Poll: Lack of basic mathmatical skills

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The Ubermensch

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Mar 6, 2012
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Mortai Gravesend said:
I'm sorry, but since when was the concept of left-associativity something just for 6 year olds? Hint: It isn't. There's a reason to get consistent results.
You get consistent results by using Parentheses

It doesn't need to be the same. The notation itself isn't a universal law and that isn't a problem. It isn't expected to be as I pointed out.
When you practice maths, even those of us who practice it and consider it to be a human construct will practice it under the assumption that it is law. This requires that you use correct setting out.

Also, I didn't come here to troll, but your ignorance/arrogance is simply so brilliant; and I'm on a mission to fix the internet. Let me put it this way, if you were to say "I don't need to use parentheses because I have SWAG" I wouldn't bat an eye lid. This sorta shit needs to stop and unfortunately for you, you pinged on my radar today.
 

game-lover

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Dec 1, 2010
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I'm in the 3rd and 5th response camp.

Because I haven't used much math lately. And I really hate it. Like REALLY hate it. And I'm not that good at it.

The facebook problems you talk about I don't know the answers to. What I thought were the answers were wrong so now I'm just confused.
 

Trippy Turtle

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May 10, 2010
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An accurate question would have brackets and things though wouldn't it? I was taught BODMAS (Brackets Of Division Multiplication Addition Subtraction)and I have never come across a question like that without brackets and things.
 

The Ubermensch

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Mortai Gravesend said:
Sargent Hoofbeat said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
Sargent Hoofbeat said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
I'm sorry, but since when was the concept of left-associativity something just for 6 year olds? Hint: It isn't. There's a reason to get consistent results.
You get consistent results by using Parentheses
Yes, and if someone doesn't put them it makes sense to define what is meant. Just because you apparently cannot comprehend that there are reasons to define it doesn't mean they don't exist. Rail against the idea of associativity all you like, it's there regardless of whether you want it to be or not.

It doesn't need to be the same. The notation itself isn't a universal law and that isn't a problem. It isn't expected to be as I pointed out.
When you practice maths, even thoughs of us who practice it and consider it to be a human construct will practice it under the assumption that it is law. This requires that you use correct setting out.
And what you fail to understand is that it isn't incorrect, there's a defined way to do it. Your whining that an alien that reads right to left might have a different rule is bullshit because that sort of argument applies to all our notations. Explain to the alien the concept of left-associative operators and what happens if they're the same priority and it can read it.

Also, I didn't come here to troll, but your ignorance/arrogance is simply so brilliant; and I'm on a mission to fix the internet. Let me put it this way then, if you were to say "I don't need to use parentheses because I have SWAG" I wouldn't bat an eye lid.
Ignorance? You're the one who is seemingly proud of not knowing something basic like the order of operations.

But hey, what you admitted won't vanish and will still be there for the mods to see.
And you'll still be butthurt ;)
You're just giving me more and more posts to report.

And still failing to answer why you don't get that multiplication and division are the same priority and left-associative meaning that you do them left to right at the same time.
... wait, I said that multiplication and division are the same priority, I even explained that the reason for this is that division is the inverse function of multipication (vice versa). I also explained that if you use parentheses correctly then the "Left to right" rule becomes redundant and even counter intuitive. That's your why; If an equation is written out correctly, no matter the way you were educated you will get the same answer as someone who was educated differently

At the end of the day I'm trying to explain my personal reasoning behind this, and that is that math should be treated like an (Higher-order*) instinctive universal language.

*An Epoch of intelligence (take that as a dig if you want)

As I said, you butthurt levels, even though I'm not trolling you... well I am enjoying the reaction so maybe I am, anyway... may be interfering with your ability to reason, I have determined you to be a lost cause for this evening and have decided to retire from this discourse. Good day to you sir; I hope that one day in the future you can accept that not everything that you are taught is the truth.

Edit: no wait! I have one more idea! Ok, so your aware that we exist in four different dimension's right? 3 spatial and one temporal. Ok, so how would an entity that exist purely in a spatial realm (IE the don't experience time), how would they be able to do a function first? because that's what maths is, its a concept that doesn't experience out of time.

When we apply that "left to right" bs to things like quantum entanglement it becomes counter intuitive.... there, I'm done with you now.
 

WoW Killer

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Mar 3, 2012
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It really is just a convention, and there's no need for arguments. Another example: the word 'or' is by convention inclusive (Latin vel) unless otherwise stated. There's no intrinsic reason why this is so; you can construct an exclusive 'or' from an inclusive one ((AvB)n~(AnB)), and you can construct an inclusive 'or' from an exclusive one (AvBv(AnB)). It's just convention.

Mathematics is about demonstrating results. It's a mathematician's job to describe a statement unambiguously to the reader. If a statement is ambiguous then it is not mathematically rigorous.
 

Artemis923

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Dec 25, 2008
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I'm working on a game programming degree, and was a Nuke ET in the Navy...so even though I don't LIKE math, I know how to do it.

I DnD with some people who can't add their attack bonus to a D20 roll... I just roll my eyes and let it go.
 

Pandaman1911

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Jan 3, 2011
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I've got to be honest, I enjoy a good bit of the maths. It's comforting knowing that absolutely everything in the universe can be spread out and boiled down to pure numbers. Makes me feel like there's some absolutes.

Unfortunately, I work at Walmart, which means I pretty much don't ever get to do anything more in-depth than multiplication. Which is a shame, because at one point, I had a pretty damn good grasp of trig, and found it rather engaging. Don't ask me to do anything now, though. Years of neglect has let it go stale.
 

Megacherv

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Sep 24, 2008
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We always used BODMAS at high school:

Brackets
Order (Sometimes it would be BIDMAS and have indices instead)
Division
etc.

Although division and multiplication can be interchanged.

My highest mathematical qualification is an A-level in Maths (passed with a B), but I'm currently studying Computer Science w/ Games Development at uni, so I need Maths a lot
 

barbzilla

He who speaks words from mouth!
Dec 6, 2010
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Wolverine18 said:
Well your poll options are pretty stupid because of the silly job examples you tried to attach to them. You think engineers are the only ones that need math? Or that all engineers require them for their jobs? Wrong on both counts.

What does "highest mathmatical level of knowlege" mean to you? It's an odd question to ask.

barbzilla said:
An easy way to remember the order is with the phrase Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally (I thought everyone was taught this in elementary school).
No one taught us that silly little phrase, and why would they? It's not a difficult thing to remember and remembering a phrase to remember something else doesn't necessarily make anything easier.
Well I am going to assume that you seeming rather hostile is just a coincidence and leave it there. I posted jobs with the description so that people had a reference level, it has nothing to do with me thinking those are the only jobs that require math. As a matter of fact I found it rather hard to think of jobs that didn't require math.

Highest mathematical level of knowledge would refer to your highest level of math that you know. For example Differential equations, calculus, or algebra. I figured this was pretty self explanatory so I didn't feel it was necessary to elaborate further.

As for the mnemonic I have already stated that this wasn't about the mnemonic. I can only assume you didn't read the rest of the thread, so I will reiterate. In the OP I am referring more towards everyone being taught some form of the order of operations in elementary school.

Hope this clears things up for you.
 

Zakarath

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Mar 23, 2009
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+1 to those people saying that right-to-left order is irrelevant/not a method of mathematics. Any properly written equation should have one result as long as order of operations is followed.
And for the love of god, if you're writing problems with division on one line, do it like this:
(9^2+3*2)/(3*4)
When in doubt, apply parenthesis.
 

Moderated

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May 12, 2012
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I'm not on facebook, but I do see people on the internet all the time that don't know the greater than sign from the lesser than sign.
 

Ashadowpie

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Feb 3, 2012
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math is the most important skill in the modern day society and workplace.

* sniff * i have a mathematical learning disability

Dyscalculia ..look it up. School pushed me every grade of elementary and High school. i graduated while failing that makes no freakin sense.. i did a real IQ test from my doctor and my math skill level is grade 3.

* sigh *
 

CrazyDave DC

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Apr 14, 2010
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I'm a third year Politics/History Major, so what is math? Definitely in the "know it, don't need it" category right now.
 

KingofallCosmos

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Nov 15, 2010
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May I include the option: yes, it's all around me. I just like it?

or: Math is poetry?

or: I've been out of a job for a while, but I still count the prices of my groceries out of my head?
 

Kindastrange

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Dec 29, 2010
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I find it hard to say if i'm good at math. I'm studying to get my bachelor in nursing and amongst my peers (read; other students) i'm really good at it. I think my knowledge of math is "close enough", i know the basics and i can manage harer stuff though i prefer a calculator to be sure.

As for how imporatant math is in my daily life: REALLY IMPORTANT (though i voted somewhat important, due to the fact that most math problems i come across are fairly basic)! If i screw up the math behind the medicine mixture in someone's iv (or more common mistake is getting the drip speed wrong) or something else, someone could potenially die (sounds really dramatic, but my father who is a doctor lost a patient because someone at the pharmacy got one decimal wrong). That's why everything is double/triple checked when dealing with meds.



P.S. Sorry if i'm butchering the English language again :p I'm a dyslectic and English is not my primary language.
 

Muspelheim

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Apr 7, 2011
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I barely use any maths at all in my life, and I've pretty much forgotten most of what was thrown at me back in school that I don't use.

I'm glad there's people who enjoy maths, people who are good at it. Mathematics are very, very useful and important. But I really don't want to, myself. And believe it or not, I'm not a second-rate citizen who can't tie his own shoes. :p

Again; maths are fantastic. I just don't like doing them, unless it's applied in a way that matters. I'll gladly leave that to people who actually enjoy it. Rock on!
 

ManimalR

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Jan 3, 2011
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I okay at maths, mostly I'm just out of practice, however ive always had a massive problem with division (beyond basic division like 120 / 12), ive had it explained to me a million times and its just never clicked. TBH I mainly just use a calculator, that is what they were made for. I mainly just use maths for scientific illustrations for my Palaeontology course
 

pppppppppppppppppp

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Jun 23, 2011
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Taking Calculus in High School at the moment, and honestly, those things are a stupid way of indicating if someone understand math or not. At no point in an engineer's career will he be asked to solve "3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3x0 = ?"

I do agree though that there's a serious shortage of people who are good at and interested in math, especially here in America.
 

bl4ckh4wk64

Walking Mass Effect Codex
Jun 11, 2010
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Kind of limited the poll there, didn't you? I'm not an engineer but I find math extremely important to know. I don't use it everyday, but I pride myself on at least being able to solve basic Calculus.
 

Connor Lonske

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Sep 30, 2008
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i like math. it likes me. i don't need it, but i feel it needs me, as most people where i live don't understand it in the slightest and despite my learning disabilities i'm better than almost all my peers.

i can't even memorize the time tables due to my low attention span for such things and i do better than them. (basically i just do the math in my head every time using self made methods, while the people who know the times tables can't even do a basic formula or equation for the life of them.)

maybe i have an aptitude for logical thinking or something. ether way everyone tells me i'm smart just because of my math skills (which is funny because my technical writing skills are a lot more shit than almost everyone i know).

also who here solved einstein's "riddle" [http://www.manbottle.com/trivia/einstein_s_riddle] on their first try? i can't be the only one.