Poll: Jim sterling VS Extra credits

[Num1d1um]

Care to tell me why they could not possibly be wrong laws? I'm not disputing the existence of those laws. I'm saying they infringe freedom of speech and should be rewritten or abolished.

You'll first have to explain to me why you feel you have the right to verbally and sexually harass a woman just for having different chromosomes and she is legally required to sit there and take it.

You didn't understand what I was saying. She isn't legally required to sit there and take it. By not listening to it, she is taking her own right of exposure away, which is a part of free speech. Freedom of speech works two ways. And by taking away her ability to listen to what I say, you're infringing hers and mine. Now, as regards to why i have the right to insult her if I wanted to. Because my civil or human, whichever you prefer, constitutionally granted right of universal freefom of expression and speech allows me to do so. That's why.

 

[Valis88]

Personally,I like Jim sterling, he's the guy that sits down and plays the games with you, he's right there, and gets mad bout things that make you a gamer mad. You can tell he's passionate about games, and the games that he plays...he's a gamer just like us. I find so many of his points valid, and insightful. I love this 'argue immaturity with more immaturity', and his wonderful 'thank god for me'. He's always entertaining, and I agree with him most of the time.

Extra Credits all ways felt like that guy standing behind you as you play the games, sipping on a latte and telling you how you should think and feel about something. Often times EC felt like a lecture, or it felt like I was being 'told', and talked down to. The show just never appealed to me really.

...but that's just my 2 copper.

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

The industry should listen to us. But if I had to choose I'd say Jim.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

Botht the Jimquisition and Extra Credits provide insightful, factual, well-researched topics and expert opinions to topics both in and out of the video game community. The both listen to their followers and are always looking out for gamers and those who deal in the game realm.

The industry should be paying attention to both shows in order to learn how to better serve their consumers and appease to the gamers in general.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

Jim. Every time I watch him, I'm about to start shouting "YES! YES!!!!"

 

[Phlakes]

Neither is wrong, and there's no reason to put them against each other. Opinions are opinions are subjective are opinions and they're all valid and credible.

 

[him over there]

The industry should listen to us. But if I had to choose I'd say Jim.

Thread winner right here everybody, we can go home now.

 

[ShotgunZombie]

Such open hostility towards EC yet the poll says otherwise, makes you think don't it? Anyway I'm going to paraphrase Jim by saying that if you like EC then you win, if like Jim then you also win but if you're like me and like both then you win twice.

 

[newdarkcloud]

I really like both shows, but for different reasons and Jim is my preference.

Jim's arguments tend to have more weight with me because he calls out people who NEED to be called out and isn't afraid to say it like it is.

Extra Credits is much more idealistic, which is both a strength and weakness. On one hand, they're always extremely civil and tend to worry about solutions to many problems. On the other hand, they seem a little too preachy at times.

 

[AncientSpark]

When I watch Extra Credits now I usually cringe at how their artsy pretentiousness is played straight and they actually take what they say seriously. Also James oversells himself, he is the "CEO" of Rainmaker Games which is pretty much a title that lets him gallivant all over the place advising, talking and writing about videogame development of which he has little to nil experience. The dude is a sleazy conman who only seems to want to stroke his own ego.

Here's a perfect example of why I think so many people feel EC is pretentious.

English majors are often criticized for their overanalysis of books. Those outside the major are like "There's no way the writer came up with 'this this symbol this motif that'", etc., as they feel English majors overglorify their favorite medium. English majors likewise find that most other people don't understand their points because they don't live working with the medium everyday. Of course, you also see film critics go through the same thing (I think MovieBob regularly has to deal with this and he regularly rants about, if need be).

It's also why I am feeling a little miffed that "pretentious" is the term everyone has chosen to use.

Really guys? You're acting like having some kind of idealism is somehow BAD for the industry. While I do like Sterling's show, while I do sometimes not watch some of EC's shows if they don't interest me, and while I do see where people are coming from when they say EC is a "preachy" show...I am pretty annoyed that people somehow are treating the heavy scrutiny of gaming as a culture from any place other than the consumer's point of view, the non-"artsy" view, is somehow "pretentious".

If that is so pretentious, then what do you want games to be? Do you want the medium to go forward or not? Because all other mediums have been influenced in various ways by the "artsy" view as well as the "common" view.

Or am I suddenly misunderstanding the argument of what makes EC pretentious? Because I want to really hear how the "artsy" view is somehow automatically pretentious.

 

[Elamdri]

Free Speech does cover screaming insults at people. It covers everything, that's why it's called Free Speech. On topic, I like Sterling, he makes good points.

Except that Free Speech doesn't exist on Xbox live.

 

[Num1d1um]

Free Speech does cover screaming insults at people. It covers everything, that's why it's called Free Speech. On topic, I like Sterling, he makes good points.

Except that Free Speech doesn't exist on Xbox live.

Right. Not what I was arguing.

 

[DJDarque]

I used to prefer Extra Credits over Jim Sterling, but I've lately found my opinion of them shifting. I still like watching Extra Credits, but I often agree moreso with Jim.

Jim has more of the "This is bullshit!" attitude towards addressing problems, while Extra Credits tries to take the "high road" and offer compromises which they think will leave both parties most satisfied. I can understand their approach, but on a personal level I think Jim resonates more with the individual, and I have grown to like him better.

As for which one the game industry should listen to. Well, that's a toughy.

 

[doomspore98]

Well EC is run by a bunch of pretentious dicks who dont ever know what the fuck they are talking about. Jimquisition on the other hand is just done by a complete fucking asshole but only spews bullshit out of his ass half the time. He does still occasionally make valid points.

If I had to choose one or the other I would go with Jim simply because he knows what he is talking about more often then never.

Can you give some examples on why they don't know what the fuck their talking about. If your just going to say that THEY IS STUPID, at least give us the reason why THEY IS STUPID.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I'm not going to say any bull about freedom of speech, but doesn't it just seem sort of silly and superfluous? If you don't like what they are saying you can mute them for yourself, people who do want to here them will here them and it doesn't deprive them of a voice when talknig with a friend over co-op or something.

That's just it, the Extra Credits crew specifically said that it wasn't Perma-mute, it was default mute. The friend can just click un-mute. So can anyone. The idea is that the fact that they start muted is a signal to players to be warned - this person is known for behaving badly.

Yes, hate speech is free speech. Anyone has the right to hate you, the right to express that, and the right to insult you. Free speech doesn't only cover their right to express, it also covers your right to be exposed to what they have to say. Asserting "incorrect behaviour", like you have some kind of moral authority on what is correct and what is not, or on what constitutes free speech, is ridiculous. You're not the one to limit other's right to be exposed to what anyone has to say to them just because you found it offensive or mean. By that, you're actually taking their right of free speech away, instead of warning or protecting them.

Actually, you are wrong on several points.

Point 1) Screaming insults at someone, in public, can get you arrested. It is legally considered assault. Stating politely that you dislike them is free speech - verbally attacking them is an attack. Legally.

Point 2) Freedom of Speech is not legally protected during video game chat. If the game creators decide to limit your speech in game, they are FULLY and LEGALLY allowed to do so. You have no protections for Free Speech in a video game. The game's creators are protected according to free speech, but the players are not. Legally.

Point 3) As noted above, the auto-mute option is a default setting, NOT permanent. A player's friend can undo the mute - that player merely starts muted when first interacting with new players (in the design that Extra Credits suggested). Any player has the choice to unmute an individual, or remute them when desired.

Point 4) I am not asserting moral authority - the games creators would be in that hypothetical situation. And they entirely do have the right to make that call. As noted above, their decision to mute players they disapprove of is covered by their rights as the games creators. You, a player, have only one response - stop playing.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Theres a fucking mute button for a reason. Just because people elect not to use it... ah fuck who cares.

 

[JSDodd]

Wow, I wasn't aware Extra Creditz got so much hate. I honestly prefer them because it's nice to see a more "high road" approach to gaming issues every now and then. Don't get me wrong, I like Jim's rabble-rousing style but EC looks at topics from a more concilliatory position, which is often to the best way to bring about actual change.

 

[deathzero021]

meh i don't really care. I like Jim's videos more, maybe because they're kinda funny and i do agree with him on many things. Extra Credits on the other hand, is kinda boring. only a few earlier episodes interested me but now it seems like they're always behind or can't think of anything to talk about.

so basically EC's episodes tend to be a hit or miss, with most missing.
and Jim's are, if not enlightening, at least entertaining.

as for the industry, they need to pay attention to this whole site, and the damn customers.

 

[Num1d1um]

Since I wasn't even arguing any of the other points and I'm fully aware that human rights play no role in dedicated online services, I'll respond to this: Point 1) Screaming insults at someone, in public, can get you arrested. It is legally considered assault. Stating politely that you dislike them is free speech - verbally attacking them is an attack. Legally.

As I said before, I am aware of the legal situation, but as I also said before, that's not how it should be, and, just like with the death penslty in fact, US laws are simply breaking human rights. As the other guy said, I'm trying to talk to you on an ideological level about how freedom of speech as a right is supposed to work.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

*Walks in*

EC isn't here anymore, thus I don't watch them. I did check them out occasionally but Jim Stirling has been more fun and has been making good points recently. I don't necessarily agree with him all the time (I know, I'm a heretic) but I enjoy the episodes nonetheless.

As it is I think the industry should listen to both sources. However it would be nicer if they scrolled down the comment sections of those speaking out about the industry to see what their customers are thinking, not just the pundits.

In terms of which show I like better? Jim Sterling has been more fun and pretty informative. If he left the Escapist I think I would follow him offsite. I have not done that with EC.

Well, that's that.

[sub][sub][sub]I'm too lazy to scan but did anyone say the obligatory "No vs threads" post?[/sub][/sub][/sub]

*walks out*