My experience with music comes from 2 years of music theory classes so I understand enough of terminology to make points. I am also a (somewhat but not entirely) classically trained vocalist, which might explain more of my distaste for screaming/growling, in fact I have tried to scream and growl out of curiosity, and I remember absolutely wrecking my voice for a week.gamernerdtg2 said:What so does this mean your actually a musician or something?darthmj94 said:
So glad someone can articulate this as clearly as you have. Bassists often get the shaft for the exaxt reasons you've mentioned.
Poll: Metalcore Hate
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Hey, your exact wording was, "can somebody explain the hate", and so I did, from my point of view. You don't have to agree with it, but don't ask a question if you don't want an answer. Again, people can listen to whatever they want.mitchell271 said:
I guess your comment about some metalcore being harder than some older heavy metal is in response to my phrasing of "heavier, actual metal", which I guess that could be interpreted as me saying heavier = better, which isn't what I was trying to say. More like... fuller = better, if you know what I mean. Core comes off as very two-dimensional, very flat, there's no substance to it. You've heard one song, you've heard 'em all. I'll concede that it was painting with a broad brush to say all core is bad, it was a rush of biased internet passion. However, I still maintain that a large majority of it just isn't very good, musically. There's very little talent involved, for the most part. Here and there is some okay stuff, sure. But I mean, Parkway Drive? Come on man, surely you can do better.
Anyways, if we're just diametrically opposed, then I guess that's final. Still you asked, and you received.
Edit: Also, make sure you read the other posts where people explain why core is hated, they do a much better job than I. Read the post under my original post, for example. And stay away from all the ignorance of people saying "Black and death metal are the same thing" or "Black metal doesn't have a melody like core"... man, why is there so much ignorance?
I don't really consider any of the bands I listen to metalcore, but apparently they all fall under progressive metalcore... so yeah. Between the Buried and Me, The Human Abstract, and White Arms of Athena are among my favorite bands, and they were listed by someone above (bonus points for WAOA... I don't know many people who have heard of them).
Personally, I can't listen to an album of growling. Sorry. If I can't find a melody, I simply can't attach to a song, and most "br00tal" metal (being death/black metal) has very little to no melody, at least from personal experience. I appreciate a good rhythm and weird time signatures as much as the next guy, but they can't carry a song.
As far as breakdowns, the bands I listed don't really even have them. My opinion on them is that they're okay if used sparingly, but once you average at least one a song, then things are getting out of hand. See my last paragraph on why this overemphasis on rhythm isn't that appealing to me.
Also, particularly with BTBAM, they experiment with a multitude of genres. On Parallax II, I heard free form jazz (Telos), a variation on 12 bar blues (Bloom) and some just straight-up catchy melodies (Lay Your Ghosts to Rest). Also, on The Great Misdirect, they had a whole 5 minute track based around acoustic guitars. This isn't exactly your typical metalcore band.
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Personally, I can't listen to an album of growling. Sorry. If I can't find a melody, I simply can't attach to a song, and most "br00tal" metal (being death/black metal) has very little to no melody, at least from personal experience. I appreciate a good rhythm and weird time signatures as much as the next guy, but they can't carry a song.
As far as breakdowns, the bands I listed don't really even have them. My opinion on them is that they're okay if used sparingly, but once you average at least one a song, then things are getting out of hand. See my last paragraph on why this overemphasis on rhythm isn't that appealing to me.
Also, particularly with BTBAM, they experiment with a multitude of genres. On Parallax II, I heard free form jazz (Telos), a variation on 12 bar blues (Bloom) and some just straight-up catchy melodies (Lay Your Ghosts to Rest). Also, on The Great Misdirect, they had a whole 5 minute track based around acoustic guitars. This isn't exactly your typical metalcore band.
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My issue was with the bit I took out. It made it sound like for music to be considered metal, it has to be really heavy. I get that we have different opinions; you like different subgenres than I listen too. But saying I like it I saying it's good isn't a cause for complaint. You don't see me complaining about everyone listening to pop music.idon said:
About the transition thing, I do agree with that. It can act as a transition subgenre, but I ended up sticking with it. My favourite Band right now is Trivium and I've been listening to metalcore for about 2 years now. I have expanded into Symphonic, Power, Folk and spatterings of MeloDeath but I don't like the constant howling/growling/screeching of the vocally incomprehensible bands.
Fair enough. I regret coming down so hard on core, for sure, it's just that a lot of it is crap. You mentioned Trivium, I have no issue with that, I think they're good, I just don't listen to them because it doesn't do anything for me.mitchell271 said:
I hear the vocals thing too, heard it before and people in this thread have said it. I don't get it, but I hear it. Growling is so fucking powerful, that's what makes it great. That's why we like metal, isn't it, because it's powerful? And death metal doesn't have to be incomprehensible.
TBDM is even kinda melo-death, like you said you liked. Both of these songs are death metal, but (in my opinion) have perfectly comprehensible lyrics.
There is no such thing as good genres of music. Nor are there bad genres of music. There are only genres you like and those you don't like. Artists you like and those you don't. Anyone who arbitrarily denounces a whole genre simply hasn't looked long enough. Still haven't found one genre that doesn't have at least one artist I like.
That said, metalcore is not my favorite because it has comparatively few artists I like compared to, say, jazz fusion, which has a lot of stuff I enjoy. I do like most mathcore though.
That said, metalcore is not my favorite because it has comparatively few artists I like compared to, say, jazz fusion, which has a lot of stuff I enjoy. I do like most mathcore though.
The metal culture is sort of like a religion that has had numerous schisms. There is literally a subculture for each subgenre of metal who's members may get along just fine with members of other groups or may view other groups as heretics, and yes I know how strange that sounds in multiple ways.
Live your own life. Listen to the music you want to. Don't worry about what others think of it. Eat your vegetables. And most importantly your music sucks ya fucking heretic.
Live your own life. Listen to the music you want to. Don't worry about what others think of it. Eat your vegetables. And most importantly your music sucks ya fucking heretic.
Enter grindpunk. Or popgrind. Or anything else, really. They're not proper labels, for the folks involved don't give a damn about labels. It's something somebody made up to create a little chest of drawers made of empty cartons that used to contain happy pills.At_The_Gates said:
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Too bad they are no longer actively creating beautiful stuff like that.
I can't stress enough, the progressive stuff is some of the best music out there right now.
EDIT: Realized that more than half of these are "plurals" bands. Totally unintentional.
To me it's kind of a four prong problem that really makes it hard for me to enjoy that subgenre.
1) In a lot of what I've heard there's not much sense of fluidity and that makes the songs really hard to follow.
2) The songs also largely follow the same formula with a clean vocal opening, shouted verses, clean chorus, breakdown, end and while there's nothing inherently wrong with utilizing formulas that work, they do get boring if you're not going to bother using those formulas to experiment with something else. Between the Buried and Me seems to be one of the few bands that falls under this genre tag that actually does this, although I find their stuff falls more into the Mr. Bungle style of experimentation, which is thrown whatever at the wall and see what sticks.
3) The fans. This one is the most personal and interchangeable, and while I'm not going to say all metalcore fans are like this, from my own personal observations at shows and CD stores, they tend to be the most obnoxious and least courteous in the pit. When I was at a Hatebreed show a few years back, I lost track of the amount of time people were purposefully pushed down, which just isn't cool, if you're in a pit and someone falls down, you get them back up, that shouldn't need explaining. Other instances were more of the loud "bro" personality which just made them a joy to be around. Again I just want to reiterate I'm not saying all metalcore fans are like this, but I've seen it enough that I now skip all metalcore shows that roll through town unless one of the opening acts is something that I really want to see.
4) Lastly, it just kind of seems to be this Frankenstein-genre, taking bits and pieces of other genres that are a bit more abrasive and edgy, and making them safe enough to put on a shirt and sell it at the mall. I am aware of how douchey and elitist that sounds and I'm willing to own up to both of those things.
1) In a lot of what I've heard there's not much sense of fluidity and that makes the songs really hard to follow.
2) The songs also largely follow the same formula with a clean vocal opening, shouted verses, clean chorus, breakdown, end and while there's nothing inherently wrong with utilizing formulas that work, they do get boring if you're not going to bother using those formulas to experiment with something else. Between the Buried and Me seems to be one of the few bands that falls under this genre tag that actually does this, although I find their stuff falls more into the Mr. Bungle style of experimentation, which is thrown whatever at the wall and see what sticks.
3) The fans. This one is the most personal and interchangeable, and while I'm not going to say all metalcore fans are like this, from my own personal observations at shows and CD stores, they tend to be the most obnoxious and least courteous in the pit. When I was at a Hatebreed show a few years back, I lost track of the amount of time people were purposefully pushed down, which just isn't cool, if you're in a pit and someone falls down, you get them back up, that shouldn't need explaining. Other instances were more of the loud "bro" personality which just made them a joy to be around. Again I just want to reiterate I'm not saying all metalcore fans are like this, but I've seen it enough that I now skip all metalcore shows that roll through town unless one of the opening acts is something that I really want to see.
4) Lastly, it just kind of seems to be this Frankenstein-genre, taking bits and pieces of other genres that are a bit more abrasive and edgy, and making them safe enough to put on a shirt and sell it at the mall. I am aware of how douchey and elitist that sounds and I'm willing to own up to both of those things.
Nope. I'm more into black metal, drone metal, post-metal, industrial metal and prog metal, personally. And a bit of thrash I guess. That said I do like one metalcore band, Architects. But other than that it's just too formulaic to be interesting to me.
It's interesting that you mention jazz fusion because there are similarities in some of the progressive metal and jazz fusion.chimpzy said:
I really hate to classify music, it's too abstract. It's easier to stick with macro genres like metal and punk and pop or whatever, and then compare bands to similar artists. That's my opinion anyway.
To to the topic at hand however, I will say this much. I'm fairly certain In Flames is considered metalcore. They are easily one of my favorite bands of all time. I love The jester's race album, The mirrors truth and even soundtrack to your escape.
As for nu metal, which seems to be sparking alot of hate as well. I know I like dark new day, specifically twelve year silence. More specifically brother, evergreen, fill me again and follow the sun down. I don't really like korn or any of the other artists I see labeled as nu metal.
I am by no means qualified for making grand, sweeping statements about music genres, or anything of that sort, so instead this is simply my opinions and tastes about what little I know.
To to the topic at hand however, I will say this much. I'm fairly certain In Flames is considered metalcore. They are easily one of my favorite bands of all time. I love The jester's race album, The mirrors truth and even soundtrack to your escape.
As for nu metal, which seems to be sparking alot of hate as well. I know I like dark new day, specifically twelve year silence. More specifically brother, evergreen, fill me again and follow the sun down. I don't really like korn or any of the other artists I see labeled as nu metal.
I am by no means qualified for making grand, sweeping statements about music genres, or anything of that sort, so instead this is simply my opinions and tastes about what little I know.
I have a hard time classifying music. Either way, I love in flames and prefer to judge music per artist.Milk said: