Poll: Leveled Enemies and Oblivion
- Thread starter NezumiiroKitsune
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Well as much as I like fighting nothing but rats, imps and wolves I prefer the much higher leveled enemies. The point is the same with most games, the farther you get in the game the harder the game gets. However I do agree with some of you in that places that were too high leveled for n00b toons made the game a mystery and gave you an incentive to level up
The idea with leveled enemies is understandable, as their loot got better and more valuable, so that you could eventually buy the better houses and stuff. I like Oblivion, even if the sudden jump that all thieves wear Daedric armour is a little bit of a oddity.
I hated the leveling system in Oblivion. I got most of my major skills to level 100 (including block and agility) and the guards were kicking the crap out of me even though they couldn't when I was weaker.
Also the main quests were horrible to complete once you get to around 40 because of them being too overpowered.
Also the main quests were horrible to complete once you get to around 40 because of them being too overpowered.
It depends on the game, in The Last Remant, the NPCs leveled and that took all of the fun out of the game because I could not get passed a certain point. In games like Oblivion and Fallout, it doesn't matter because you can get all of the achievements on easy mode.
It would have dismantled Bethesda's main selling point of an open ended world. If certain regions were "locked" due to difficulty, it would've become a much more linear experience. Certain things just have to be compromised as opposed to trying to become a jack of all trades but a master of none.insectoid said:
if I spend time leveling my character to its limit then I should be able to defeat every single NPC, in an instant. Make that an Amendment, or something
I don't mean that area's are "locked". Just that they have tougher monsters in them (with better loot). You could still go there, you would just have to be really careful about not attracting a monsters' attention, or run damn fast. It could just be that the further you go off the path/deeper into forest, the harder the monsters are.NXMT said:
I hated it. I still hate it. I will hate it forever. It forced me to put the game on it's easiest difficulty just to get any fun from it. The enemies were just to powerful on super hard mode. I mean seriously, how can a standard hunger survive a spell that does
drain health 100 for 2 sec
fire damage 100 for 2 sec
frost damage 100 for 2 sec
shock damage 100 for 2 sec
weakness to all forms of magic at 100%
Thats like 3 million damage! How the hell can anything survive that. I tried it with the mod that removes the enemy leveling system and it died, quickly. The game was great fun on the unborn baby difficulty though.
drain health 100 for 2 sec
fire damage 100 for 2 sec
frost damage 100 for 2 sec
shock damage 100 for 2 sec
weakness to all forms of magic at 100%
Thats like 3 million damage! How the hell can anything survive that. I tried it with the mod that removes the enemy leveling system and it died, quickly. The game was great fun on the unborn baby difficulty though.
Or you can try to challenge yourself and try to get through them in various ways...NXMT said:
Encountering the same difficulty everywhere you go is just... weird.
I can remember ruin-diving in Morrowind and actually having to THINK about how I made my way around, instead of just clearing it out because I was able to (from being the same level as EVERYTHING ELSE). Facing enemies of higher levels increases tension and therefore increases immersion. If you can kill anything at any level, where's the planning? Where's the thinking? Where's the immersion?
Where's the FUN??
The problem seems to very depending on spec. I mean I wanted to be a destruction magician and leveling enemies made me never feel like I was getting any better. If a spell is one shotting then that is only because it costed my entire mana bar to cast so the only sign of actually improvement came in the form of conjuring where skeletal champion rapes all forms of face. Then on the other hand as soon as you give a warrior a two handed hammer they kill anything and everything no problem.
I don't like the way Oblivion does leveling. Not one bit. In an RPG I want there to be places where if I go there at level 1... I will get trashed. But if I come back 10 levels later with a bit of kit to hand, I'll be able to do well.
Having it oblivion's way just makes the sense of progession I love in RPGs melt away. It removes all incentives to level up at all. Oblivion's later campaign sections are actually considerably easier if you just do not sleep, so therefore never level up. It makes me wonder: why bother?
Its not just that things become ridiculously hard at high levels (bandits in daedric... there were 2 full sets of Daedric kit in Morrowind and one of the sets essetially required you to kill a plot-central friendly-NPC, in Oblivion, everyone seems to have it once you hit level x.
I liked the way Morrowind did it. Gave me a sense of achievement. You'll never encounter anything that'll be totally insurmountable if you don't stray too far from the tracks, but try storming the last boss at level 1 and you had better be a specially built speedrun orc using incredibly well planned exploits of the game's free-roaming nature.
Having it oblivion's way just makes the sense of progession I love in RPGs melt away. It removes all incentives to level up at all. Oblivion's later campaign sections are actually considerably easier if you just do not sleep, so therefore never level up. It makes me wonder: why bother?
Its not just that things become ridiculously hard at high levels (bandits in daedric... there were 2 full sets of Daedric kit in Morrowind and one of the sets essetially required you to kill a plot-central friendly-NPC, in Oblivion, everyone seems to have it once you hit level x.
I liked the way Morrowind did it. Gave me a sense of achievement. You'll never encounter anything that'll be totally insurmountable if you don't stray too far from the tracks, but try storming the last boss at level 1 and you had better be a specially built speedrun orc using incredibly well planned exploits of the game's free-roaming nature.
When it's done correctly it's not a bad thing. I have a mod for Oblivion that keeps a portion of the leveling intact, so that as you level you see higher level NPCs - but that doesn't eliminate the original ones so that you're seeing nothing but bandits in glass armor. In fact, bandits should NEVER have glass armor (unless it's some rogue guy that has a lot of wealth), because they're friggin' bandits! The leveling system in Oblivion was flawed; but thank God Bethesda has such great mod tools for their PC version.