Poll: Jim sterling VS Extra credits

[Something Amyss]

Yes sexism in Xbox live is unacceptable and yes verbal jousting does cross the line, But If we followed the suggestions they say, it would be the death of free speech.

lolwut?

There is no right to free speech on a private service. You can already get banned on these services for hate speech. The issue is, moderation is slow and insufficient.

Where is the line between sexism, racism and bullying and at what point does it leave the realms of hate speech and into just having a different opinion?

Ahh, the slippery slope fallacy.

Jim sterling?s theory of immaturity being a good way to deal with unlikable people is what happens online 60% of the time. Here is an example of how jims logic works.

In the end, you both have the ability to silence each other through the use of mute, and fragging them is always the best option. Every time I hear A racist 12 year old from Indonesia, I (1) mute them (2) frag them (3) unmute them to see if they will act civil now(4) if not mute then warn my teammates, no need to ban anyone just ignore them or If they are to young to be playing the game mock them about there age and how they should ?really get of their mom?s computer? ??.simple

Yes, mocking internet trolls works really well.

Unless you want them to stop.

Seriously, when applied practically, this policy (which is the de facto existing policy) fails.

 

[DoPo]

In my opinion, there isn't really a point in comparing Jim and EC, as they simply don't deal in the same line of work.

I agree with that. I don't think a comparison is needed. Both have their good and bad points. Both have something to say and whether we decide to listen or not isn't going to change it. In fact, I believe some bullshit now and again is better, as I don't like being spoon fed a subject matter. If I can sift through it myself and find a meaning, I think it's better. I actually liked Jim more in the beginning. He absolutely hammered good points among some generic ranting whining and other BS. Saying "I don't agree with Jim because he's a dick" was stupid, as he had valid points. Saying the opposite was also stupid because he made effort to be a dick.

same with Extra Credits but on the other spectrum, I suppose. Take away some puppies and ranbows and you do have valid points. Not always, but the rest are still some things you can learn something from. Be it how not to do it or just a different perspective that might not sound smart.

Of course, none of those two shows is mandatory. Hell, discarding, one or the other or even both could still be a smart choice. Don't like it, don't watch it. None of these are a shining beacon of What Gamerism is About. They are just there in a pool of various other sources anybody can use.

 

[Lectori Salutem]

I like them both to be honest. Both have their good and bad points, like people already mentioned.

 

[Akytalusia]

i like them both, and i also expected backlash from EC's latest episode considering the antagonists to which they refered make up the greater portion of the gaming community. they employ the same social tactics against every social problem they address, and don't seem to realize they need to use much more subtle tactics when addressing issues from a minority position.

 

[TheScottishFella]

In my opinion, there isn't really a point in comparing Jim and EC, as they simply don't deal in the same line of work.

snip

Of course, none of those two shows is mandatory. Hell, discarding, one or the other or even both could still be a smart choice. Don't like it, don't watch it. None of these are a shining beacon of What Gamerism is About. They are just there in a pool of various other sources anybody can use.

But if we don't watch it we wont be able to complain about them D:

In all seriousness they are right. However telling people you don't have to watch them wont make a difference they still feel the need to complain about something that no longer involves them. which is why people who are judging a show that they haven't watched in ages so don't know if they have evolved since the last time they watch should really not even be commenting on this thread. Though that's my opinion.

Did this on my phone will clean it up later.

 

[linwolf]

EC takes opinions, present them as fact and use it to react a badly supported conclusion. As long as that doesn't change I have no interest in them or their show.

Jim is just as opinionated in his arguments, but he doesn't hide it and thereby I don't have to spend time separating the factual from the bullshit.

All in all I like Jim better as even when I disagree I can use his show to look at my own arguments. And I dislike EC as even when I agree I have to spend time else where just to be sure that what they said wasn't at least partly wrong.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

I like them both* And i understand and even agree with some of the reasons people hate both of them but at the same time i don't really think they're comparable, they both do two different types of shows.

EC is generally from a designers perspective, with lots of their material being for people who make or want to make games.

JS is generally from a consumers perspective with most of his material being for consumers of games.

*: just because i like both of their shows doesn't mean i agree with everything they say

 

[DrgoFx]

As much as I like EC, I do have to admit. They seem pretty full of themselves...more than Jim. Jim never outwardly, seriously says that his opinion is the correct and needs to be done. He just states his opinion. And half the time, he has very good opinions. Sometimes, along with EC, I think his opinion is totally out of whack and needs to be checked. But I think Jim puts a bit more thought into his discussions.

 

[spartandude]

I don't dislike Extra Credits, I just think they are kind of inoffensive and preach to the choir too much. Jim's got more bite, and actually calls out the groups that need to be called out.

im gonna agree with this bloke

i also felt as though with the Extra Credits episodes they never left on a conclusion of what to do

 

[Kunzer]

I enjoyed EC when they were here on the escapist.

I've come to realize, though, that they are highly idealistic; Jim tends to be far more realistic.

I haven't watched a single episode since they left The Escapist, therefore I posit that I never found them terribly compelling in the first place.

 

[CatmanStu]

I couldn't vote as I love (and hate) both shows equally.

Extra Credits is a show I enjoy watching for their refreshingly upbeat approach to discussion, with every episode not only looking at the effects of an issue but also trying to find the root cause and at least one constructive solution. (Note I said TRYING; just because you disagree with their solution doesn't negate the fact that they were trying.) The down side is that there is a sense of disconnect that they have with the viewer that can come across as patronising or aloof but I put that down to the politician syndrome. Their scripts are written by James who (if memory serves me correctly) works within the industry and as such has to be very careful what he says publically for fear of effecting his livelyhood in the same way you will never hear a politician say what he really feels. There will always be a certain level of spin.

Jimquisition is a completely different kettle of fish. Jim is on our side of the fence; he's one of us, a gamer. He is also clever enough to realise that WE are his livelyhood and as such he not only tries to reflect our feelings on game related mattters but also listens when we have criticism. The down side to this is that, in the videos at least, Jim has a tendancy to use sensational or one sided arguments as a way of generating debate (or trolling for short). Like Yahtzee, his videos are the desert to the meat and potatoes of his written content.

Both shows have intelligent, insightful, thought provoking moments but both have inevitable flaws drawn from the unique perspectives of the writers.

 

[Wintermoot]

why not both?
they both have good points on how to run the industry

 

[Hazy992]

I like Jim Sterling. You get insight of how the industry works without the pretentious bullshit you get with EC

 

[Something Amyss]

Another thing: Jim Sterling is a gamer. Extra Credits are games journalists. Big difference.

You can't be serious. You mean the guy who's an editor at Destructoid is not a games journalist and the guys who preach that understanding the media includes playing the media are not gamers?

 

[Mr Dizazta]

Another thing: Jim Sterling is a gamer. Extra Credits are games journalists. Big difference.

You can't be serious. You mean the guy who's an editor at Destructoid is not a games journalist and the guys who preach that understanding the media includes playing the media are not gamers?

The guys at Extra Credits are actually game developers and/or artists.

 

[Loonyyy]

Free speech protects your right to voice your opinions and views to the public. It does not protect your right to talk over xBox Live, as xBox Live is owned by Microsoft, and thus, they can make whatever decisions they like about it. In this case, restricting the free speech of some has no negative effect on society, so anyone crying free speech is ignorant as to what free speech is and why it exists.

Me, I enjoy both shows, although I find Jim Sterlings approach to be usually kind of simple. I'm rarely challenged when I watch his segments, since they're usually pretty similar to my first reaction to things. While I don't always agree with EC, I usually finish each episode having learned something I didn't know, rather than watching the big guy tell me to thank god for his ability to draw genitalia in MS paint.

 

[johnnnny guitar]

Ehhh I think Extra credits have had their run the latest episodes have just lost that spark that made them so enjoyable and they are getting pretentious with some of their episodes where there is an issue and rather than try to research and analise they just spout long words in a smart way to make it seem deep when really it's just shallow.
Now Jim on the other hand a man I one thought I would hate till the day I die has really fucking picked up his game making him my number one draw to the escapist.
He's saying what alot of gamers are thinking and hammering that home however he can get a bit ignorant but will often look into the subject further if people say your not looking at both sides well enough.

So yeah THANK GOD FOR JIM!!!

 

[Fappy]

EC came off as way too preachy to me and they always thought what they were saying was right.

At least Jim on the other hand does it in a more joking fashion and doesn't try to shove artistic stuff down my throat. He also did an entire episode about the Dynasty Warriors series which instantly gives him a lot of bonus points with me (despite never mentioning the music).

"This base is under my thumb!"

Yeah, the DW music was always my favorite part about the series.

 

[James Ennever]

Today I turned coats and ventured into PA to wach the weekly Extra credits, and there I realised something. That Jim sterling Knows more about the online gaming scene than the three of them combined.

Just so you know, I stopped taking anything you wrote seriously after "the death of free speech". Otherwise, the solution to hateful harassment isn't more hateful harassment and the fact you don't see this as obvious makes me suspect any opinions I lay out in front of you will be sort of a waste of time but I would want to at least ask you to meditate about the issue and your views on it a bit more before you start sharing your thoughts again.

South park, it is sexist if the topic of the episode needs an ironic spin.
republicans are racist old farts.

Would the world be better without these things?

 

[Signa]

For the record, to summarise what I'm about to say, my view on EC and Jim is that Jim is great at showing what the gaming community is really like, while EC do a great job of showing how games should be for maximum enjoyment. Also, to throw Yahtzee in, I always agree with his views on the games themselves (the nitpicking and such). However, in terms of what makes a 'good game', and enjoyment, I often disagree with him, simply because we're different people with different tastes in games. I loved Halo Wars, and RTS games in general, for example.

Therefore, and I speak as an aspiring developer myself, I think it should be an industry requirement that all game developers watch, as a matter of course, all three series. Zero Punctuation, Extra Credits, and Jimquisition. Because that way, developers will see what the community is like, what games today are like, what they could (and should) be like, and will have a wide variety of imputs to how to develop their games. In addition, game developers should keep a close eye on the gaming community, in order to see exactly what gamers do and don't want. However, developers shouldn't always pander to the masses, because the gamers aren't the developers and thus they have no clue about how games really are made, unless they're actually interested in behind-the-scenes stuff or are gamers working in the industry. My (controversial) example here is that Mass Effect 3 would have been a damn sight worse if Bioware had simply pandered to the gamers from the off. Yes, I brought THAT up. Sue me.

If game developers did this, we would see an industry lacking in the banes that it seems to continuously employ (including, but not limited to, draconian DRM and copy-pasting games without innovation - I'm looking at you, CoD...), and more new and innovative, and more importantly, fun, games that people will actually want to play. Game development needs to be a two-way process. The gamers shouldn't have full control over the development, but at the same time, the developers should still look to their customers to see just what said customers actually want, and then tailor-make a great product that everyone can enjoy.

And for the record, this is exactly why indie gaming is on the rise. Because indie developers tend to be gamers who have decided to build their own game from scratch while still being firmly rooted in the community itself. Yes, most developers are gamers anyway. Kind of a job requirement, almost, to enjoy playing games in the first place. But they are disconnected from the community as a whole, I've noticed, and that's how we end up with things like 'always-online DRM' and the like. Indie developers have the advantage, because they are still connected to, and part of, the wider community, and so they have a better viewpoint of what gamers do and don't want to see. And yes, I realise I've drifted way off topic, so I'll just leave this opinion here and move on. Feel free to quoe me or PM me if you agree, or disagree, on any of my points...

Alright, I'll quote you. Love your post. There's a few points in there where "developers" needs to be replaced with "publishers". More often than not, publishers are the ones causing the problems, but I get your point anyway.