So you don't need to know maths when you have a calculator? News to me. You still need maths to know what to tell the calculator to do. Let's imagine a situation that could happen to people other than just those who need advanced math in their profession: Someone tells you he'll pay you 15:1 your bet if you throw heads four times in a row. Should you play?MelasZepheos said:
Poll: Lack of basic mathmatical skills
- Thread starter barbzilla
- Start date
Recommended Videos
im gonna honest i am absolutely awful about math, some things i just cant wrap my head around.
like the whole pemdas thing, i did know about the order of operations i just dont get it, why arent you doing them from left to right anyway?
sorry if i sound dumb but i just dont get it.
like the whole pemdas thing, i did know about the order of operations i just dont get it, why arent you doing them from left to right anyway?
sorry if i sound dumb but i just dont get it.
Nitpicking: Ideally and Shouldn't Want does basically say, you can still do what ever you want. I did basically say it's not useful past that point and with the example given.Mortai Gravesend said:
I'm grateful that you wanted to nitpick me.
Perhaps I give too much credit to the intelligence of other people.
My point being that (assuming you know the definition of the + - x / operators) you dont need to know PEMDAS/BODMAS if you use brackets. Which makes it easier for a much larger number of people to know whats going on no matter what their background in mathematics. I didnt learn order of operations - I still havent to this day - and I cant think im the only one who didnt.Mortai Gravesend said:
When reading through a textbook or solving with pen and paper NOBODY (at least not in my textbooks, my coursemates or my proffesors) is going to write an expression in that manner. Thats not an accident. The way the above problems are written is confusing - thats their purpose. Their only place would be to test your knowledge of PEMDAS/BODMAS in an exam for a course you actually learnt it in. After that they become largley irrelevant.
Unless youre trying to put one over someone an equation written in that manner serves precisely no purpose.
Also in doing mathematical solutions to a problem it is very important to know exactly where everything came from. If (as I am atm) youre doing a problem that requires two full sides of A4 to solve having 2x1 instead of 2 helps you track back through the problem easier which is very helpful if you make a mistake.
Even when working through something fairly basic such as 3x3 matrix multiplication its often helpful to write in the 1s and 0s as you can easily track back through the problem and see what you did and where all your numbers came from. Its just good practise tbh.
As a statistician, I'd have to say that the true value of my math skills resides in the 99% confidence interval of (pretty good, fucking amazing).
I have always been taught BEDMAS.barbzilla said:
Brackets
Exponents
Division
Multiplication
Addition
Subtraction
Division and multiplication are reversed but at the same time I have been told that does not matter.
As for my skills in math in general? Abysmal, aside from geometry and percentages (and programing expressions to a lesser extent) which I use frequently I suck hard and hit a brick wall. I was always weak at it.
I'm studying software engineering so it's pretty important to me so that I can create and understand useful algorithms. However I was never taught PEMDAS. I was just told that multiplication and division were done before addition and subtraction, and that anything inside brackets was done before anything outside of brackets.
Which is effectively the same thing but I was never taught a neat little acronym. As for people not being good at maths, it doesn't really bother me. If I'm good and they're not it means theres less competition for me to get a job
Which is effectively the same thing but I was never taught a neat little acronym. As for people not being good at maths, it doesn't really bother me. If I'm good and they're not it means theres less competition for me to get a job
I used to study aerospace engineering and now I'm doing industrial design engineering, so yeah, math is quite important for me. It still surprises me how many people on a university of technology can't understand basic mathematical principles even though they're supposed to evaluate differential equations.
I suppose that might be a good reason. ^^Rabid Toilet said:
I think I should clarify. I don't think the mnemonic is important, nor do I think that is what everyone is taught. I do think everyone was taught some version of the Order of Operations by the time they finished elementary school.
As to the questioning about multiplication and division, as well as addition and subtraction, they are equal in their own sectors and are done from left to right. So in 2x1/9 it would be 2x9 (unless otherwise indicated by a bracket).
Thank you all for your responses. It shows that math is fairly important for most people.
Captcha: easy as cake (I wish everyone thought so captcha).
As to the questioning about multiplication and division, as well as addition and subtraction, they are equal in their own sectors and are done from left to right. So in 2x1/9 it would be 2x9 (unless otherwise indicated by a bracket).
Thank you all for your responses. It shows that math is fairly important for most people.
Captcha: easy as cake (I wish everyone thought so captcha).
I almost went as far as you. I dropped out of calculus 2 halfway through the semester when I realized it was taking up more of my time than all my other classes combined and that none of it was actually going be helpful for me as an IS major.Rednog said:
As far as I can tell math is really only important in areas that require absolute precision. Precision is important when you're say, designing a bridge or airplane wing, which needs to be the perfect shape to function or people will die. But in the other 95% of life's daily activities you can get by without knowing the exact measurements and therefore don't need to worry about it.
Edit: oh and mathematical notation SUCKS. I like doing things on computers but with math equations everything needs to be written by hand. Kinda ironic if you think about it.
Aww the good old Please,Excuse,My,Dear,Aunt,Sally. Sadly It's been years since I've actually had to use anything but basic math. I really need to increase my mathematical knowledge.
So everyone should know it and do it in exact the same way? And this way happens to be better? Despite the fact that its a purely arbitrary descion?Mortai Gravesend said:
Applying rules in mathematics only works if everyone abides to the same rule. Mathematics is the one and only universal language and so saying "This way is the way things will be done now!" only works if everyone else also does it. If not it just creates issues - like this one.
I mean seriously do you know the way they teach mathematics to kids in Uruguay or Iceland or Thailand? Do they teach PEMDAS? Or not? I have no idea - but I know that it isnt universal. Hence this isnt a "ought to know" kind of thing. This is one solution to a problem which is much easier and more universal to solve in the manner I described.
And in any case it still doesnt respond to my original - "nobody writes like this expect for people who want to confuse other people". Because their is no need for it to be written like we all want a cookie if we get it right. Expect for people who want to get a rise out of other people and laugh at their "stupidity".
If people get that problem wrong its not their fault for not knowing your arbitrary rule that you happen to abide by. Its your fault for not writing it clearly.
I was never taught any of those acronyms but the order of operations, multiplication tables and all that stuff was drilled into me in primary school.
I did 2 unit mathematics in high school (above standard) (We had [in increasing order] standard maths, 2 unit, 3 unit and 4 unit maths at our school. Most people only do standard maths or no maths at all, there was only 17 in my 2 unit class and there was only 3 people in 3 unit after I dropped it (the teacher gave me the serious creeps))
I deliver pizzas for a living, so i need to be able to do basic maths on the fly
I did 2 unit mathematics in high school (above standard) (We had [in increasing order] standard maths, 2 unit, 3 unit and 4 unit maths at our school. Most people only do standard maths or no maths at all, there was only 17 in my 2 unit class and there was only 3 people in 3 unit after I dropped it (the teacher gave me the serious creeps))
I deliver pizzas for a living, so i need to be able to do basic maths on the fly
Well, I'm a student of maths and computer science, so maths is pretty important to me, but what irritates me is the popular opinion that evaluating messes like 1+5*5-7/1*9 constitutes maths, when it really doesn't. True, we have this BIDMAS convention (Brackets, indices, division, etc, yet another version of PEMDAS), but if I were to write something like 1+5*5-7/1*9 in one of my projects, they'd throw it out immediately because writing things like that just makes the reader's life difficult. I could, if I wanted, write this entire post without commas or full stops, and it would still be just about possible understand it and read it, but I can't then say, "Well if you can't understand this, you're clearly terrible at reading". It's entirely my fault that you can't understand it, because I wrote it badly.
Similarly, the fact that different people will arrive at different answers to 1+5*5-7/1*9 does not highlight how stupid maths is or how stupid the reader is for not agreeing with what other people say, it highlights how stupid the person writing it is for not writing it, say, like this:
Or like this:
And now, just to hammer home my point, this entire post again but with all the commas and full stops removed. Even with all the capital letters left in, it's still not readable:
Similarly, the fact that different people will arrive at different answers to 1+5*5-7/1*9 does not highlight how stupid maths is or how stupid the reader is for not agreeing with what other people say, it highlights how stupid the person writing it is for not writing it, say, like this:
Or like this:
And now, just to hammer home my point, this entire post again but with all the commas and full stops removed. Even with all the capital letters left in, it's still not readable:
Well I'm a student of maths and computer science so maths is pretty important to me but what irritates me is the popular opinion that evaluating messes like 1+5*5-7/1*9 constitutes maths when it really doesn't True we have this BIDMAS convention (Brackets indices division etc yet another version of PEMDAS) but if I were to write something like 1+5*5-7/1*9 in one of my projects they'd throw it out immediately because writing things like that just makes the reader's life difficult I could if I wanted write this entire post without commas or full stops and it would still be just about possible understand it and read it but I can't then say "Well if you can't understand this you're clearly terrible at reading" It's entirely my fault that you can't understand it because I wrote it badly
Similarly the fact that different people will arrive at different answers to 1+5*5-7/1*9 does not highlight how stupid maths is or how stupid the reader is for not agreeing with what other people say it highlights how stupid the person writing it is for not writing it say like this:
Or like this:
And now just to hammer home my point this entire post again but with all the commas and full stops removed:
Similarly the fact that different people will arrive at different answers to 1+5*5-7/1*9 does not highlight how stupid maths is or how stupid the reader is for not agreeing with what other people say it highlights how stupid the person writing it is for not writing it say like this:
Or like this:
And now just to hammer home my point this entire post again but with all the commas and full stops removed:
Sorry, I'm not doing infinite recursion today.
I've always been aspergers-good at math and has given me a false-positive genius-level result in an IQ test which people have thrown in my face as a means to demean my lack of personal goals or accomplishments.
I find it kind of funny when people give me a "Wow, how'd you do that?" by having close approximation estimates or spot-on basic-math sums calculated instantaneous which is no more impressive to me in real life situations than it would be for an internet forum lurker.
Math is important if you deal with money. Other than that, we've all got our cell-phone/calculators with us at all times. Most people don't actually NEED math as much as they need to be able to count to 10.
Though people who don't know how to do basic math are also more likely to not be able to understand or retain basic commands or functions effectively.
I think spelling is pretty important. Grammar is good. People who have neither of these skills or even attempt them are likely text-message abusing and find it quite perfectly acceptable to never succeed a greater vernacular than "lol" or "wut u want".
I find it kind of funny when people give me a "Wow, how'd you do that?" by having close approximation estimates or spot-on basic-math sums calculated instantaneous which is no more impressive to me in real life situations than it would be for an internet forum lurker.
Math is important if you deal with money. Other than that, we've all got our cell-phone/calculators with us at all times. Most people don't actually NEED math as much as they need to be able to count to 10.
Though people who don't know how to do basic math are also more likely to not be able to understand or retain basic commands or functions effectively.
I think spelling is pretty important. Grammar is good. People who have neither of these skills or even attempt them are likely text-message abusing and find it quite perfectly acceptable to never succeed a greater vernacular than "lol" or "wut u want".
I, C F, do hereby take the field of Mathematics to be my satirically wedded wife.
I'm pretty good at casually handling math without having to study or drill in the concepts. So long as I have someone (i.e. a professor) who's willing to go over the principles as they come, I can get it down with a simple test of concept or two, never do the homework (because screw buying a textbook), file it away, and not have to worry when it comes to testing. I breezed through Pre-calculus algebra with an A without ever studying or practicing, and so far it's looking like Business (or Applied as it may be known) Calculus I is following suit.
Everything makes sense to me.
Today is a good day.
I'm pretty good at casually handling math without having to study or drill in the concepts. So long as I have someone (i.e. a professor) who's willing to go over the principles as they come, I can get it down with a simple test of concept or two, never do the homework (because screw buying a textbook), file it away, and not have to worry when it comes to testing. I breezed through Pre-calculus algebra with an A without ever studying or practicing, and so far it's looking like Business (or Applied as it may be known) Calculus I is following suit.
Everything makes sense to me.
Today is a good day.