Poll: It's really time to stop supporting Blizzard

[xxcloud417xx]

"the company claims that single player Starcraft 2 games have an effect on multiplayer. ?While single player games only appear to be you and a computer at first, your achievements and gamer score also carries weight and prestige for your online play,? read the email"

This is Bullshit I used cheats on a map and found that it blocked out achievements afterward!

Wow Blizz... This is why I'm quitting WoW at the first sign of Old Republic Online... (Valve needs to make an MMO, at least they don't seem as corrupt and money hungry as most other Devs)

I hate how they never want to hear anyone out. They seem to think that everything they do is pure gold and is best for everyone. If anyone here plays WoW and has read some of the Blue Posts for the latest patch you know what I mean. Their entire attitude is that the players don't know shit and that they are the only ones that can possibly be right about anything.

For those who haven't read the Blue Posts they go a little bit like this :

Player: "This is stupid you're nerfing tanks and healers to the ground and now Tanks can't hold aggro. Change the rotations and cooldowns please!"

Blizzard : "We understand your complaints, however the rotations we created are supposed to be flawless so you must all be doing it wrong." (aka "Fuck off you stupid shit we know what's better for you than even you do!"

First of all, yea we all have hopes for Old Republic Online, but by now you have to skeptical or at least realize no MMO will kill WoW.

Second of all Blizzard does listen to their players, but a lot of wow players do not give good advice.

Finally, I can heal and hold aggro just fine...maybe it's time to look into your spec/gear/gems/rotation and stop blaming the game.

Never said I had an issue yet, but by reading the posts, the gist I got from them is this.

I'm also not looking for a WoW killer. I know WoW won't die unless Blizzard kills it themselves. I just want Old Republic to stand up straight and be a great MMO from a great Dev (I like Bioware a lot so I will admit I am biased) WoW doesn't need to die for SWToR to be good.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

You're right. Because I don't use Blizzard approved cheats I should be banned from the SP. If I actually want to use cheats not made by Blizzard I should be considered a guest. Makes total sense. I mean, I shouldn't have the right to do what I want with my game.

So by not actually coming up with a valid point, you've now turned this into a "why should a company dictate my actions" argument that has no grounds? Blizzard was kind enough to give you modding tools, stop spitting in their faces. Most companies don't do that! Blizzard is simply trying to protect the online integrity of the game, and yes, that does include achievements.

It's not letting me edit the game files and they're banning me for using something they did not approve. Hell, I'm not even hurting anybody. It's SINGLE PLAYER. It's MY SINGLE PLAYER. Does it really matter what I do to enjoy MY single player?

It's not just single player. Single player means there's no connection to the multiplayer portion of the game, however insignificant. Blizzard has a right to protect their integrity of an achievement system by banning people that use unfair means to obtain a higher score. It's just like a TILT function in a pinball machine. If you try to mvoe the ball in an unfair way by jostling the machine, it locks up and you atuomatically loose that ball. Everyone seemed to think that was fair. What's the difference here?

How is the multiplayer community affected again? Does it in any way impede gameplay? The problem with achievements in PC games is that you must maintain an internet connection. Why should I be forced to do so? Why should I partake in a closed network just so that a few people can gloat about their 1000 gamescore?

Whether you want to believe it or not, it does affect the online community. People do hold those symbols of prowess in higher regard than you. What you're arguing is that people who believe that achievements should be gotten legitimately should be shunned in favour of people who want to mod. This is the exact argument you're fighting except the other side. We believe people shouldn't be allowed to mod their games if they're connected online because it affects achievements.

Yeah those fucking assholes. They dared go against Blizzard and play the SP the way they wanted to. Those fucking bastards.

Yeah, those fucking bastards who cheated! Those who went directly against the Terms of Service of Battle.Net and instead of cutting themselves off completely from the online portion fot he game decided to boost and paid the price for it. God forbid, eh?

P.S. Sarcasm doesn't make your argument anymore valid. The point is that there's a difference between modding a game to not break the rules and then there's brekaing the rules at the expense of the integrity of a part of online community. Just because you don't care about online doesn't make it any less of a platform to be cogniscent about.

Why should I be forced to trick the game into thinking I'm a guest in order to play it the way I want to?

How is using an on board feature tricking it? You can only use the Guest option to play offline if you own the game. It's a large button on the right hand side. There's no trick involved. Also, I'd like to point out, you are tricking the game to begin with by using a trainer or mod because that's not the original gameplay!

Illegal? How is it illegal again? Also, whilst I can I have to trick the game into thinking I'm a guest, which I'm not.

It's against the ToS Blizzard has up on their website about not using third-party software when connected to Battle.Net. This is exactly what these players are being acused of and they know it. It isn't the fact they're modding offline, it's the fact they're modding online, whether it's through the single-player campaign or multiplayer matches. And yes, a ToS that is on full display on their website is legally binding. ISPs use it all the time and you are legally bound to obey it. It doesn't infringe on any rights because you still have your single-player content, it simply shuts down your achievements and ability to play online. That is it!

Online identity? By all means, put achievements in MP if it matters that much to you. Still, in order to put achievements in the SP they sacrificed my ability to do what I want with the game during SP.

They are online. I sign-in to my B.Net account and play the single-player campaign while connected online. Every achievement I have has been gotten online. I can say this with 100% honesty because when I was playing offline when the servers were down, I missed half the achievements for my runthrough of single player. You still have the choice to play offline if you wish and that is up to you whether you use it or not.

It matters, because I'm not a guest. I am the owner of that particular copy of the game. I should not have to lie to the game I'm a guest.

Again, what does it matter? Does this really kill you inside everytime you think about the fact that "boohoo, I don't get a personalized account for offline play"? What a strawman argument if I ever saw one. The fact you think achievements are bogus for offline play just shows you couldn't care less if you have an identity within the game for offline purposes. You just want to dick around and Blizzard has given you the option. Stop pretending to be hurt by something so trivial and come up with a real argument instead of this half-assed drivle.

Make the ability to switch your online profile to offline, just like steam allows you to.

And this is what really gets me. You own nothing on B.Net. All those achievements, all those neat icons, even your account itself is owned by Blizzard. It affects nothing within the offline portion fo the game because you can still play it just fine without a Blizzard account. Whether Steam chooses to make that a function within the game or not is their choice, much like it's Blizzard's choice not to have that function. They believe in this practice and if you don't like it, don't buy the game and don't play a cracked version and don't spread media about them because any press is good press. Instead, sit down, shut up and accept the fact that they use a business model you don't enjoy. Up until the moment another game company uses this model, you have no reason to ***** about it, which is exactly what you're doing with poor arguments founded either on speculation, trivial matters that don't affect your long-term goal with the product or strawman arguments.

The bottom line is this: you own nothing of the content Blizzard provides online. It is Blizzard's choice and business model to operate achievements online and to have "Guest" accounts for offline play. You have no right to tell Blizzard how to run their company and simply have the choice whether to purchase the game or not.

 

[Exort]

Yes banning them was harsh (reseting their progress would have been better) but cheating is still cheating, especially when they even have their won cheats in the game.

I won't be joining you I'm afraid. I'm still waiting in a WC4.

14 day ban isn't harsh at all to me...

 

[Best of the 3]

Yes banning them was harsh (reseting their progress would have been better) but cheating is still cheating, especially when they even have their won cheats in the game.

I won't be joining you I'm afraid. I'm still waiting in a WC4.

14 day ban isn't harsh at all to me...

Is that all it was? I haven't been following exactly. I thought it was a perma ban. Ah well ifit's only thing then no way am I boycotting Blizzard. That sounds about right.

 

[Nautical Honors Society]

"the company claims that single player Starcraft 2 games have an effect on multiplayer. ?While single player games only appear to be you and a computer at first, your achievements and gamer score also carries weight and prestige for your online play,? read the email"

This is Bullshit I used cheats on a map and found that it blocked out achievements afterward!

Wow Blizz... This is why I'm quitting WoW at the first sign of Old Republic Online... (Valve needs to make an MMO, at least they don't seem as corrupt and money hungry as most other Devs)

I hate how they never want to hear anyone out. They seem to think that everything they do is pure gold and is best for everyone. If anyone here plays WoW and has read some of the Blue Posts for the latest patch you know what I mean. Their entire attitude is that the players don't know shit and that they are the only ones that can possibly be right about anything.

For those who haven't read the Blue Posts they go a little bit like this :

Player: "This is stupid you're nerfing tanks and healers to the ground and now Tanks can't hold aggro. Change the rotations and cooldowns please!"

Blizzard : "We understand your complaints, however the rotations we created are supposed to be flawless so you must all be doing it wrong." (aka "Fuck off you stupid shit we know what's better for you than even you do!"

First of all, yea we all have hopes for Old Republic Online, but by now you have to skeptical or at least realize no MMO will kill WoW.

Second of all Blizzard does listen to their players, but a lot of wow players do not give good advice.

Finally, I can heal and hold aggro just fine...maybe it's time to look into your spec/gear/gems/rotation and stop blaming the game.

Never said I had an issue yet, but by reading the posts, the gist I got from them is this.

I'm also not looking for a WoW killer. I know WoW won't die unless Blizzard kills it themselves. I just want Old Republic to stand up straight and be a great MMO from a great Dev (I like Bioware a lot so I will admit I am biased) WoW doesn't need to die for SWToR to be good.

In my initial response i said "yea we all have high hopes for Old Republic Online" meaning I also want it to be good and I also like Bioware.

This was not the purpose of me responding to you.

I was more concerned with my last two statements. The SWtoR remark was a secondary issue.

 

[loremazd]

DRM is there to put restrictions on you, the paying customer.

For example, if you want to play a multiplayer game against a family member in the same household, previously you could use on disc and play over LAN. Now, thanks to the new DRM each person must have their own copy and their own BNET 2.0 account.

Don't like SC2? Wanna sell it to someone else since you have no use for it? Nope, the restrictions are on you.

That's what DRM is for.

CD-key are DRM but it doesn't do what you say? Im really confused now...
Seriously, DRM is there to make pirate harder.
No you don't own the game content, because owning the game content means you have the right to distribute it, same household doesn't justify you to pirate the game. It is like renting house doesn't give you the right to re-rent the house. People are alien to that idea because they have been doing it for a long time. Selling game is basiclly a long term renting game service in term of law. It is called copyright.

Wait, so you think that each person in a household should buy their own copy of a game?

You know when you rent a house on the agreement it clear say only who can live in it? it is just like that. No matter if someone is your parent as long their name is not on the agreement they can't live there. As long it is within copyright law Im ok. Im against thing like can only install 4 times for each CD or such (One person could need to install more than 4 times), but not to stop pirating. The Agreement in the game say only you an use the game like only you can rent this house.

So it is your belief that I am renting the game and therefore should not be able to let my GF or son play it unless I "rent" them a copy as well?

Does that work with other things? If I rent or BUY a movie can my entire family watch it or would we need to rent or BUY a copy for each member of the household?

I do hope that Bissel never finds out that we all use the same vacuum in this household. Oh no, we all use the same stove and refrigerator too.

This is all BS, why do so many gamers insist that the game industry deserves all this extra money that no other industry deserves?

This is why I didn't buy Starcraft II, the lack of LAN. I am not going to buy 3 copies of the game to play with family so therefore, I buy none at all. This nonsense doesn't help the industry.

You're not asking to watch a movie together, you're doing the equivalent of expecting every member of your household to be able to watch a movie using three different tvs simultaniously.

 

[Exort]

"the company claims that single player Starcraft 2 games have an effect on multiplayer. ?While single player games only appear to be you and a computer at first, your achievements and gamer score also carries weight and prestige for your online play,? read the email"

This is Bullshit I used cheats on a map and found that it blocked out achievements afterward!

Wow Blizz... This is why I'm quitting WoW at the first sign of Old Republic Online... (Valve needs to make an MMO, at least they don't seem as corrupt and money hungry as most other Devs)

I hate how they never want to hear anyone out. They seem to think that everything they do is pure gold and is best for everyone. If anyone here plays WoW and has read some of the Blue Posts for the latest patch you know what I mean. Their entire attitude is that the players don't know shit and that they are the only ones that can possibly be right about anything.

For those who haven't read the Blue Posts they go a little bit like this :

Player: "This is stupid you're nerfing tanks and healers to the ground and now Tanks can't hold aggro. Change the rotations and cooldowns please!"

Blizzard : "We understand your complaints, however the rotations we created are supposed to be flawless so you must all be doing it wrong." (aka "Fuck off you stupid shit we know what's better for you than even you do!"

The cheat they are refering is Third party hack not the build-in one. They Never have problem with build in cheats.
Really No matter what they do someone is going to QQ. They know what they are doing. Game developing is all about math, and player feedback most is about how they "feel"... No like they never been wrong. when they are they admit it (mutlipy times in interviews.) But really they are better at game making than a average player.

 

[Soods]

QQ:ing about this is like QQ:ing about failing at test after being caught cheating.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Compared to a number of other game companies Blizzard sells quality games. Despite my hatred for Activision I will support blizzard so long as they keep making good games.

Also, learn to read the EULA and stop cheating, all it does is make you look like a whiner who can't play and is too stupid to read.

Did you read the EULA?

I have actually, and the clause against using automated software of bots is at the top.

2. Additional License Limitations.
The license granted to you in Section 1 is subject to the limitations set forth in Sections 1 and 2 (collectively, the "License Limitations"). Any use of the Game in violation of the License Limitations will be regarded as an infringement of Blizzard's copyrights in and to the Game. You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:

b. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the experience;

 

[ScRaT_the_destroyer]

dude its their game not yours, break the terms of use/eula you deserve all you get

 

[migo]

Already boycotting them for being involved with Activision.

 

[Lordedubs]

Blizz is qqing all the way to the bank about your boycott

OT: Cheaters get what they deserve. If you cant play a game the way its meant to be played you have no business playing them in the first place.

If a game already has cheats built in they why use a trainer, your just asking for it.

 

[Exort]

That's right, I can watch a DVD without "renting" multiple copies and the same should be true of games. Why isn't it?

Can't I rip a DVD and make copies of it? Yes! So what exactly makes the game industry so vulnerable that it needs all this extra income er...I mean protections?

Because they is the lisence they sell you. But game Lisence only sell to one person, if they have a family deal then yes. Yes, you can copy the DVD as long you own an agreement, same with game you can copy it as many time as you want as long you have a agreement. The thing is they didn't cross the line of copyright like EA or MS did.

 

[loremazd]

So it is your belief that I am renting the game and therefore should not be able to let my GF or son play it unless I "rent" them a copy as well?

Does that work with other things? If I rent or BUY a movie can my entire family watch it or would we need to rent or BUY a copy for each member of the household?

I do hope that Bissel never finds out that we all use the same vacuum in this household. Oh no, we all use the same stove and refrigerator too.

This is all BS, why do so many gamers insist that the game industry deserves all this extra money that no other industry deserves?

This is why I didn't buy Starcraft II, the lack of LAN. I am not going to buy 3 copies of the game to play with family so therefore, I buy none at all. This nonsense doesn't help the industry.

Your refringerator doesn't have copyright (well it does but not that way)
Your movie example is a great example, but go check the agreement of your movie it should say for this household. Therefore they sell the agreement to a whole household, for private use. Therefore from legal standpoint, no you don't need sepert copy of movie for every member of the family. I hope that solve your question with Copyright, again I do understand it is a complex thing. Extra money for the industry? well, no one really stop you from give your account to your family member to play. The old DRM didn't. By the way, do you know how much people got layoff this year alone in this industry?

That's right, I can watch a DVD without "renting" multiple copies and the same should be true of games. Why isn't it?

Can't I rip a DVD and make copies of it? Yes! So what exactly makes the game industry so vulnerable that it needs all this extra income er...I mean protections?

Ok hotshot, lets use a correct analogy. You are not buying a DVD, you're buying a tennis racket. You can place tennis with one racket, just find a wall. However, in order for someone else to play with you you need another tennis racket.

That's so unfair.

 

[Seydaman]

While I do agree that banning someone for using single-player-only cheats is a bad thing, I'm going to be blunt and say that you're completely overreacting.

Here's what's most likely going on: Blizzard's system is designed to detect programs that function as exploits (a trainer falls under this qualification). Because of this, the system automatically flags the account using said trainer, and is automatically suspended. Frustrating, arguably wrong, but understandable.

What Blizzard should do here is change the detection system to look for exploits ONLY for online servers, while letting SP gamers do their thing.

This is certainly no reason to stop supporting Blizzard. Worse comes to worse, beat the game the old fashioned way; by the rules.

Pretty much that
And I'm not going to stop playing WoW
Just because you want me to.

 

[Do4600]

Am I the only person on the face of the planet that ACTUALLY READS the EULA agreement before agreeing to it? I plainly recall reading something in the EULA and thinking: "Well, guess this is the end of all the 'pot of gold' and 'hurry up guys' days"

So even to me, someone with limited legal knowledge, it was plain to me that if you use cheats in this game you're effectively taking your game license in your own hands and in the sights of the almighty ban hammer if they choose to exercise or enforce the contract.

So really, those users were effectively asking to be banned under the contract they agreed to before they played the game and the one they must agree to before they play after every patch.

 

[Mullahgrrl]

Uhm, it's not blizzard's fault noone read the fucking user agreement forum. Tough luck. their fault, move on

Oh please, everyone knows user agreements are just there to make everything LOOK professional.

I'm gonna guess that you are someone who skips down to the bottom (if you even have to) and clicks accept

So I suppose that you always read the eula before you ever buy a game.

If I hadn't cheated in the original then i would never have even come to the end of the terran campagin.

 

[Exort]

While I do agree that banning someone for using single-player-only cheats is a bad thing, I'm going to be blunt and say that you're completely overreacting.

Here's what's most likely going on: Blizzard's system is designed to detect programs that function as exploits (a trainer falls under this qualification). Because of this, the system automatically flags the account using said trainer, and is automatically suspended. Frustrating, arguably wrong, but understandable.

What Blizzard should do here is change the detection system to look for exploits ONLY for online servers, while letting SP gamers do their thing.

This is certainly no reason to stop supporting Blizzard. Worse comes to worse, beat the game the old fashioned way; by the rules.

No, there are build-in cheat that can be used in online single player. Blizzard ban people because they use third party hack to earn achievement through unfair means. If they use build in cheat code which disable acheivement it is completely fine with Blizzard.

 

[Caligulove]

No. Maybe you just shouldn't cheat and modify the game?
I actually see Blizzard's point in this one, and they're only minor suspensions. These weren't the Blizzard-created cheats and things that were included that negate any progress or achievements. These are other cheats and trainers, specifically. This isn't like using "power overwhelming" in the first StarCraft and getting banned from Battle.net- these are people that really did break the agreements that they consented to when they installed the game.

They broke the rules, Blizzard even warned of this happening. Now they get suspended. That's how it goes.
Boycotts never work, though. Another strategy like compromise with Blizzard and the Community