Poll: Let's settle something right now, can you defend yourself with a gun?

[SinisterGehe]

Of course you can defend yourself with a gun. But it comes down to, should you and could you.
If I am being mugged on alley by a thug with a knife, me pulling a gun on him is going to get more trouble to me.

Here where I live, the fact I would use a gun to defend me would land me in to jail for around 10 years - for gun crime . (Because here we are not allowed to carry weapons on public, at all. No questions, no but... And guns that are being transferred need to have a lock on the trigger that can only be opened with a single key or kept in a case that is locked.)

So here you couldn't...
And personally, I wouldn't or couldn't. Being pacifist and all...

 

[Skoosh]

Yes and no. Sure, you could hypothetically shoot someone before they do any harm, thus defending yourself. However, odds are very slim of that happening, even with training. Cases of would-be burglary thwarted by shooting are the rare exception, not the rule. Besides that, most studies though that criminals are much more afraid of a dog than a gun when breaking in (I'm too lazy to find the link, but if you're really that doubtful, research yourself).

I think part of the problem is too many people assume it will go down like they are cowboys or something. They'll just do a quickdraw and shoot him first! In the street though they will likely get the jump on you or outnumber you, and in your home they are likely to break in while you're out. Guns don't stop bullets, they just throw more out there. But yeah, it can be used for self-defense, I just wouldn't bet on it.

Oh, and those saying "shoot him in the leg" I doubt have ever used a gun before, or at least not properly. Leg shot doesn't mean non-lethal necessarily, femoral artery and all. Also, all shots should be considered killing shots with the intent to kill, that's what a gun is FOR. And most importantly, you will in all likelihood miss, or not even slow the attacker down. Pelvis will ground someone if it's a large enough round, leg or foot though, could easily keep coming. It's relatively small target moving fast, leg shot is dumb. Shots should be in the torso or, if there's cover/armor/numerous other things, the head.

...Or are we talking legally? Because that depends on where you're at...

 

[BishopofAges]

I have shot a rifle before, I have used a faithful bb gun replica of a handgun, and I can say for a damned fact that NO I cannot successfully use a gun for self-defense. In my house there is always some manner of whupping stick within arms reach, but hidden from sight (and children) so I think it would be much more productive to beat the tar out of intruders, yes. They have knives? guns? artillery shells? body armor? I don't care, even without the element of surprise, its damned easy to find someone in the dark with a stick.

I said the artillery shell/body armor bit because that's the only logical reason to have armor piercing bullets and assault rifles. To be honest, most armor doesn't cover the head or genitals so I find it more financially frugal to use a stick, sword, bat, dagger, bit o wood, bit o steel, or monkey king pole to make my point, because frantically hitting someone is more intimidating than 'drop it now!' because you're already in the process of delivering a well-deserved ass-kicking.

 

[Sincendiary]

Yes, I am capable of defending myself with firearms. I've used them in a military sense and from the fact that I am typing this it has appeared to work to certain degree.

I never have had to fire as a civilian but I've drawn and the problem ran away. I didn't report that incident. The person who entered my domicile may have entered it completely accidentally (they appeared intoxicated and may have simply gotten the wrong place) but they also may have been there to steal my stuff or murder my family while they slept. Pistol drawn, problem gone.

It isn't as easy as point and shoot as many people seem to think. However, even an empty firearm is more likely to scare off your attacker than your black belt skills and I certainly don't want to risk that you might get lucky even if I think you have absolutely no idea how to use the firearm in your hands.

After reading many of these posts I began to wonder if I'm a monster. I see absolutely no problem pulling the trigger on someone who refuses to flee when faced with lethal force in my home. I also see no problem pulling the trigger on someone threatening lethal force upon others outside of my property. I think that shooting to wound is some kind of crazy naive Hollywood shit. If it deserves to get shot, it deserves to die. If you're pulling the trigger you're accepting that. If you're planning to shoot to wound, you are not ready to use your firearm for self defense. Go buy a taser.

I will warn, I will use extremely bright light to mitigate my attackers ability to wage an offense against me, however if you do not take heed of that warning and immediately retreat I really don't see any reason why you deserve to live any longer. I will have an emotional reaction. I probably won't feel great about what I had to do. However, I'll have the rest of my life to get over it and my family will be there to help me deal with it.

I understand that this is a lot of responsibility and many people don't want it. However, I don't understand why you wouldn't want others to be able to assume that responsibility for themselves.

I'm from one of those crazy wild west states in America though and I've been brainwashed by our military industrial complex.

 

[Pat8u]

Technically no as you can't Hide behind a gun or use it as a shield.
but you can use it to scare people away as long as you don't shoot him/her.

 

[AlexanderPeregrine]

This really should have been put somewhere near the start of the thread, but here's a video where police officers discuss the "stop the bad guy" situation and simulate it for a couple people of varying non-professional skill levels:

 

[Burst6]

I have shot a rifle before, I have used a faithful bb gun replica of a handgun, and I can say for a damned fact that NO I cannot successfully use a gun for self-defense. In my house there is always some manner of whupping stick within arms reach, but hidden from sight (and children) so I think it would be much more productive to beat the tar out of intruders, yes. They have knives? guns? artillery shells? body armor? I don't care, even without the element of surprise, its damned easy to find someone in the dark with a stick.

I said the artillery shell/body armor bit because that's the only logical reason to have armor piercing bullets and assault rifles. To be honest, most armor doesn't cover the head or genitals so I find it more financially frugal to use a stick, sword, bat, dagger, bit o wood, bit o steel, or monkey king pole to make my point, because frantically hitting someone is more intimidating than 'drop it now!' because you're already in the process of delivering a well-deserved ass-kicking.

I guess that could work. If you're big enough to be a good threat with a melee weapon, and if there's only one intruder, and if you don't have floors that make no noise when you walk, and if your intruder is so bad at what he's doing that he just freezes up when he sees someone charging at him with a baseball bat.

Otherwise you're probably going to get shot if they have a gun, or their friend is going to pick up something blunt and hit you on the back of your head, or the guy is actually much better at fighting than you and will kick your ass. If they have a knife, even if you do beat them you'll probably have a few knife wounds on you. If they have a gun, unless you knock it out of their hands at the start, you're going to get shot. All if takes for them to take you out is to sort of point in your general direction and unload as many shots as possible. There was a news story of some guy in australia who was attacked out of nowhere by some muggers on the escapist a while ago. They hit him over the head with a bat i think, but he could still pull out his gun and kill them.

Don't underestimate how strong 'drop it now!' is. You can defend yourself against a wooden stick. You can't defend yourself against a gun. Even if they're right next to you and the gun is within arms reach, unless you have extensive training you're not going to disarm them without getting shot. If you get shot with a gun you're pretty much down. Maybe dead. All it takes is a movement of a finger.

This really should have been put somewhere near the start of the thread, but here's a video where police officers discuss the "stop the bad guy" situation and simulate it for a couple people of varying non-professional skill levels:

That video seems so off. First of all they were all wearing heavy gloves. Why? That isn't exactly a common thing people do and it makes quickly pulling out a gun harder. Second, the gunman already knew exactly what was happening and the student was in the same seat each time. Third, the video itself says gun owners should have required training which i don't disagree with. In fact, i think gun ownership should be restricted to needing licenses, delay periods, and training. The title of the video on youtube and the description is blatantly and obviously biased.

 

[Sincendiary]

This really should have been put somewhere near the start of the thread, but here's a video where police officers discuss the "stop the bad guy" situation and simulate it for a couple people of varying non-professional skill levels:

I think the problem with the situation there is the expectation of the test subjects in that video that you're going to be a super hero and not that you're going to mitigate the damage that the mass shooter is causing. There's certainly some unrealistic expectations among many people who would use their firearm for self defense.

It's not magic, if you're ambushed by someone even if you are the super regenerating health nerves of steel video game character born with perfect sight picture and trigger squeeze no matter how stressed you are, you are probably screwed. Even if they're far less trained/skilled/equipped than you are.

However, smart criminals go for soft targets. Even deranged mass murderers tend to take the path of least resistance and go for the soft target.

 

[Joccaren]

Depends what you're asking.

I personally have no idea how to use a gun, and couldn't defend myself with one, as is normal.

Can you use a gun purely for defence? You could block with it, or shoot bullets out of the air or something with it, otherwise you are attacking the other person. Even in self defence, it is an attack.
Is it right to use it as a weapon of attack in self defence? It depends on the circumstances.

 

[Starik20X6]

Not really. It's not defence per se, it's more countering the threat/committing of violence with the threat/committing of more violence. A shield is for defence. A bulletproof vest is for defence. A gun is for attacking.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

There's been this discussion in the Religion and Politics section of the forum and it concerns this. Can you use a gun to defend yourself? At least one person claimed it's a myth and that it never happens.
My take on it? Yeah you can, to take it a bit further you can also defend your home with one. The person I argued with said it never ever happens, he also said that if someone breaks into your home that you can't shoot them. Where I live if someone breaks into your house that is your castle and they just breached the walls so you can defend your property.

... huh?

If you asking "if someone breaks into my home with a weapon, am I allowed to shoot them?" then the answer, if you live in the USA, is "yes".

Is it possible that the person you were talking with was from outside the USA? They might have different laws elsewhere regarding that.

On the other hand, there is the philosophical issue. Can you defend yourself with a gun? No - you can only shoot someone else. Guns can't block other guns - a gun can't be used to defend against an attack. A sword can parry blows from another sword. It can be used defensively.

What a gun CAN do is shoot first, killing (or at least hurting) the assailant before that assailant hurts you. Alternatively, it can be used to frighten off an assailant. Guns are scary.

But again, that's a philosophical point - when people say "defend a house" they mean by shooting the intruder, which as noted is exactly what they can be used to do (assuming the laws in your area allow such a thing).

As to whether or not guns are effective at home defense... I'm not touching that with an three meter pole.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

You can in a few very unlikely scenarios, most of those scenarios where shooting someone would be overkill and should get you arrested.
The only time a gun would be useful is if someone is trying to kill you and is bad enough at it to give you time to shoot them. If you are getting mugged and shoot someone, you deserve jail time. Whats more important? Your wallet or someones life?

Do criminals come up and truthfully announce their intentions to you? How are you supposed to tell the difference between a mugging and a rape until the time when drawing a gun is possible has passed? Maybe people should just not rob other people if they don't want to get shot...

You can in a few very unlikely scenarios, most of those scenarios where shooting someone would be overkill and should get you arrested.
The only time a gun would be useful is if someone is trying to kill you and is bad enough at it to give you time to shoot them. If you are getting mugged and shoot someone, you deserve jail time. Whats more important? Your wallet or someones life?

Honestly? If someone is going to threaten my life over my wallet, I am more than willing to threaten their life over the transgression, then end their life if they decide to press the issue.

The one time I have had to draw my gun, drawing it was enough to discourage further discourse along that particular path.

If they are armed then it changes things a little, but lets not get into the stupidity of allowing everyone a gun. I was thinking along the lines of the offender being unarmed because anywhere with proper laws that is all that normally happens.

 

[Flames66]

I have never touched a gun. I would like to at some point go to a Rifle range and shoot up dem target and pigeons.

I would like to think I could if I had to. I have used BB guns and and quite good with a bow.

 

[gufftroad]

In the USA yes you can legally defend yourself with a firearm. I keep several loaded guns in various places (spent the last three years in a neighborhood infested with tweakers). I have had to draw them twice, once when a guy tried to come through my window and once when a a small group of people busted down the back door to my garage, without firing a shot.

unfortunately in states like CA without a castle doctrine or stand your ground law its better to shoot to kill because:
1 warning shots are illegal and are considered reckless endangerment and unlawful discharge and will land you in jail
2 people can sue you for damages and dead men cant sue

People can blather on about how people don't need guns, but I can attest to the need. I have used them in self defense. Untill you are in a situation were you truly need to defend yourself, who are you to tell me i cant. Try waking up in the middle of the night to your bedroom window busting in and tell me you don't want a gun.

 

[BishopofAges]

I guess that could work. If you're big enough to be a good threat with a melee weapon, and if there's only one intruder, and if you don't have floors that make no noise when you walk, and if your intruder is so bad at what he's doing that he just freezes up when he sees someone charging at him with a baseball bat.

Otherwise you're probably going to get shot if they have a gun, or their friend is going to pick up something blunt and hit you on the back of your head, or the guy is actually much better at fighting than you and will kick your ass. If they have a knife, even if you do beat them you'll probably have a few knife wounds on you. If they have a gun, unless you knock it out of their hands at the start, you're going to get shot. All if takes for them to take you out is to sort of point in your general direction and unload as many shots as possible. There was a news story of some guy in australia who was attacked out of nowhere by some muggers on the escapist a while ago. They hit him over the head with a bat i think, but he could still pull out his gun and kill them.

Don't underestimate how strong 'drop it now!' is. You can defend yourself against a wooden stick. You can't defend yourself against a gun. Even if they're right next to you and the gun is within arms reach, unless you have extensive training you're not going to disarm them without getting shot. If you get shot with a gun you're pretty much down. Maybe dead. All it takes is a movement of a finger.

I find your overabundant use of the word 'if' disturbing, I counted 11 uses, though one was an accident because you meant 'it'.

Your 'if' scenarios can be turned around in my favor too, you know. If I catch him/them off guard, they are usually beaten pretty good. If they are a terrible shot they are boned, the old axiom "Melee weapons don't run out of bullets". If they use knives, I have weapons to keep them at arms length, which still fit for fighting in even the smallest suburban home (sounds like Billy Mays when I say that) If they are intimidated by my size or alarming voice, they would usually flee. According to some studies done on home invasions thwarted by police or inhabitants, Burglars/home invaders are usually cowards (come at night, scared off by the home having a dog, an alarm company sticker, etc.)

Second, friend, the thread title was "can YOU defend yourself with a gun?" I answered honestly, and even more honestly I have to ask. If I took your post to heart, do you really think I would walk into a shop and take gun-self-defense-type classes with the reason being "A guy on the net swayed my belief with his wonderful 'if' statements"? Seriously, I am not trying to sound like a world-class-ass (though it is hard to convey a light-hearted comedic manner through text), but working through peoples replies and showing them 'the benefits of defense with guns' isn't really at topic here, its more about if we as a people can be honest with ourselves and say 'hey that robber dropped his gun, can I use it effectively to stop him from doing anything', I said no.

 

[jackinmydaniels]

Well, yes I suppose. If we're avoiding the politics behind it, I've shot plenty of guns in my time and I think, if it came down to it, I'd most certainly use one to hurt the bad guy before he could hurt me.

 

[StormShaun]

Well it depends really.

I do know how to use a...

A something Magnum.
A something Semi Auto pistol.

And the Australian ...

Spoiler

I forgot what it was called.... ARG!

The point is that yes I can defend myself with a gun, I wouldn't try to hit them in a critical location (If I'm that good)...

but we all have to remember...
captcha: "Safety first"

EDIT: Although it would be hard to fire... I mean I have never shot anyone before. :/

 

[Burst6]

I find your overabundant use of the word 'if' disturbing, I counted 11 uses, though one was an accident because you meant 'it'.

Your 'if' scenarios can be turned around in my favor too, you know. If I catch him/them off guard, they are usually beaten pretty good. If they are a terrible shot they are boned, the old axiom "Melee weapons don't run out of bullets". If they use knives, I have weapons to keep them at arms length, which still fit for fighting in even the smallest suburban home (sounds like Billy Mays when I say that) If they are intimidated by my size or alarming voice, they would usually flee. According to some studies done on home invasions thwarted by police or inhabitants, Burglars/home invaders are usually cowards (come at night, scared off by the home having a dog, an alarm company sticker, etc.)

Second, friend, the thread title was "can YOU defend yourself with a gun?" I answered honestly, and even more honestly I have to ask. If I took your post to heart, do you really think I would walk into a shop and take gun-self-defense-type classes with the reason being "A guy on the net swayed my belief with his wonderful 'if' statements"? Seriously, I am not trying to sound like a world-class-ass (though it is hard to convey a light-hearted comedic manner through text), but working through peoples replies and showing them 'the benefits of defense with guns' isn't really at topic here, its more about if we as a people can be honest with ourselves and say 'hey that robber dropped his gun, can I use it effectively to stop him from doing anything', I said no.

I wasn't talking about how good you think you are at defending yourself with a gun, i was replying about how you seem to underestimate how strong a gun can be in these situations and overestimate the effectiveness of clubs. Both of them may be equally effective against one idiot robbing your house, but if you stumble across two mentally unstable thugs looking at you a bat isn't going to protect you.

Also a robber may be a terrible shot, but they can get lucky. If they do get lucky, you're going to the hospital or worse. It's the same with knives. You may try to keep them at arms length as best as you can but fights get confused and frenzied. You may try to keep them a good length away but when you're both in an adrenaline feuled blur that knife may do damage to you. Yeah they may not get lucky and you may beat them into submission without getting a scratch, but it's a sizable risk. One that i personally wouldn't want to take.

EDIT: As you may have noticed, the new word of the day is "may". Hypotheticals, eh?

 

[StormShaun]

Snip

Ah, thank you good sir. I easily forget that rifle's name since I lasted fired it in 2010.
Also I did forgot to point out that guy did have a customized non-standard rifle.

All the less I did get to know the Steyr very well during 2010...
but shooting someone with THAT... well I just hope I wouldn't have to shoot a human with it.
Mutants may count.

Edit: Sorry I crapped up on the quote. :/

 

[AVATAR_RAGE]

Well guns are illegal in my country so can't legally use them anyway and well I just wouldn't. I have taken some basic self defense classes so I can defend myself and am currently looking for a different class to take, I am thinking Krav Maga.


Guns kill and injure, it is their only purpose. Just bleh.