a story up into a triology or series is done to be practical, sometimes it's done to make money, in most cases however it's because the writer is doing it one piece at a time, and both the publisher and readers are of course dependant on the writer deciding to eventually finish things. There have been a number of series through the years where the writer never finished the work for various reasons. Roger Zelazny died before he coould complete the last Amber series for example.

The thing is that the videom game medium allows for someone to practically release hundreds of hours of content, and for people to consume that content effectively. What's more, you see various game companies releasing games of that length/with that much content.

Sometimes it might not take all that much time/content to tell a story, or make a complete game, it depends, and people argue about the length of games and how various titles turned out all the time. The thing with "Starcraft 2" is that they already had the entire thing planned out as a single, cohesive work. They decided to take that work and split it into a triology to make more money, and drag things out, and then cover it with lame excuses by claiming it would have taken them a decade to produce the entire thing.

I say lame excuses because if you look at what games looked like back in the year 2000, can you actually imagine in 2020 when they finish this game (if they are serious) what the current tech is going to be like in comparison? It's not going to be a part of it, it's
going to be something entirely differant by that point. No game is going to stay in development unchanged for that long where it's going to take 10 years to produce (which is why "Duke Nukem Forever" was such a joke).

See, what makes me angry is that Blizzard is not only being greedy, the stuff they are saying seems to imply that their entire fanbase is a group of morons. Over 10 years it's not a bloody Trilogy, it's Starcraft 2, 3 and 4.... and I doubt it's going to take that long.

 

[1rednose]

Seems there are a lot of people that say you shouldn't cheat. My question is, why not? It's your game, and should be able to do with it what you want. Someone else's cheating and achievements that you worked hard to get the honest way may annoy you, but it's THEIR game, not yours. If this affected multiplayer games, then of course it would be wrong, but seems to be nothing more than Blizzard trying to tell you how to play a game you own, which is bollocks.

 

[Korroth Dyahwanre]

OK Bob1052 since we've got this book analogy going.... with the books I'm not required to have the other three still taking up space in my lap in order to read the last one. The Expansions for the game have required the previous in order to function properly in the past. It is easier to install 1 large program without having to reinstall portions of it when you install the next piece of the Game. to install that much over time, Consumes hardrive space that not everyone that wishes to play can afford to set aside for blizzard(or honestly any game company). Now unless blizzard gets smart and makes them(each installment) stand alone and not require the others to play the latest then I have nothing to stand on

But this has nothing to do with people boycotting Blizzard for banning cheaters...

We now return you to your regularly scheduled ***** fest...... carry on

 

[bob1052]

Blizzard, or any developer, does know if a key is valid or invalid, active or inactive at any time. If you can prove you own a key, and it is invalid, and you have an issue with their game, you have a valid case for a refund.

A valid case means nothing. If I have a valid case, why can't I take it back to the retail store like I can with anything else. Is it Wal Mart, Target, KMart, Best Buy, etc... that are the problem or is it the publishers that advise retail stores not to take them back?

There are two threads in which you believe that because people cheated in a game that forbids cheating, in both the EULA (which you stalwartly believe is a scam after being proven wrong twice) and in press releases, is the fault of the developer for not making the game accommodate cheats (aside from the ones given to the players from the developer for use).

Other games allow use of a trainer so really, why is this game any different? Blizzard chose to design their game this way and it has had negative consequences.

1. Blizzard has access to their servers and records. They know if your randomized 25-digit code is real, fake, active, or pending activation. Wal Mart does not. If you cannot understand that then you have no credibility in a debate about the distribution or handling of game accounts.

2. This game is different because Blizzard made it different, and they have specified well enough that it is different that anyone who cheats knows they can/will be banned for it.

OK Bob1052 since we've got this book analogy going.... with the books I'm not required to have the other three still taking up space in my lap in order to read the last one. The Expansions for the game have required the previous in order to function properly in the past. It is easier to install 1 large program without having to reinstall portions of it when you install the next piece of the Game. to install that much over time, Consumes hardrive space that not everyone that wishes to play can afford to set aside for blizzard(or honestly any game company). Now unless blizzard gets smart and makes them(each installment) stand alone and not require the others to play the latest then I have nothing to stand on

But this has nothing to do with people boycotting Blizzard for banning cheaters...

We now return you to your regularly scheduled ***** fest...... carry on

What if you use your mind as the hard drive and the books as a lengthy install process. Once you read them you know them. You need to remember the previous book for the current to make sense.