Poll: Miscarriage: A capital offense?

[Haydyn]

It would most likely be used to punish mothers who miscarry through drug or alcohol abuse.

Now THAT sounds like a crime.

Yeah I'd personally say that recklessly endangering your baby's life for hedonistic purposes is a crime, a pretty nasty one at that.

But my main point is that people really need a checklist before they start bashing a law, something like:

1. Do I actually understand this law?
2. Am I living in a comic book? (seriously)
3. What is this law designed to do?
4. Is my source lying? (in this case incidentally it's 'yes'. Well, it's a lie by omission)
5. Do I actually have the political and legal knowledge I need?

Not meaning to be offensive but most people on here simply do not have the training to understand legal thought. That's evident by the fact that the OP doesn't get the difference between one guy proposing a badly worded law and a huge conspiracy to kill women.

1. I don't appreciate you coming in here with a holier than thou attitude and calling me a liar and insulting my competence.

2. Where in that video, exactly, does it say that it's for hedonistic purposes? I gave the information as it's stated in the video, as well as linking to the video in question.

3. I never said it was a conspiracy to kill women, I said what I was told.

4. Saying "No offense, but..." in any sort of conversation does NOT give you license to be an ass.

1. You don't have to appreciate it. I didn't get the feeling that he was acting superior or insulting anyone. He wasn't argeeing with your methods, not dragging you through the dirt.

2. He doesn't say the video says so. Those are his own words.

3. He said you don't get the difference, not that you said it was a conspiracy.

4. He's not being an ass. I think he's coming from a very mature standpoint, while you on the other hand appear to be loosing your cool. Your post appears to highlight the flaws in your character.

 

[DevilWolf47]

Oh good. Nice to see the political situation allows sociopaths and not just narcissists to gain political seats.

WHAT THE FUCK?! Even considering a bill like this is insane. This makes some of the Operation Rescue bullshit seem tame.

 

[Haydyn]

Forcing a miscarriage should be illegal,

Are we talking abortions, or through use of drugs and alcohol that the mother continues to take?

Drugs, alcohol, stairs, coat hanger etc. I don't see getting an abortion as forcing a miscarriage, which sounds odd because that's pretty much what it is.

Do you have to pay to get an abortion in the US? And yeah, I can see the distinction you're making, although I'm not sure if I agree with your point.

I believe so. At least in most cases. I think there are some programs out there that pay for it.

 

[DevilWolf47]

What the...?

Yes, because a Mother really wants to go through the physical and emotional pain of something she cannot control and be punished for it.

This is so stupid, I have no words.

On a posative note; it would never go through and become illegal, no ones that retarded.

Sarah Palin.
Sorry i had to throw a wrench into your "No one is that retarded" stance, but it seems to be a logical conclusion at this time that there is absolutely no limit to how stupid people will become. I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to make flag burning a capital offense, all the while trying to destroy freedom of expression.

 

[La Barata]

It would most likely be used to punish mothers who miscarry through drug or alcohol abuse.

Now THAT sounds like a crime.

Yeah I'd personally say that recklessly endangering your baby's life for hedonistic purposes is a crime, a pretty nasty one at that.

But my main point is that people really need a checklist before they start bashing a law, something like:

1. Do I actually understand this law?
2. Am I living in a comic book? (seriously)
3. What is this law designed to do?
4. Is my source lying? (in this case incidentally it's 'yes'. Well, it's a lie by omission)
5. Do I actually have the political and legal knowledge I need?

Not meaning to be offensive but most people on here simply do not have the training to understand legal thought. That's evident by the fact that the OP doesn't get the difference between one guy proposing a badly worded law and a huge conspiracy to kill women.

1. I don't appreciate you coming in here with a holier than thou attitude and calling me a liar and insulting my competence.

2. Where in that video, exactly, does it say that it's for hedonistic purposes? I gave the information as it's stated in the video, as well as linking to the video in question.

3. I never said it was a conspiracy to kill women, I said what I was told.

4. Saying "No offense, but..." in any sort of conversation does NOT give you license to be an ass.

1. You don't have to appreciate it. I didn't get the feeling that he was acting superior or insulting anyone. He wasn't argeeing with your methods, not dragging you through the dirt.

2. He doesn't say the video says so. Those are his own words.

3. He said you don't get the difference, not that you said it was a conspiracy.

4. He's not being an ass. I think he's coming from a very mature standpoint, while you on the other hand appear to be loosing your cool. Your post appears to highlight the flaws in your character.

The entirety of his post is to come in here and say that I'm a liar, and that I'm not smart enough to understand what's going on. And there is absolutely no call for you to come and begin to insult me. Honestly, there's no reason for it. I made a post asking for honest opinions, and you two come here and begin to insult me with no cause. Please stop, and leave if you have nothing to contribute to the topic.

 

[Orcboyphil]

What the...?

Yes, because a Mother really wants to go through the physical and emotional pain of something she cannot control and be punished for it.

This is so stupid, I have no words.

On a posative note; it would never go through and become illegal, no ones that retarded.

Sarah Palin.
Sorry i had to throw a wrench into your "No one is that retarded" stance, but it seems to be a logical conclusion at this time that there is absolutely no limit to how stupid people will become. I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to make flag burning a capital offense, all the while trying to destroy freedom of expression.

Heck the entire Tea Party are another bunch of wrenchs or should that just be spanners.

 

[Haydyn]

The entirety of his post is to come in here and say that I'm a liar, and that I'm not smart enough to understand what's going on. And there is absolutely no call for you to come and begin to insult me. Honestly, there's no reason for it. I made a post asking for honest opinions, and you two come here and begin to insult me with no cause. Please stop, and leave if you have nothing to contribute to the topic.

Oh, so is disagreeing with you the same as insulting you? We are both contributing to the thread, unlike you, who is now making me wish you were miscarried and your mother went to prison for almost bearing unto the world such a sad child.

Nah, man, I'm just kidding. You're alright.

 

[Twad]

..And people tolerate the republican party when their representatives/supporters say completely insane, baseless, irrational crap like that? Gah, how can educated people actually say such stupid things?

What are they going to come up with next? Periods are a crime? Contraceptive pill use is criminal?

 

[La Barata]

Well shit, my mistake. How could I have possibly been so stupid as to make the typo of putting in an "s". They ought to kill me, too! /sarcasm.

None of that changes in the slightest the fact of you coming in and claiming that everyone other than you is too stupid to grasp the subtle concepts of eating with a fork. This thread is for honest opinions of a current issue, not for coming in here and telling everyone else they're stupid, they're liars and whatever else you keep saying. If you don't feel like that, then please leave, we can get along fine without your shining influence.

I don't appreciate people with no common sense finding a story and posting it online without vetting it and then getting pissy when someone tries to explain it. You mis-stated what you were told and didn't even think it through before posting it, a moment's critical thought would have given you your answers but you got too caught up in feeling outraged to really think this through. I'm not being an ass, I'm trying to help you understand your mistake.

It's obvious you posted this looking for a 'lolrepublican' response but it would have helped if you'd have presented this as what it is. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about and don't think that being the OP and presenting a case as morally right makes you immune to being called out.

It's one person who's well known for being outspoken on this subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Franklin

He has absolutely no political clout and a bill promoted by him is worse than a joke. It's not going to happen but your video doesn't mention that even in the Republican party he's seen as unpalateably opinionated. The whole implication of your post and the video was that this was a legally endorsed attack upon women's rights by the state of Georgia rather than a known firebrand's ranting.

At what point did I say anything to the contrary?
I said three things.
1. This bill is being proposed
2. The guy's from Georgia
3. What the bill is

I posted the link and asked for people's opinions. I tried to have a bit of fun with the poll. I gave no personal opinion (well, again, I may have been slightly overzealous with the poll).

I didn't say anything about the person proposing it, true, but it has no bearing on my simple topic of the fact that this exists, and that someone would legitimately bring it up.

You, however, feel the need to do nothing here but come in here, directly call me a liar and try to raise a shitstorm. I have no idea why you'd do any of this except to troll, and you don't seem the type. I then asked you to kindly leave if you had nothing but insults and attacks to contribute, but you keep coming back.

Again, if you have nothing valid (i.e. OTHER than personal attacks) to contribute, Please leave.

 

[La Barata]

The entirety of his post is to come in here and say that I'm a liar, and that I'm not smart enough to understand what's going on. And there is absolutely no call for you to come and begin to insult me. Honestly, there's no reason for it. I made a post asking for honest opinions, and you two come here and begin to insult me with no cause. Please stop, and leave if you have nothing to contribute to the topic.

Oh, so is disagreeing with you the same as insulting you? We are both contributing to the thread, unlike you, who is now making me wish you were miscarried and your mother went to prison for almost bearing unto the world such a sad child.

Nah, man, I'm just kidding. You're alright.

Simply disagreeing I wouldn't have had a problem with, it was his direct calling me a liar I had a problem with.

 

[loremazd]

It would most likely be used to punish mothers who miscarry through drug or alcohol abuse.

Now THAT sounds like a crime.

Yeah I'd personally say that recklessly endangering your baby's life for hedonistic purposes is a crime, a pretty nasty one at that.

But my main point is that people really need a checklist before they start bashing a law, something like:

1. Do I actually understand this law?
2. Am I living in a comic book? (seriously)
3. What is this law designed to do?
4. Is my source lying? (in this case incidentally it's 'yes'. Well, it's a lie by omission)
5. Do I actually have the political and legal knowledge I need?

Not meaning to be offensive but most people on here simply do not have the training to understand legal thought. That's evident by the fact that the OP doesn't get the difference between one guy proposing a badly worded law and a huge conspiracy to kill women.

1. I don't appreciate you coming in here with a holier than thou attitude and calling me a liar and insulting my competence.

2. Where in that video, exactly, does it say that it's for hedonistic purposes? I gave the information as it's stated in the video, as well as linking to the video in question.

3. I never said it was a conspiracy to kill women, I said what I was told.

4. Saying "No offense, but..." in any sort of conversation does NOT give you license to be an ass.

1. You don't have to appreciate it. I didn't get the feeling that he was acting superior or insulting anyone. He wasn't argeeing with your methods, not dragging you through the dirt.

2. He doesn't say the video says so. Those are his own words.

3. He said you don't get the difference, not that you said it was a conspiracy.

4. He's not being an ass. I think he's coming from a very mature standpoint, while you on the other hand appear to be loosing your cool. Your post appears to highlight the flaws in your character.

The entirety of his post is to come in here and say that I'm a liar, and that I'm not smart enough to understand what's going on. And there is absolutely no call for you to come and begin to insult me. Honestly, there's no reason for it. I made a post asking for honest opinions, and you two come here and begin to insult me with no cause. Please stop, and leave if you have nothing to contribute to the topic.

You made a post asking for honest opinions about something that was exaggerated and misleading. Then someone said, "this is exaggerated and misleading, and you need to look into what topics you post", then you got really defensive and angry. When you screw up and someone says, you screwed up, you dont say "Well pardon me MR PERFECT" You say, sorry about that, let me clarify my point better.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

The entirety of his post is to come in here and say that I'm a liar, and that I'm not smart enough to understand what's going on. And there is absolutely no call for you to come and begin to insult me. Honestly, there's no reason for it. I made a post asking for honest opinions, and you two come here and begin to insult me with no cause. Please stop, and leave if you have nothing to contribute to the topic.

Oh, so is disagreeing with you the same as insulting you? We are both contributing to the thread, unlike you, who is now making me wish you were miscarried and your mother went to prison for almost bearing unto the world such a sad child.

Nah, man, I'm just kidding. You're alright.

Simply disagreeing I wouldn't have had a problem with, it was his direct calling me a liar I had a problem with.

He was calling your source a liar. Not you. You really shouldn't jump down people's throats like that. They were simply stating their opinions.

 

[loremazd]

As for my opinion: Crazy guy is crazy, and crazy bill is crazy, and crazy bill has a snowballs chance in hell of being supported by anyone who doesn't want to commit political suicide.

 

[8bitlove2a03]

First off, this is obviously a hype video. OP, if possible please link a better article or video that actually gives an explanation of the bill, rather than simply two people going "blarg evil honk blarg republicans blarg honk".

Secondly, the bill itself [http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20112012/108128.pdf] says (in regards to prenatal murder) that "Such term does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human involvement whatsoever in the causation of such event."

Thirdly, the intent of the bill is anti-abortion (with the usual anti-race suicide undertones). The intent is to criminalize abortion in all forms, which includes inducing a miscarriage. It does not criminalize a natural miscarriage, though I can definitely see the potential for abusive enforcement of the bill should it become law.


These things said, I would like everyone to read controversial bills, stop watching hype media, pay better attention to what is actually happening before forming/slinging their opinions around.

Love,
-8bit

 

[MrGalactus]

This is just people taking the sacred fetus thing TOO FAR! It's fine to be against abortion, I can understand that, but these people have gone nuts over it.

 

[thecoreyhlltt]

whoever the 8 people are that voted yes, should be banned from this site and sterilized.

What this really comes down to is republicans and tea-party members wanting to overturn roe v. wade

 

[superbatranger]

What the...?

Yes, because a Mother really wants to go through the physical and emotional pain of something she cannot control and be punished for it.

This is so stupid, I have no words.

On a posative note; it would never go through and become illegal, no ones that retarded.

Perhaps they're talking about mothers who purposefully induce miscarriages.

 

[8bitlove2a03]

What the...?

Yes, because a Mother really wants to go through the physical and emotional pain of something she cannot control and be punished for it.

This is so stupid, I have no words.

On a posative note; it would never go through and become illegal, no ones that retarded.

Perhaps they're talking about mothers who purposefully induce miscarriages.

They are. Read my post above.

 

[FamoFunk]

What the...?

Yes, because a Mother really wants to go through the physical and emotional pain of something she cannot control and be punished for it.

This is so stupid, I have no words.

On a posative note; it would never go through and become illegal, no ones that retarded.

Perhaps they're talking about mothers who purposefully induce miscarriages.

What the...?

Yes, because a Mother really wants to go through the physical and emotional pain of something she cannot control and be punished for it.

This is so stupid, I have no words.

On a posative note; it would never go through and become illegal, no ones that retarded.

Perhaps they're talking about mothers who purposefully induce miscarriages.

They are. Read my post above.

This is for both of you.

Where do you draw the line though, what if someone didn't know they were pregnant for, say 14 weeks, (this is more commen than you think) and got so drunk every weekend she lost the baby?

She'll be accused of killing something she never knew she had.

 

[dragontiers]

First off, this is obviously a hype video. OP, if possible please link a better article or video that actually gives an explanation of the bill, rather than simply two people going "blarg evil honk blarg republicans blarg honk".

Secondly, the bill itself [http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20112012/108128.pdf] says (in regards to prenatal murder) that "Such term does not include a naturally occurring expulsion of a fetus known medically as a 'spontaneous abortion' and popularly as a 'miscarriage' so long as there is no human involvement whatsoever in the causation of such event."

Thirdly, the intent of the bill is anti-abortion (with the usual anti-race suicide undertones). The intent is to criminalize abortion in all forms, which includes inducing a miscarriage. It does not criminalize a natural miscarriage, though I can definitely see the potential for abusive enforcement of the bill should it become law.


These things said, I would like everyone to read controversial bills, stop watching hype media, pay better attention to what is actually happening before forming/slinging their opinions around.

Love,
-8bit

Thank you very much for finding the actual bill itself for us to read, and pointing out what it specifically says on the issues raised here. I am very glad someone was able to find the source so that it might be discussed rationally.

As to the contents of the bill itself, I don't believe it has a chance of passing. While it does raise some interesting legal arguments as to the rights of the states vs the federal government, as well as the official jurisdiction of the supreme court, I am unsure of the actual validity of their arguments as I am not well versed in these legal matters. Additionally, it claims "The General Assembly knows the answer to that difficult question, and that answer is life begins at the moment of conception;", a statement on which many people disagree, likely even people in said assembly. I don't believe there will be a consensus on the subject any time soon.