Poll: Metalcore Hate

[Karhukonna]

I'm a fan of metalcore, but I tend to be extremely picky about the vocalist. If the singer's voice does not please me, I cannot like the band. An example of this is Avenged Sevenfold. Shadows sounds like a whiny kid with a monotone style of singing. My favourite metalcore singer is Jesse Leach, mainly for his performance in early and current Killswitch Engage material.

About the only clean metalcore vocalist I can say I like, is Howard Jones. His cleans are very good.

I always felt that the band moved towards a more traditional style when Jones joined the band. I like his singing, and he even did a good job with "previous singer material", which is something one rarely sees when a band changes singers.

I also just realized what a great thread this is for picking up new bands.

I must say, I like a lot of different sub genres of metal, so I guess I could just say that I like metal in general. I'm particularly fond of guttural vocals, groovy guitars and down right pummeling on those drums. Mm-mmm. But to me, music has to have a melody. If it has melody and interesting themes, and somehow sounds a bit like metal, I'll like it. A lot of genres fit into my personal taste, including metalcore, grindcore, hatecore, groove, trash, melodeath, traditional, classical, power, folk and whatever the hell 3 Inches of Blood fits into.

To get more on topic, I've never personally seen any hate for metalcore, my friends all seem to like it. I guess some of the bands sound too soft, like later All That Remains, Atreyu and some others that don't spring to mind.

For example:
<youtube=U2ua7BcvGmg>

Cheers, I really liked that stuff. Gonna have to look it up later.

Fuck metalsucks.

People who dismiss metalcore as a whole because of bands like Attack Attack! and Miss May I clearly know fuck all about the genre.

They just aren't good musicians. To elaborate, it sounds like they put their anger into the song without bothering to give it much compositional shape. It lacks character and thought.

This is just wrong
How do any of those lack character and thought?

Mathcore is probably the hardest subgenres of metal to play, and it's a subgenre of metalcore.

Metalcore seems to get a lot of hate because it's new-ish and fairly popular,

New?
It's been around almost 20 years.

I'd always kinda lumped it into the generic "screamo" category.

Yeah don't do that. Screamo isn't an umbrella term, it's a specific genre of music and it has nothing to do with metalcore.

I dislike the clean vocals in metalcore, because they sound whiny. The whiny-ness makes them not Metal.

A lot of metalcore doesn't have clean vocals. The old stuff especially.

I like Architects and Every Time I Die. Are they considered metalcore?

I like them.

Yeah, that's metalcore.

I dont even consider a metacore to be a genre. its just a label stupid people made up.

Korn started as nu-metal, went into emo-pop and now is doung dubstep (im not kidding, the latest album is cooperation with skrillex).

Jesus christ there is so much fucking wrong with this post.

Metalcore is a genre. It's hybrid genre. Of metal and hardcore. It exists. It's quite a broad term but it exists and it's distinguishable.

There's no such thing as "emo pop" and Korn were never emo, or pop.

And they're not doing dubstep either. Their latest album was largely electro. But they've never touched dubstep. Jonathan Davis apparently knows nothing about electronic music..

BUt thats the problem, its electronic music. and its the worst kind of electronic music. its almost like trance but more agressive.

and you clearly don't either. Don't go calling people "stupid" if you're ignorant yourself

merde les conneries ici

Pretty much this, 100%.

Also, a bit of an apology if any of you are having trouble following my train of thought. I'm tired and have trouble concentrating right now, so my writing is drifting quite a bit.

 

[AnarchistFish]

And they're not doing dubstep either. Their latest album was largely electro. But they've never touched dubstep. Jonathan Davis apparently knows nothing about electronic music..

BUt thats the problem, its electronic music. and its the worst kind of electronic music. its almost like trance but more agressive.

and you clearly don't either. Don't go calling people "stupid" if you're ignorant yourself

merde les conneries ici

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR-ZBWzxfkI

That's dubstep.

It's got vague dubstep elements. Actually there are better examples on the album of dubstep. Like I said, it's largely electro house.

And judging from what else he said he's calling it dubstep for the wrong reasons anyway.

 

[Thyunda]

And they're not doing dubstep either. Their latest album was largely electro. But they've never touched dubstep. Jonathan Davis apparently knows nothing about electronic music..

BUt thats the problem, its electronic music. and its the worst kind of electronic music. its almost like trance but more agressive.

and you clearly don't either. Don't go calling people "stupid" if you're ignorant yourself

merde les conneries ici

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR-ZBWzxfkI

That's dubstep.

It's got vague dubstep elements. Actually there are better examples on the album of dubstep. Like I said, it's largely electro house.

And judging from what else he said he's calling it dubstep for the wrong reasons anyway.

I really only linked that one because it has my favourite example of dubstep. Or...vague dubstep elements. I like the drive and the...it's not quite rhythm but it's close...of the electro following the guitar.

That sentence had vague dubstep elements.

 

[darthmj94]

I don't like metalcore, it is something that just never connected with me. I have more of a taste for Nu metal, gothic metal, and classic rock, which kind of makes it hard going to high school in Fort Myers. FL. because everywhere you look there is a metalcore band, and those bands have started there own "music revolution" actually stating that "Fort Myers Metalcore will spread all over the world,and sweep away the bullshit metal". I know that this attitude is not the case for everyone into the genera, but I can not sympathies with the lyrics these people bring up either, where I come from ALL of the metalcore bands are filled with rich white people with mommy issues who will belittle you for liking bands like SlipKnot, System Of A Down, Limp Bizkit, and Lacuna Coil(again I know this is not the case for everyone who is into the genera). I don't think screaming, and growling can make up the backbone of your vocals, I don't think a fast tempo is a substitute for a good drum beat, I think a bassist should be more then a guitarist that got stiffed into the position, and if you are going to have a bass, it has to play more then 3 notes. So I guess my distaste for metalcore comes from my experience with local bands.

 

[deathzero021]

I like very few bands with the Metalcore label, most of them not really sounding like your typical Metalcore. For example, Trivium is one of my favorite bands, they often get labeled as Metalcore but they really don't sound like most Metalcore bands at all. They're more a mix of thrash metal and other extreme metals.

However i can't stand bands like Bullet For My Valentine, which isn't even metalcore anymore but still fits the image of metalcore.

Some real metalcore bands i like would be I Killed The Prom Queen, As I Lay Dying and Parkway Drive. These are exceptions for me though, like i said earlier, i don't generally like Metalcore.

Death metal, black metal, symphonic metal and neo-classical metal are more interesting to me.

p.s. also i want to mention that i do like punk and hardcore as well. It's the metalcore group itself that i dont like. it's kinda like grindcore for me, i like the individual parts of it but i dont like it much when its combined for the sake of combining things. Only a few bands can really make good use of fusion genres.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Eh... I'll have to pass on it, nothing I've seen of it appeals to me, probably because I tend to prefer the themes and styles of Power Metal above everything.

 

[winginson]

I really can't get into the whole sub-sub-sub-sub-sub genre thing people do with music. I can barely work with 'Pop' 'Rock' 'Metal' 'Punk' and 'Classical'.

Also I didn't realize Linkin Park actual count as metal. Just seems really wrong.

 

[MisterGobbles]

God I love Protest the Hero. There's an obvious hardcore/punk influence, but you could never just mark them up as metalcore. You just can't. There's too much else there. And I seriously never even thought about the fact that they were forming amidst all this metalcore-getting-popular stuff.

What a perfect band.

Amen.

But yeah, even though they've always stood apart, it can't be said that they didn't come out of that scene. For most of their career, and even still to an extent, it's those kinds of bands that they've had to tour with... either metalcore or emo, since their sound seems to fall somewhere in between (though resembling neither and far superior to both - I'm talking strictly mechanical terms, like heaviness or melodic content). Nowadays though, they can be seen on the road alongside the likes of Black Label Society, or better yet, Propagandhi - so I don't think that's going to be a problem for them much longer. People know what the fuck is up.

Wow, that Defiler band was terrible. Laughed the whole time.

Oh yeah, they mostly tour with the prog metal crowd now, at least in the United States (I saw them with TesseracT, and they recently toured with The Safety Fire and Periphery), so people definitely know what the fuck is up.

Oh, and I've got more. Metalcore fans, defend this shit!




Just kidding, I love actually well done metalcore and obviously I recognize that this crap doesn't represent the whole genre.

But damn is it popular right now. Ugh.

 

[Artemis923]

I completely despise metalcore. As both a black/death metal fan and guitarist, the idea that simple breakdown chugs are "brewtal" is grossly offensive. There is absolutely no technical skill involved in the majority of the genre. In addition, SWEEPING ISN'T THE BE ALL, END ALL OF SOLOS. Sweeping is an effective technique when used correctly; I see a lot of these core guys sweeping their guitars randomly like janitors. There is barely any hint of chord progression or musical aptitude to be found in core.



Is musically inferior to

 

[Ishal]

I completely despise metalcore. As both a black/death metal fan and guitarist, the idea that simple breakdown chugs are "brewtal" is grossly offensive. There is absolutely no technical skill involved in the majority of the genre. In addition, SWEEPING ISN'T THE BE ALL, END ALL OF SOLOS. Sweeping is an effective technique when used correctly; I see a lot of these core guys sweeping their guitars randomly like janitors. There is barely any hint of chord progression or musical aptitude to be found in core.



Is musically inferior to

Well shit, and here I thought I was gonna have to come in here and post Arsis myself... I'm pleasantly surprised someone beat me to it.

I've found lots of black metal musicians to be somewhat sloppy when doing sweeps as well but I've always thought it blended with the scene and tones found in traditional blackmetal. Often they aren't looking for the best tonal quality when they record so it really doesn't matter. I know for a fact many like Ihsahn from Emperor certainly have the skill to tighten up their playing but I think the sloppy messy sound is what many of them are looking for. I could be off base there i dunno..

Edit: As much as I love James Malone I honestly think the drum tracks in any Arsis song are some of the best you'll ever hear in Tech-Death/Death Metal and that is the true awesomeness of Arsis. Its just amazing how well it jives with the rest of the band, it doesn't outpace them or eclipse them, it just fits right in. I see people here talking about mathcore... mathcore is technical deathmetal for dummies. People don't just want to hear full stops and time signature changes anywhere in the song, there is a proper way to do it...

..this is how...

 

[Phuctifyno]

"If you don't lyrics then go listen to Genesis. SEGA! We ain't playing games, *****!"

I'll just go face-palm myself to death. Thanks.

 

[gamernerdtg2]

I don't think screaming, and growling can make up the backbone of your vocals, I don't think a fast tempo is a substitute for a good drum beat, I think a bassist should be more then a guitarist that got stiffed into the position, and if you are going to have a bass, it has to play more then 3 notes. So I guess my distaste for metalcore comes from my experience with local bands.

What so does this mean your actually a musician or something?

So glad someone can articulate this as clearly as you have. Bassists often get the shaft for the exaxt reasons you've mentioned.

 

[darthmj94]

I don't think screaming, and growling can make up the backbone of your vocals, I don't think a fast tempo is a substitute for a good drum beat, I think a bassist should be more then a guitarist that got stiffed into the position, and if you are going to have a bass, it has to play more then 3 notes. So I guess my distaste for metalcore comes from my experience with local bands.

What so does this mean your actually a musician or something?

So glad someone can articulate this as clearly as you have. Bassists often get the shaft for the exaxt reasons you've mentioned.

My experience with music comes from 2 years of music theory classes so I understand enough of terminology to make points. I am also a (somewhat but not entirely) classically trained vocalist, which might explain more of my distaste for screaming/growling, in fact I have tried to scream and growl out of curiosity, and I remember absolutely wrecking my voice for a week.

 

[mitchell271]

About the only clean metalcore vocalist I can say I like, is Howard Jones. His cleans are very good.

What about Matt Heafy?

 

[idon'tknowaboutthat]

Anyway, you like core, whatever. Just as long as you don't go around saying it's any good, then whatever man. That kinda stuff can be a transition into heavier, actual metal, so hopefully that's where you're at.

That's actually the douchiest thing I've read since starting this thread. It's like saying Bella Bartok isn't part of the contemporary movement in Classical or that The Black Album wasn't thrash. Besides, some metalcore is harder than heavy metal (e.g. Parkway Drive is heavier than Iron Maiden).

Hey, your exact wording was, "can somebody explain the hate", and so I did, from my point of view. You don't have to agree with it, but don't ask a question if you don't want an answer. Again, people can listen to whatever they want.

I guess your comment about some metalcore being harder than some older heavy metal is in response to my phrasing of "heavier, actual metal", which I guess that could be interpreted as me saying heavier = better, which isn't what I was trying to say. More like... fuller = better, if you know what I mean. Core comes off as very two-dimensional, very flat, there's no substance to it. You've heard one song, you've heard 'em all. I'll concede that it was painting with a broad brush to say all core is bad, it was a rush of biased internet passion. However, I still maintain that a large majority of it just isn't very good, musically. There's very little talent involved, for the most part. Here and there is some okay stuff, sure. But I mean, Parkway Drive? Come on man, surely you can do better.

Anyways, if we're just diametrically opposed, then I guess that's final. Still you asked, and you received.
Edit: Also, make sure you read the other posts where people explain why core is hated, they do a much better job than I. Read the post under my original post, for example. And stay away from all the ignorance of people saying "Black and death metal are the same thing" or "Black metal doesn't have a melody like core"... man, why is there so much ignorance?

 

[FinalHeart95]

I don't really consider any of the bands I listen to metalcore, but apparently they all fall under progressive metalcore... so yeah. Between the Buried and Me, The Human Abstract, and White Arms of Athena are among my favorite bands, and they were listed by someone above (bonus points for WAOA... I don't know many people who have heard of them).
Personally, I can't listen to an album of growling. Sorry. If I can't find a melody, I simply can't attach to a song, and most "br00tal" metal (being death/black metal) has very little to no melody, at least from personal experience. I appreciate a good rhythm and weird time signatures as much as the next guy, but they can't carry a song.
As far as breakdowns, the bands I listed don't really even have them. My opinion on them is that they're okay if used sparingly, but once you average at least one a song, then things are getting out of hand. See my last paragraph on why this overemphasis on rhythm isn't that appealing to me.
Also, particularly with BTBAM, they experiment with a multitude of genres. On Parallax II, I heard free form jazz (Telos), a variation on 12 bar blues (Bloom) and some just straight-up catchy melodies (Lay Your Ghosts to Rest). Also, on The Great Misdirect, they had a whole 5 minute track based around acoustic guitars. This isn't exactly your typical metalcore band.
[/btbamfanboying]

 

[mitchell271]

[Anyways, if we're just diametrically opposed, then I guess that's final. Still you asked, and you received.

My issue was with the bit I took out. It made it sound like for music to be considered metal, it has to be really heavy. I get that we have different opinions; you like different subgenres than I listen too. But saying I like it I saying it's good isn't a cause for complaint. You don't see me complaining about everyone listening to pop music.

About the transition thing, I do agree with that. It can act as a transition subgenre, but I ended up sticking with it. My favourite Band right now is Trivium and I've been listening to metalcore for about 2 years now. I have expanded into Symphonic, Power, Folk and spatterings of MeloDeath but I don't like the constant howling/growling/screeching of the vocally incomprehensible bands.

 

[idon'tknowaboutthat]

[Anyways, if we're just diametrically opposed, then I guess that's final. Still you asked, and you received.

My issue was with the bit I took out. It made it sound like for music to be considered metal, it has to be really heavy. I get that we have different opinions; you like different subgenres than I listen too. But saying I like it I saying it's good isn't a cause for complaint. You don't see me complaining about everyone listening to pop music.

About the transition thing, I do agree with that. It can act as a transition subgenre, but I ended up sticking with it. My favourite Band right now is Trivium and I've been listening to metalcore for about 2 years now. I have expanded into Symphonic, Power, Folk and spatterings of MeloDeath but I don't like the constant howling/growling/screeching of the vocally incomprehensible bands.

Fair enough. I regret coming down so hard on core, for sure, it's just that a lot of it is crap. You mentioned Trivium, I have no issue with that, I think they're good, I just don't listen to them because it doesn't do anything for me.

I hear the vocals thing too, heard it before and people in this thread have said it. I don't get it, but I hear it. Growling is so fucking powerful, that's what makes it great. That's why we like metal, isn't it, because it's powerful? And death metal doesn't have to be incomprehensible.
TBDM is even kinda melo-death, like you said you liked. Both of these songs are death metal, but (in my opinion) have perfectly comprehensible lyrics.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

There is no such thing as good genres of music. Nor are there bad genres of music. There are only genres you like and those you don't like. Artists you like and those you don't. Anyone who arbitrarily denounces a whole genre simply hasn't looked long enough. Still haven't found one genre that doesn't have at least one artist I like.

That said, metalcore is not my favorite because it has comparatively few artists I like compared to, say, jazz fusion, which has a lot of stuff I enjoy. I do like most mathcore though.