Poll: KotoR vs KotoR 2 (Mods allowed!)
- Thread starter BrotherRool
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For me Kotor, loved Revan and it was a better way to introduce me to me to star wars again, was a big fan as a little kid and kind of fell out of it then Kotor happened. But I find it odd so many people are saying Kotor 2 is better becuase of gameplay, story and graphics...that is how a sequel works right, it is meant to be an improvement? Besides I see Kotor as the story setter for Kotor 2, kind of like new hope being the story setter to empire.
UnusualStranger said:
You can say that the characters in KOTOR 1 had "deep" stories because of their "angst" or whatever. But they are all personal backstories, and that's all they are. What do they really add to the main plot? How are any of the characters besides Carth, Bastila, and Canderous related to the whole Jedi Civil War/Mandalorian War ???
They're not. None of them are related nor do they give you their own opinions on anything regarding the actual storyline. You have Mission, Juhani, Jolee all talking about themselves, but never anything related to the story. They are character archetypes, characters you've seen in countless other RPGs, they are just there for the sake of having a new character and to fill a character archetype.
See in the sequel guys like G0T0, Handmaiden, Visas, heck even T3 would give you information about things you actually had to know regarding the main plot, you talk to them and you will gain knowledge of the story, the republic, the Sith, they tell you stuff that are related to the ACTUAL story.
After finishing both games I realized how ridiculously unimportant your party members are in KOTOR 1. I mean a lot of them are not really related to the story at all, they are just there to fill an archetype. The second game actually had party members who mattered and is related to the story, meaning you have to talk to your party members to get the full storyline/plot, or else things won't make sense.
Here are the characters in KOTOR 1:
Juhani - Not related to the story at all except for her little Taris backstory, but why is she even there, to fill the archetype of the badass alien chick I guess.
HK-47 - Not really important except for the sand people translation. Other than that he's not very related to the plot, isn't that important but has funny "meatbag" lines.
T3 - Completely useless and not related to the story after Taris. Fills the "R2-D2" role I guess.
Jolee - Pretty much not related to the story, doesn't really care about the Republic or anything, preserves animals, he's the "old cranky Jedi character" in the game.
Zalbarr - Just barely any relation to the story except for his one required side-plot, plus he has NO, I mean NO opinion on anything. He was the strong wookie archetype I guess.
Mission - Fills the happy sidekick archtype character, but really has absolutely nothing to do with the main plot.
So the only characters that give you any information on the history or the backstory is Canderous, Bastila and Carth, they are the only ones who drive the story and tells you stuff about the past and the Mandalorian Wars and Malak.
Now here are the KOTOR 2 characters:
Bao-Dur - This guy is the reason Malachor V blew up, he was your comrade during the Mandalorian Wars, so he follows you now to put an end to things.
Atton - Also served in the Mandalorian War, also served under the Republic and the Sith, although he didn't talk about it too much he still has relation to the plot, and his encounter with Sion towards the end makes more sense. I think he even mentioned fighting on Dxun when you land there.
Kreia- The sole reason why this whole KOTOR 2 exists. She is the plot.
Hk-47 - No longer just a droid with funny "Meatbag" one-liners, in this game he serves as the voice of Revan. Since Revan couldn't be in the game, HK-47 speaks for him in a way, if you unlock his dialogue, he has tons of information regarding Revan, his philosophies, his tatics, the Republic, the Sith, I thought he was the best and biggest improvement in the writing department from KOTOR 1 to KOTOR 2.
G0T0 - He is one of the main reasons why the Republic has gone to hell in a handbasket, it's because of this guy. But you have to unlock his dialogue to know that though, and it's pretty hard to gain influence with him. Talking to him alone will solve at least 2 or 3 plot holes in the game (which you thought were plot holes but really isn't).
Hanharr - If you go LS he would be manipulated by Kreia. DS path, he has little to do with the main plot, but still the best Wookie ever in any SW stories.
Handmaiden - She is the bodyguard of your former master, and she will tell you stuff regarding your former master, plus the secret Jedi Academy.....and also important info on another member in your party.
Visas - She has also been affected by the Mandalorian War, in a sense she survived her own war, and now she follows you.
Disciple - Works for the Republic, and follows you to get things back in order.
T3 - Unlike the first KOTOR, he saves your butt a million times, and plus he is information overload. You want to find out what happened to the Ebon Hawk, or Revan, then talk to him as much as you can. He will tell you tons of stuff.
Mandalore - The only character who I thought was a bit unnecessary, but he obviously fought in the Mandalorian Wars, had tons of history with Revan, and tells you where Revan has disappeared to.
Mira - The only party member who probably doesn't have to do with the main story.
So in KOTOR 2, only Mira had very little to do with the story.
Tragedy said:
Sion's role is much more improved if you play a female Exile, there's actually a reason he's chasing you. If you're a male Exile, then yeah he's just a psycho dude.
As for Nihilus, I didn't really understand his role in the story either. Like....why is a boss in the story? I know he's the lone survivor of the Malachor V thing, but still...if they made him into an NPC which you can interact with that would be so much better. Or maybe this just went over my head.
In my opinion, Kotor 2 is just better.
Influence is one of the best things, it gives you the option to make characters jedi. It simply allows you to make another
use the force, kotor doesnt do this.
Storyline; You may disagree, but i think kotor 2 has a very good storyline, and almost the same main objective as the first one; Go to several different planets looking for something.
The ending is good for me, because throughout the game you hear about Malachor V, and then at the end, you go there, i just like that
.
Kreia's morality may be leaning towards the darkside, although she is supposedly neutral, however, what can you really expect from the one who is the Lord of the sith...
There are many reasons for me, and it may seem strange, but i much prefer HK-47 in kotor 2, which leads me on to the next reason, restored content.
The game would undoubtedly be better with this content in it, however due to a lack of time, they are not, but with mods you can unlock great things, such as the HK-50 factory, M4-78 and many, many new cutscenes, some of the best cutscenes are at Malachor V, Atton's Death, Disciples Death, Handmaiden asks to come with the Exile, the party VS Traya. HK-47 Vs GO-TO, so (with mods) kotor 2 is best!!
The best thing is, ive played it through 7 times, and i still havent done it all
Influence is one of the best things, it gives you the option to make characters jedi. It simply allows you to make another
use the force, kotor doesnt do this.
Storyline; You may disagree, but i think kotor 2 has a very good storyline, and almost the same main objective as the first one; Go to several different planets looking for something.
The ending is good for me, because throughout the game you hear about Malachor V, and then at the end, you go there, i just like that
. Kreia's morality may be leaning towards the darkside, although she is supposedly neutral, however, what can you really expect from the one who is the Lord of the sith...
There are many reasons for me, and it may seem strange, but i much prefer HK-47 in kotor 2, which leads me on to the next reason, restored content.
The game would undoubtedly be better with this content in it, however due to a lack of time, they are not, but with mods you can unlock great things, such as the HK-50 factory, M4-78 and many, many new cutscenes, some of the best cutscenes are at Malachor V, Atton's Death, Disciples Death, Handmaiden asks to come with the Exile, the party VS Traya. HK-47 Vs GO-TO, so (with mods) kotor 2 is best!!
The best thing is, ive played it through 7 times, and i still havent done it all
Also, what some of you don't know is that Kreia (Traya) is the master of Nihilus and Sion, which is why they are in the game, i hope this clears it up.
Kotor 1 without a doubt. The storyline was so much better, I like Kotor 2 but I LOVE Kotor 1. One of the reasons why I got an Xbox last gen. Sure Kotor 2 let's you start out as a Jedi, but the storyline wasn't as engaging. Also the ending is bad, Kotor 1 had great characters and everything, it's as close to RPG perfection as you can get.
KOTOR 2 was one of those "brilliant but flawed" games, where it's fantastic if you can overlook the bugs, the obviously rushed ending, and the dummied-out quest chains.
KOTOR 1 is a classic Star Wars story competently told by Bioware, but lacking the complexity and ambition of the sequel. It's enjoyable but not outstanding.
If I had to pick one I'd pick KOTOR 2, primarily because;
1. I liked Kreia as a subversion of the wise mentor cliche often used in Star Wars, and the way the game avoided the Bioware-standard "puppy-kicking versus puppy-charity" moral dilemmas.
2. I liked how the protagonist's backstory was slowly filled in as the game progressed, with a sense of mystery over what great crime happened at Malachor and the ability of the player to actually determine what happened in the backstory by the conversations they had in the present.
3. The ability to determine the alignment of your party members by your own actions towards them was really something special. Later Bioware games have just dumped alignments entirely or reinterpreted them like in Mass Effect, but Obsidian instead chose to make the alignment of your party malleable in a believable fashion - none of them were so fully good that they could avoid being made evil, or vice versa.
KOTOR 1 is a classic Star Wars story competently told by Bioware, but lacking the complexity and ambition of the sequel. It's enjoyable but not outstanding.
If I had to pick one I'd pick KOTOR 2, primarily because;
1. I liked Kreia as a subversion of the wise mentor cliche often used in Star Wars, and the way the game avoided the Bioware-standard "puppy-kicking versus puppy-charity" moral dilemmas.
2. I liked how the protagonist's backstory was slowly filled in as the game progressed, with a sense of mystery over what great crime happened at Malachor and the ability of the player to actually determine what happened in the backstory by the conversations they had in the present.
3. The ability to determine the alignment of your party members by your own actions towards them was really something special. Later Bioware games have just dumped alignments entirely or reinterpreted them like in Mass Effect, but Obsidian instead chose to make the alignment of your party malleable in a believable fashion - none of them were so fully good that they could avoid being made evil, or vice versa.
KotoR 2 is garbage.
I'm sorry, but there it is. The game is a -mess-. There is -one- likeable new character, Mira. I'll throw G0-T0 in there too, although I'm not a fan. But the rest of your crew fits into three camps:
A: Loathsome - Kreia, Hanharr, slight Atton.
B: Boring. - Bao-Dur, Visas, Handmaiden, Disciple, Hanharr, Atton.
C: From the original KotoR. Mandalore, T3, and HK-47.
There's some overlap on A and B.
The game was released unfinished. BUP BUP BUP. I don't want to hear about how that isn't Obsidian's fault, this isn't about Obsidian, this is the game. Partial credit not awarded for when fans have to clean it up for you. The ending is a mess. The opening act of Peragus/Telos takes for fucking ever and is boring as hell. The plot is basically nonexistent, and essentially leads up to a series of climaxes. It's a game with strong potential and no payoff.
I'm sorry, but there it is. The game is a -mess-. There is -one- likeable new character, Mira. I'll throw G0-T0 in there too, although I'm not a fan. But the rest of your crew fits into three camps:
A: Loathsome - Kreia, Hanharr, slight Atton.
B: Boring. - Bao-Dur, Visas, Handmaiden, Disciple, Hanharr, Atton.
C: From the original KotoR. Mandalore, T3, and HK-47.
There's some overlap on A and B.
The game was released unfinished. BUP BUP BUP. I don't want to hear about how that isn't Obsidian's fault, this isn't about Obsidian, this is the game. Partial credit not awarded for when fans have to clean it up for you. The ending is a mess. The opening act of Peragus/Telos takes for fucking ever and is boring as hell. The plot is basically nonexistent, and essentially leads up to a series of climaxes. It's a game with strong potential and no payoff.
Throws up an interesting question I guess - does a character have to be likeable to be good?
I definitely agree that a number of the characters in the game have loathsome qualities - though I don't think any of them (even Hanharr) could be described as purely loathsome, they're all a bit more multifaceted than that. I think it's a triumph on the writers' part that they managed to include characters that get such a strong reaction, mileage on that obviously varies though.
I definitely agree that a number of the characters in the game have loathsome qualities - though I don't think any of them (even Hanharr) could be described as purely loathsome, they're all a bit more multifaceted than that. I think it's a triumph on the writers' part that they managed to include characters that get such a strong reaction, mileage on that obviously varies though.