Poll: Lack of basic mathmatical skills

[Owen Robertson]

Well I'm studying Math and would like to be a Mathematician or a Physicist, because I find Math fun, I don't know why but it entertains me a lot and even when it's frustrating I feel really good when I solve a problem, but sadly I'm not very good at it, but I think that if I keep practising I'll eventually get good at it, I got discouraged from trying before when I took the stupid IQ test and it said that my IQ was below average, but I have decided that IQ is irrelevant and I can do anything I want.

Damn the captcha says "Pipe Dream", I'm pretty sure it's mocking me.
[sub]Obviously my answer it's pretty important.[/sub]

... Hope is simultaneously Humanity's greatest strength and it's greatest weakness.
Fuck dat test!
You go do some Math and be like" Yeah! Fuck you Math! I got you, ************!" and then Math will be like "Oh yeah?! You met my cousin Physics?!" then you'll be like "*****, please! I could do that in my sleep!" then Math and Physics beat the shit out of you and you become a Gym teacher.

I'm sorry. That last bit was just funny to me. Follow your dream.

 

[an874]

It's a big deal to me. My undergraduate degree is a B.S. in Applied Mathematics, with two engineering minors. Not to mention I'm studying Mechanical Engineering to obtain my Master's. It doesn't get more prevalent than that.

 

[Syzygy23]

Lately I have been noticing a disturbing trend on Facebook. People post simple math problems, and others will post the answer. The issue being that usually 60% or more of the people commenting get these problems wrong.

The order of Operations dictates what order you should follow when calculating a string of basic function math (I.E. 1+5*5-7/1*9). Many people on Facebook are doing the problem from left to right, and this is just not the correct way to do math. When you get a multiple function math problem you follow the Order of Operations to ensure you end up at an accurate number.

The Order of Operations is P.E.M.D.A.S.
Parenthesis
Exponents
Multiplication
Division
Addition
Subtraction

An easy way to remember the order is with the phrase Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally (I thought everyone was taught this in elementary school). By doing your math in this order you will ensure an accurate result, and we can all rest a bit easier knowing that our country will at least be able to balance their checkbooks.

To encourage discussion what is your highest level of Mathematical knowledge, and how do you use it in your job/hobby/every day life?

The Mnemonic method I was taught was

Please
Excuse
My
Dear
Aunt
Sally

I find it much easier to remember the order of operations with that rather than PEMDAS.
What the FUCK is a PEMDAS?

My issue with such things, like the order of operations, is nobody will explain WHY we HAVE to use the order of operations. Why is using any other method not legitimate?

 

[Darkmantle]

Well, division is multiplication by the reciprocal. I'm not entirely sure when the order of the two would matter that much. I'm pretty sure you can switch subtraction/addition around and it would still give you the same result.

Not at all. 7/1*9 can either be 7*9 or 7/9 which are totally different.

No, it can't. The difference is that you tried to add Parenthesis/Brackets to the equation that didn't exist in the original notation.

7/1*9 =/= 7/(1*9)

the simple answer is when you write something like this "7/2", it is unclear whether it is a fraction or a straight division. It's just a trick question, in the notation, and doesn't often truly represent someone's math skills. The honest thing to do is to add a set of brackets to clear things up.

(7/1)*9 OR 7/(1*9)

7/1*9 = ambiguous and purposely obtuse.

 

[Zeraki]

Hurrah for having a learning disability and being classified neurologically impaired in the New Jersey public school system(that was sarcasm, it sucked freshly castrated donkey balls).

Math has always been my greatest Achilles Heel(well that and crippling anxiety issues). No matter how hard a tried, I could just never 'get it' and keep up with everyone else. I can do enough to get by, but my math skills are deplorable compared to most likely everyone else on this entire site.

 

[Roggen Bread]

I don't understand your question.
I studied Biomedical Engineering and I am currently making my Master's.

So yeah, you could say, I do know my way in mathematics. But I don't give a shit about it.
I am no mathematician, I am no theoretical physicist, I am no rheologist. I am an engineer.

Maths is my tool, not my life. I also hate doing maths for the sake of doing maths. If I am constructing, or calculating a trajectory or a concentration or doing automatic control engineering etc, okay, I do it. With maths.

But integrate the follwing term just for having it integrated? No. Screw this.

 

[Rems]

The Mnemonic method I was taught was

Please
Excuse
My
Dear
Aunt
Sally

I find it much easier to remember the order of operations with that rather than PEMDAS.
What the FUCK is a PEMDAS?

My issue with such things, like the order of operations, is nobody will explain WHY we HAVE to use the order of operations. Why is using any other method not legitimate?

The op says that PEMDAS is simply an acronym of Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally.

As to why we use orders of operations, it's established convention. If everyone did maths however they felt like they'd get different answers. That wouldn't bode well for anything involving maths with multiple people involved (like engineering, programming or a multitude of other occupations). It's all about consistency.

 

[Exterminas]

I think people are just having problems solving these math problems on the internet, since they are not used to the wierd presentation in Times New Roman, or whatever font you use. After all, everyone learns math in their own handwriting and in the school's font, which vastly differs from how you spell stuff on the internet.

In addition to that, math is by no means the be all and end all of education. When I got my High School degree, I was one of the best math students of my entire year. Now I study something non-math-related and I haven't had to solve a single equation in the past three years.

Granted, basic skills in logic are requirred everywhere, and math is a pretty good training, but the vast majority of jobs out there can live without people knowing how to solve math problems, as long as they are able to use a calculator.

 

[Darkmantle]

Lately I have been noticing a disturbing trend on Facebook. People post simple math problems, and others will post the answer. The issue being that usually 60% or more of the people commenting get these problems wrong.

The order of Operations dictates what order you should follow when calculating a string of basic function math (I.E. 1+5*5-7/1*9). Many people on Facebook are doing the problem from left to right, and this is just not the correct way to do math. When you get a multiple function math problem you follow the Order of Operations to ensure you end up at an accurate number.

The Order of Operations is P.E.M.D.A.S.
Parenthesis
Exponents
Multiplication
Division
Addition
Subtraction

An easy way to remember the order is with the phrase Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally (I thought everyone was taught this in elementary school). By doing your math in this order you will ensure an accurate result, and we can all rest a bit easier knowing that our country will at least be able to balance their checkbooks.

To encourage discussion what is your highest level of Mathematical knowledge, and how do you use it in your job/hobby/every day life?

The Mnemonic method I was taught was

Please
Excuse
My
Dear
Aunt
Sally

I find it much easier to remember the order of operations with that rather than PEMDAS.
What the FUCK is a PEMDAS?

My issue with such things, like the order of operations, is nobody will explain WHY we HAVE to use the order of operations. Why is using any other method not legitimate?

Third paragraph, first sentence. And you must do multiplication before addition because multiplication is merely a series of additions. Look at this question.

I have 5 apples. I received three stacks of 10 apples in the morning, but sold 20 apples by closing time. How many apples are left?

Equation: 5 + 10 * 3 - 20. The question is simple enough that we know the answer, its 15, if you break the order of operations, you will not get the correct answer. This is demonstrably correct.

the multiplication is a single unit, 3*10 cannot be broken apart. It is, in essence, a single number. We must solve for the single number, before adding it to other single numbers.

 

[Tanis]

I like math, at least in the 'SCIENCE/LEARNING FUK YEAH!' type of a deal...

I just SUCK at it.

 

[Ryan Hughes]

I was in advanced math all throughout elementary school, then when entering middle school, I scored average on one placement test, and ended up having to basically repeat a year of math knowledge. It was so boring I hated math ever since, and only finished up to pre-calc.

I have serious problems with how math is taught in schools here in America, and I think that approaches from places like Asia -where they often use abacui instead of calculators- would be worth a look. Also, when teachers tried to turn math into a "race" or other competition, I found myself losing interest altogether.

 

[Darkmantle]

Well, division is multiplication by the reciprocal. I'm not entirely sure when the order of the two would matter that much. I'm pretty sure you can switch subtraction/addition around and it would still give you the same result.

Not at all. 7/1*9 can either be 7*9 or 7/9 which are totally different.

No, it can't. The difference is that you tried to add Parenthesis/Brackets to the equation that didn't exist in the original notation.

7/1*9 =/= 7/(1*9)

the simple answer is when you write something like this "7/2", it is unclear whether it is a fraction or a straight division. It's just a trick question, in the notation, and doesn't often truly represent someone's math skills. The honest thing to do is to add a set of brackets to clear things up.

(7/1)*9 OR 7/(1*9)

7/1*9 = ambiguous and purposely obtuse.

It isn't ambiguous though. It being a fraction and it representing a division are the same thing. There is only one clear answer there, no ambiguity if you know the rules.

no, it's ambiguous. And it gets more ambiguous when you reach a level where you commonly have multiple numbers under a division sign. Slopes is where it starts I believe. The problem lies with the way fractions are written on paper. the numerator on top of the denominator. It's difficult to write it like that in print, so you condense it to one line.

It is easy to mistake 7/1*9 for 7/(1*9) in print, but no one would make that mistake on paper.

Those trick questions only exist to make people feel better about themselves by fooling other people. Giving the person who posted it, or others, an excuse to call other people dumb, and call the question simple.

A more proper way to write it without brackets would be something like 7/2 * 9. The spaces show a clear separation, anyone serious would have written it that way. Again, it is bunched together to make it ambiguous. This "7/2*9" looks like it's one operation instead of two. I'd have to say that the dumber person is the one who neither used proper spacing nor brackets when typing math equations on the computer.

Certain concessions need to be given to clarify things when only working on one line. I can promise that the equation you presented would cause an AP calc student who hadn't seen it before to at least pause, as they consider what the question is really asking.

 

[BarbaricGoose]

Who are you friends with that you frequently see math problems on Facebook? My advice--get new friends. Yours must be terribly boring.

But serioulsy, I have the bare minimum knowledge I could get away with in college. Literally bare minimum. I'm awful; completely inept. Who cares?

 

[Redingold]

I'm good at maths. I got a gold in the Senior Maths Challenge for last year (the top 40% of entrants get medals, which are handed out in a 3:2:1 ratio of bronze to silver to gold), and went on to take part in the European Kangaroo, where I got a mark of 45. The average mark was 25, for comparison's sake. I got an A* in Maths at A-level, and disappointingly, only an A in Further Maths. For those who've not take those courses, regular Maths deals with things like simple calculus, trigonometry, the binomial expansion and an introduction to vectors, while Further Maths deals in complex numbers, polar co-ordinates, matrices, vectors in three dimensions, differential equations, Taylor series and more complicated calculus.

I'm studying Physics with Theoretical Physics at university, though the actual teaching doesn't start until Monday. Also, Brian Cox is delivering my lectures on Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

 

[thahat]

I'm always confused by the order of operations because I was taught BODMAS first.
Brackets
Powers (forgot what the word was but it's exponents)
Division
Multiplication
Addition
Subtraction

So as you can see Division and Multiplication is switched from PEMDAS, makes it kinda confusing sometimes.
The only use for it in my daily life is Teamfortress 2 Warioware mod

could be, might be because devisions and multiplications GO AT THE SAME TIME so it doesnt really matter in what order you do those

all i know is
( )
^2
/ AND *
+ AND -

never was taught any nice words for em though XD

 

[Nalgas D. Lemur]

In my 3rd year of a mathematics degree with education. There's a lot of fun to be had in math, sadly most people teaching it seem to pass on their hatred of it to their students, which is sad

If you haven't read this [http://www.maa.org/devlin/devlin_03_08.html], I highly recommend it. I saw it years and years ago and have always liked it because it does such a good job of explaining what's wrong with the way math is taught.

Most of the stuff in this thread isn't even math; it's just arithmetic. I never actually finished a degree in anything, but my autobiography could/should probably be titled "I Was a Teenage Mathlete". I've always been good at it, and I've drifted around between different things that tend to involve it in some way or another. And I continue to learn about new things, whether because they're useful or because I find them interesting. Practical things like calculus are great tools and everything, but they're kind of dull compared to all the weird stuff out there. Abstract stuff in general is just so much fun, although I can forgive things for having useful applications if they're related to something else I'm interested in, particularly computer science (which is what I've worked with the most). Something like metalogic does eventually produce some kind of useful results if you get far enough into it, but that's not what's so great about it; it's great in spite of that. Heh.