Poll: Muslim female "gang" beat up English women, but not jailed

[Zersy]

SNIP

I'm a Muslim and think this is absolutely appalling. Those 3 women should be jailed or at least fined a great deal.Religion should not be a factor, they committed a crime they should do the sentence.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

SNIP

I'm a Muslim and think this is absolutely appalling. Those 3 women should be jailed or at least fined a great deal.Religion should not be a factor, they committed a crime they should do the sentence.

Shhhh, you'll make people question their belief that all Muslims are religious fanatics who try to force their religion on others.

We can't have impartiality and fairness now, can we.

 

[Zersy]

SNIP

I'm a Muslim and think this is absolutely appalling. Those 3 women should be jailed or at least fined a great deal.Religion should not be a factor, they committed a crime they should do the sentence.

Shhhh, you'll make people question their belief that all Muslims are religious fanatics who try to force their religion on others.

We can't have impartiality and fairness now, can we.

I see what you did there. Cleverly funny.

 

[gigastrike]

They got off scott-free because they were drunk!? Give me a beer and a rifle, I've got some stuff I wanna do!

No seriously, this is stupid. You can't be held above the law just because it's your first time being drunk.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Well, as long as they get stoned for braking their holy law afterwards it's all fair!


But no, seriously, they're making the case of that crazy Swedish MW2 killer for him. I won't be surprised if his lawyers cite this case for reasons that society lead him to shoot those 90some kids that were minding their own business.

 

[Comando96]

:O

... :O

This... needs to be refereed to a higher court! That is bullshit... appeal to a higher court to get a proper sentencing... That is the shittest excuse I've ever heard.

If you crashed a car but it was due to inexperience, but you'd hit people you would not receive lenience....

 

[Mike Fang]

If the article is accurate, I'd say this shows that England, like other countries, has problems with political correctness, as do other courts in other countries. What those girls did deserved punishment, but unfortunately the judge was more concerned about public perception on bias against Muslims. But he sidestepped a pothole to fall of the bridge and made it look like there's bias FOR Muslims instead. Really there's no excuse for what they did; they can be as inexperienced with drinking as they want, but that doesn't justify them attacking a person. Maybe it could be taken into consideration for sentencing, but not outright suspending their sentence. I think this serves as an example that there's a difference between equal rights and showing minorities preferential treatment.

 

[minnull]

I am a Muslim. I am not a racist and I am pretty popular where I live (NYC). Keep in mind that most Muslims have spent their lives in a dictator ruled country for their entire life and their children who are growing up in your neighborhoods are also being raised by those same people. Those people, from my direct experience, are good people but very closed minded to outside influence (as is anyone's style when you grow up in a country under strict law). I happen to be a second generation Muslim Arab and my family and I are very happy here and get along with our neighbors swimmingly. To keep blaming a race (or in this case a faith) of people as the problem you should realize that as a species through out history, we have been in this situation again and again.

Foreign Entity comes or takes over land
Met with strong resistance
Clashing occurs
Propaganda increases
Everyone forgets and moves on

The nationalism in the Middle East also keeps each Middle Eastern Country very divided from each other. A Yemenie family would not befriend an Egyptian family because they are raised to believe that each area is superior to the other and to look the other way. Is this a flaw of the Muslim faith? Absolutely not. These are controlled governments that suppress their populous to maintain a strong grip on power.

Violence is not an Islamic trait, it is a human trait.

 

[Vykrel]

ive never drank alcohol a day in my life, but i bet if i did and then assaulted someone, i would be put in jail.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I am a Muslim. I am not a racist and I am pretty popular where I live (NYC). Keep in mind that most Muslims have spent their lives in a dictator ruled country for their entire life and their children who are growing up in your neighborhoods are also being raised by those same people. Those people, from my direct experience, are good people but very closed minded to outside influence (as is anyone's style when you grow up in a country under strict law). I happen to be a second generation Muslim Arab and my family and I are very happy here and get along with our neighbors swimmingly. To keep blaming a race (or in this case a faith) of people as the problem you should realize that as a species through out history, we have been in this situation again and again.

Foreign Entity comes or takes over land
Met with strong resistance
Clashing occurs
Propaganda increases
Everyone forgets and moves on

The nationalism in the Middle East also keeps each Middle Eastern Country very divided from each other. A Yemenie family would not befriend an Egyptian family because they are raised to believe that each area is superior to the other and to look the other way. Is this a flaw of the Muslim faith? Absolutely not. These are controlled governments that suppress their populous to maintain a strong grip on power.

Violence is not an Islamic trait, it is a human trait.

The pure faith itself is not at fault no but how do you think those governments do all this controlling? It is through the faith itself! An idea is never harmful, what you decide to do with it is the problem.


That's the issue , while violence is a human trait, humans would still be monkeys if they hadn't developed culture that shuns violence as much as possible or at least knows how to sublimate the need for it to maintain high levels of function and progress within it. Sadly, the Islamic world doesn't seem as capable to achieve such feats due to it's baggage. This isn't racist or nationalistic or anything else, it's merely factual and scientific.

Cultures that learned to channel their frustrations and anger into creative processes such as composing music or creating art did see more progress for an actual reason, it wasn't by chance.

 

[Gazoinks]

The whole thing reeks of fake or blown up by the Daily Mail, but I will say this...

So, as the title states, England (or to be specific English court/judges), what the hell? How does the excuse "the women were not used to being drunk [because] [t]he Koran prohibits Muslims from consuming alcohol" sound logical? What does it matter what religion the accused practice? What about you escapist, what do you think about the situation?

I think we shouldn't trust the Daily Mail. Reading the article, it says that that was brought up in their defence. It also says:

"But he said he accepted the women may have felt they were the victims of unreasonable force from Mr Moore as he tried to defend his girlfriend, and handed the defendants a suspended sentence."

Looks to me like the Daily Mail is doing its best to imply that was what got them off, without actually saying it, in order to get more copies by provoking racism.

how can that be racist, their defense was because of Islam, not because of their race/ethnicity

I see them wearing make up and not covering their hair.

They obviously dont follow Islam, so it should not be a valid defense for them.

Gwah? If you don't adhere to all tenants [of a particular interpretation] of a given religion you aren't religious?

Well, I wouldnt say you arent religious, you just dont follow that particular religion.

Explain to me why someone should have the right to pray during work hours because his holy book tells him too, although his holy book also tells him not to drink, eat certain food, sleep with women he is not married to, not to shake a womens hand, not waste his time with trivial things such as video games or movies, and he ignores all of that.

Dont even start with the interpretation bullshit. "Oh, it says right here that a woman who dishonors her family should be killed, but what it really means is women are wonderful beings and the world is a super happy fun time!"

So, uh, do you never mix wool and linen clothes, never eat shellfish, never mix plants in the same garden/field, and run away from women within a week of their period? Because it says to do so in the Bible, so you're not a Christian if you don't. At least according to your logic.

I don't particularly want to get wrapped up in this discussion, but I just wanted to throw that out there.

EDIT: Just realized this is my first post even though I've had this account for a while. Not the greatest way to make an entrance... Ah well. Posting time!

 

[Versuvius]

There would be a glorious shitstorm if it was white people beating up a muslim screaming "terrorist". I swear some Judges must have shrapnel lodged in their heads.

 

[4173]

The whole thing reeks of fake or blown up by the Daily Mail, but I will say this...

So, as the title states, England (or to be specific English court/judges), what the hell? How does the excuse "the women were not used to being drunk [because] [t]he Koran prohibits Muslims from consuming alcohol" sound logical? What does it matter what religion the accused practice? What about you escapist, what do you think about the situation?

I think we shouldn't trust the Daily Mail. Reading the article, it says that that was brought up in their defence. It also says:

"But he said he accepted the women may have felt they were the victims of unreasonable force from Mr Moore as he tried to defend his girlfriend, and handed the defendants a suspended sentence."

Looks to me like the Daily Mail is doing its best to imply that was what got them off, without actually saying it, in order to get more copies by provoking racism.

how can that be racist, their defense was because of Islam, not because of their race/ethnicity

I see them wearing make up and not covering their hair.

They obviously dont follow Islam, so it should not be a valid defense for them.

Gwah? If you don't adhere to all tenants [of a particular interpretation] of a given religion you aren't religious?

Well, I wouldnt say you arent religious, you just dont follow that particular religion.

Explain to me why someone should have the right to pray during work hours because his holy book tells him too, although his holy book also tells him not to drink, eat certain food, sleep with women he is not married to, not to shake a womens hand, not waste his time with trivial things such as video games or movies, and he ignores all of that.

Dont even start with the interpretation bullshit. "Oh, it says right here that a woman who dishonors her family should be killed, but what it really means is women are wonderful beings and the world is a super happy fun time!"

Not interpretation like that. Interpretation as in "well, that section is bullshit, but this other section is pretty nifty." The book doesn't necessarily need to be the be all and end all of a religion.

But no, I don't really have an answer for any specific question; with any belief system an outsider can come by and say it's all arbitrary gibberish. I doubt either of us wants to try to hammer out what reasonable accommodation means, it is too context dependent.

Of course in this case the ruling is stupid. Abstaining from booze because of religion is no different than abstaining because of age or anything else. It isn't a defense, but that doesn't mean the girls hadn't been following their version of Islam. (or for that matter, that breaking a rule precludes being of that religion. I can't speak specifically of Islam, but human weakness/sin/redemption/atonement/forgiveness etc. aren't uncommon themes in religions.)

 

[Daverson]

....Yeah......

The Daily Mail and the Sun would blame winter on Islam if they could.

This is what it must feel like when a doctor is sorrounded by people who are talking about medicine, when they have no fucking clue what the hell they're on about.

As a law & criminology graduate, the amount of ignorance and outright bigotry in this thread disgusts me.

Well point out examples of ignorance and bigotry then, otherwise you're just trolling.

I can do that and I'm not even a law & criminology graduate, hell, closest I've got is watching crime drama! =D

Let's see, posts 35, 55, 58, 66 and 69 (heh). Probably others too, but I just skimmed through tbh!

 

[Therumancer]

So I was on another forum and somebody brought up this article about a group of girls that apparently went up to another girl and proceed to beat the crap out of her until the police came. The victim claims that,

"We were just minding our own business but they kept shouting ?white *****? and ?white slag? at me. When I turned around one of them grabbed my hair then threw me on the ground.
?They were taking turns to kick me over and over. I thought they were going to kill me."


However when it came to sentencing the "girl gang", the article states that:

"Ambaro Maxamed, 24, students Ayan Maxamed, 28, and Hibo Maxamed, 24, and their 28-year-old cousin Ifrah Nur each admitted actual bodily harm, which carries a maximum sentence of five years? imprisonment.

But Judge Robert Brown gave them suspended jail terms after hearing mitigation that as Muslims, the women were not used to being drunk. The Koran prohibits Muslims from consuming alcohol, although Islamic teachings permit its use for medicinal purposes".

So, as the title states, England (or to be specific English court/judges), what the hell? How does the excuse "the women were not used to being drunk [because] [t]he Koran prohibits Muslims from consuming alcohol" sound logical? What does it matter what religion the accused practice? What about you escapist, what do you think about the situation?

Here is the article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070562/Muslim-girl-gang-kicked-Rhea-Page-head-yelling-kill-white-slag-FREED.html

EDIT: People have asked to see other sites that have reported this, so here you go:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8938468/Attack-on-Rhea-Page-captured-on-CCTV-in-Leicester.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3981429/Muslim-girl-gang-who-kicked-woman-in-head-freed-after-court-hears-they-were-not-used-to-drinking.html

http://www.carbonated.tv/blogs/judge-frees-muslim-girls-who-beat-up-woman-after-hearing-they-are-not-used-to-being-drunk-video

http://www.anorak.co.uk/304408/news/sun-telegraph-and-daily-mail-use-rhea-pages-attackers-to-bash-muslims-with-dishonest-reporting.html/

My immediate guess would be fear of Muslim riots, especially after the last round of riots. Treating the crime seriously could bring a lot of issues to a head.

I happen to think this ruling is dead wrong, if anything being drunk makes the crime worse (and not being used to alcohol is not an excuse in any way, shape, or form).

It will be interesting to see what happens in the long term. After such an epic fail among the system if I was the victim's family (such as the big brother) I'd be definatly looking to see justice done outside of the system. Girls or not, if someone in the victim's family (or multiple someones) was to go beat the girls responsible up pretty badly in retaliation I don't think the system could take the moral high ground in enforcing the law there because it did indeed have it's chance and this should be a pretty cut and dry thing.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

Ugh. I'm Jewish and that's like me getting off of murder by saying "I killed that hooker because I'm not used to eating pork. I mean, what the hell?

Pretty sure pork doesn't have the same effect on people that alcohol does, even in large quantities

Speak for yourself, many's the time I've woken up with a thousand dwarves attacking the inside of my skull with their hammers, and thought to myself, "MAN, I shouldn't have ate those ribs last night".

 

[Burn2Feel]

Brilliant how most opinions change when the Mail is mentioned.

OT: it's the same reason why police get so much hassle for arresting a minority; racism is illegal and even if you are following the law then doing a certain action could offend a belief or custom which could explode into something else. I just hope that even if they were let off, the people responsible for them will give them due punishment. Otherwise, they can just go to jail just like the rest of the country. Religion does not grant you any special rights in the eyes of the law at all, I don't see why the Muslim family down the road should be able to get away with things that would give me a lifesentence as a Roman Catholic, equality doesn't work that way.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Aahahha, you're reading way too much into it

No, I'm addressing exactly what you said. You made several statements with nothing to back them up, which I personally believe to be the highest grade of bullshit. To whit;

1) Muslims are more racist than anyone else
2) Muslims can get away with being racist because of their religion
3) You see Europe as so fully dominated by Muslims that you refer to it as "Eurabia"

All I did was ask you if you had any way to support these claims. If, like you suggest, all three are true then finding proof would be an easy task, no?

get a life.

I have one, and it's pretty good. Thankyou for your concern!

Governments are just sucking up to them and bending backwards to get fucked by them while screwing their own people.

Once again, can you please provide citations for this claim? As a citizen of the United Kingdom, in no way do I feel that Islamic residents of my nation are given any preferential treatment over myself that members of other religions do not get. If I were to tell people that I heard voices in my head, and that these voices told me to wrap women in fabric or to eat wafers which are symbolically the flesh of a long-dead arab, I'd be sectioned. If I say that Allah or God is telling me these things I get a free pass for my madness. That is unfair, but at least it's equally unfair; religion in general is given leeway, not Islam in particular.

And the muslims i refer to are the ones in Europe. Whom are in vast majority arab or african. Ive observed them my entire life and they are the biggest bigots and racists ever to taint Europe. Nobody even comes close.

Yet again, proof please? Beyond anecdotal evidence ("I saw this black guy, right? He was probably a Muslim. He said something racist, ergo all Muslims are racist") do you have anything that would actually convince me that Muslims are more racist than anyone else? Having spent two years as a non-religious white guy living opposite a mosque and experiencing absolutely zero racial prejudice from anyone in the area, I find your claims to be at best suspicious and at worst complete and total bullshit that you're using to try and justify your own prejudices.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

So I was on another forum and somebody brought up this article about a group of girls that apparently went up to another girl and proceed to beat the crap out of her until the police came. The victim claims that,

"We were just minding our own business but they kept shouting ?white *****? and ?white slag? at me. When I turned around one of them grabbed my hair then threw me on the ground.
?They were taking turns to kick me over and over. I thought they were going to kill me."


However when it came to sentencing the "girl gang", the article states that:

"Ambaro Maxamed, 24, students Ayan Maxamed, 28, and Hibo Maxamed, 24, and their 28-year-old cousin Ifrah Nur each admitted actual bodily harm, which carries a maximum sentence of five years? imprisonment.

But Judge Robert Brown gave them suspended jail terms after hearing mitigation that as Muslims, the women were not used to being drunk. The Koran prohibits Muslims from consuming alcohol, although Islamic teachings permit its use for medicinal purposes".

So, as the title states, England (or to be specific English court/judges), what the hell? How does the excuse "the women were not used to being drunk [because] [t]he Koran prohibits Muslims from consuming alcohol" sound logical? What does it matter what religion the accused practice? What about you escapist, what do you think about the situation?

*sigh*

Normally, I'm the one who plays Devil's Advocate for the group being subjected to knee-jerk responses to an oversimplified situation, but...Christ, this is just shameful. Might as well just go through the 'highlights' of the article:

He said he accepted the women may have felt they were the victims of unreasonable force from Rhea's partner Lewis Moore, 23, who tried desperately to defend her from the attack.

"Unreasonable force"? They should be thanking God every night that they happened to encounter the one boyfriend whose sense of chivalry was strong enough that he refrained from sending the four of them to the morgue, or at least started breaking fingers.

Nur, who joined in the attack after initially acting as a peacemaker, said it was in fact the victim's partner who had been racially abusive, but Mr Bide-Thomas said that was not accepted by the prosecution.

Yeah. Probably because they wouldn't look very good if their defense was "A guy said something that might've been racist, so we brutally beat the nearest woman while ignoring him."

"They're Somalian Muslims and alcohol or drugs isn't something they're used to."

*facepalm*

Alright, England, here's a train of thought that, against all reason, America managed to work out and you didn't: you are fully responsible for your actions under any form of intoxicating substance. There are only two exceptions to this. If you were, quite simply, drugged, as was the case with one man and PCP, you are not accountable for your actions, and that only works with really hard stuff. The other is if you were given improper medication from a licensed medial practitioner.

But seriously? How is this a valid defense? Ignoring the above logic, and despite what all those PSAs would have you believe, alcohol isn't a drink that turns good people into demons. If you commit a brutal act of racial violence, I don't buy for one second that it was all alcohol at work.

Besides, Islam forbids alcohol, right? Then why the hell were they drinking? That's not some minor, unheeded passage, either. I don't buy that you're "unused" to alcohol if you have enough disregard for your religion to be wandering the streets violently drunk.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

This is what it must feel like when a doctor is sorrounded by people who are talking about medicine, when they have no fucking clue what the hell they're on about.

As a law & criminology graduate, the amount of ignorance and outright bigotry in this thread disgusts me.

Well point out examples of ignorance and bigotry then, otherwise you're just trolling.

Well let's see.

We've got posters who have no knowledge of the law whatsoever, claiming that the 'gang' members got off light for not being jailed, when in fact, it's very rare for someone to be jailed for Actual Bodily Harm, regardless of whether they're brown or not.

We've got people using anecdotal stories of Muslims acting one way and use it as 'proof' to generalise the entire group.

And then there's just outright bollocks like 'if it were the other way around, they would have gotten a worse punishment'.

Nonsense.

Edit: Oh look, there's one right below this post.